National deer management plan.

[Oldbloke]

For those interested. Written by DPI S.A.
The plan appears to be eliminate them.

https://feraldeerplan.org.au/wp-content ... 023-28.pdf

https://feraldeerplan.org.au/

[JohnV]

Off course , that's just par for the course in trying to wipe out hunting opportunities and thereby reduce the need for guns .
They will spend millions wiping out an industry that makes millions and creates many jobs . Logging industry almost gone , wild fires out of control , rabbit fur industry gone , fox fur industry gone , Australia has the economic potential to be a G8 country but it never will be with the nuts that run the show and the lunatics they listen to . Mexico has a GDP only just under Australia ? How can a small country like Italy be number 8 GDP in the World compared to Australia at 13 ? We are stagnating and environmental and green policies are a big part of the cause . A lot of foreign influence is also present . The EU , China and USA do not want us to get bigger economically , they want us dependent on them .

[bigrich]

Off course , that's just par for the course in trying to wipe out hunting opportunities and thereby reduce the need for guns .
They will spend millions wiping out an industry that makes millions and creates many jobs . Logging industry almost gone , wild fires out of control , rabbit fur industry gone , fox fur industry gone , Australia has the economic potential to be a G8 country but it never will be with the nuts that run the show and the lunatics they listen to . Mexico has a GDP only just under Australia ? How can a small country like Italy be number 8 GDP in the World compared to Australia at 13 ? We are stagnating and environmental and green policies are a big part of the cause . A lot of foreign influence is also present . The EU , China and USA do not want us to get bigger economically , they want us dependent on them .

well said

[Wapiti]

Those of us hunters who are aware of, for example, the problems that were experienced in NZ after deer (and other mammals) were introduced there in the mid to late 1800's, can see why this plan has been formulated and is being pushed as the only way to avoid the same thing happening here. Because it can.
Basically, what occurred was that deer were introduced to bring some of the "old country" to a newly settled land, and initially it was restricted to the gentry (the rich, the entitled), with a focus on hunters and hunting as a drawcard for tourism.
Initially, in certain areas (like the Otago, for example) due to a combination of climate, feed type and availability, the deer genetics developed to unimagined levels, with heads 40 plus inches long and 40 plus wide with 16/18/ even more points were commonplace. Genetics that were never imagined from the introduced herd's Scottish roots.
Great idea however over time, the animal numbers exploded to the point that the forests were stripped bare, thousands upon thousands to animals died of starvation, and animal genetics took a terrible downturn.
From the 1920's, the government instigated a "cull" policy, and employed deer hunters to try and control numbers. This went on for a long time. Eventually it was realised that this had been a failure, and helicopter shooting industry flourished. With the animals meat value increasing, to a point that running helicopters could be financially viable and offset costs and make a profitable business.
Those who want to learn more, and how it can (and will, happen here if not managed properly) should look up a couple of books on the subject, written by people who were there, who love deer and are passionate about hunting. Look up "Deer, the NZ story", by David Yerex, and "Hurricane Tim", by Neville Peat, the story about Tim Wallis who saw what was happening to destroy deer and hunting in NZ and set up the Alpine Helicopters company which operates huge business today. We have friends on Tim's incredibly successful deer business, Minaret Station, and have spent time chasing the deer on his place and over the alps to the west, and have just come back from two weeks there researching the deer for our own interest, including the meat gathering and the trophy hunting industry.

To us, the problem is that there is too much emotion, and too little knowledge from the university educated (can only call them inexperienced "greenies") that are in positions to promote plans like this, without exploring all useful avenues to avoid the same thing happening here.
Of course, there is another issue at play... the gradual demonising of hunting and firearm ownership by socialists that are intent on eventually, gradually, taking away firearms from the "little people", for future control ideals. This gets in the way of informed discussion and proper management.

The hunting and gathering psyche and culture there in NZ is different to here... Hunting for meat amongst people there is fairly accepted, deer are seen as a viable protein source that many eat everyday and that is going to be the principle difference as to whether this is managed properly here.
So much land is available for hunters, not just private sheep grazing country where permission for access is needed, some can be hard country.
Friends of ours there will just go for a walk after work to try and get some venison for the family, and hate the idea of buying it from the supermarkets.

We need to open up more government land, State Forests and National Parks in all states for hunters, and promote the beautiful healthy protein from these animals to be more mainstream food. This can be achieved before the same thing that happened there, occurs here.
Anyone wanting a discussion here, feel free to do so.

I've cut and pasted the summary from the plan below, read through it and imagine the possibilities, and also the impossibilities that the below is the only answer:

This plan applies at the
national level, to guide policy,
strategy and planning to
manage feral deer impacts
in Australia.
For the purpose of this plan, feral deer control
promotes highly experienced ground and aerial
shooters, and commercial harvesters undertaking
culling activities as part of integrated pest animal
control programs. The most important attribute of
a feral deer control program is the timely removal
of enough feral deer to reduce impacts and
sustainability of feral deer populations.
A note on recreational hunting
Feral deer are a game animal in some jurisdictions,
where hunting opportunities are a pastime, hobby,
sport or for consumption of meat.
Feral deer densities and distribution across much
of Australia are increasing, and recreational hunting
programs are not containing feral deer or reducing
feral deer population growth. Recreational hunting
as a component of ground culling removes some
feral deer but on its own, it has been shown to have
little impact on population growth, and additional
tools are required.
This plan highlights opportunities for recreational
hunters and sporting shooters to support feral deer
control programs as a component of ground culling
if programs adopt the following principles:
• prioritising the removal of female feral deer,
• focusing efforts where feral deer are destroying
ecosystems, threatening biosecurity, primary
industries or social amenity,
• hunting feral deer at night with spotlights,
• removing more feral deer than the number
that are born,
• coordinating efforts across property boundaries,
• using equipment that can increase the efficiency
of culling programs (e.g. thermal or night vision
optics and suppressors, as licensed and if
permitted by legislation).
This plan uses the term recreational hunting
when referring to ad-hoc hunting at small property
scales, for purposes of harvesting trophies or meat.
It uses the term ground culling when referring to
shooting services (paid or unpaid) that are specifically
designed and evaluated to reduce more than the
feral deer population recruitment rate each year
over a large area. The latter programs do not involve
harvesting meat or antlers for personal use (as these
are components of recreation hunting).

[Tassiebloke]

i'm gonna bet it'll be something like this : https://rabbitfreeaustralia.org.au/plan/
i just did a little bit of maths, and 200 million rounds of 22lr for 200 million rabbits (minus rifles, scopes, magazines etc) would cost (give or take) 40 million dollars. now i know that they would try and poison them out (even though that would make things worse for native animals as well) but it just puts it into perspective. nobody's ever gonna get rid of every single rabbit in this country without destroying everything else along with it. same with deer. i'm not convinced that any amount of aerial shooting will change that. and their point of "recreational deer hunters aren't making enough impact" is complete bulls**t in my view. here's something to think about: about 120,000 deer were harvested last year, of a population of around 1 million. that is well over 10% of the population. 10% of the human population in this planet would be around 800,000,000, which is the population of Russia, America, Brazil and the UK all put together. if that's not a significant dent then i don't know what is. some people just have no idea how difficult and damaging it would be to remove every single feral animal in the country.
anyway, that's just my $0.02

[Oldbloke]

Tassiebloke is right. A lot of deer are taken by hunters.


"A note on recreational hunting
Feral deer are a game animal in some jurisdictions,
where hunting opportunities are a pastime, hobby,
sport or for consumption of meat.
Feral deer densities and distribution across much
of Australia are increasing, and recreational hunting
programs are not containing feral deer or reducing
feral deer population growth. Recreational hunting
as a component of ground culling removes some
feral deer but on its own, it has been shown to have
little impact on population growth, and additional
tools are required"

Well, actually that is the governments own fault. They are the ones that stop us from hunting on the bulk of our crown land.

Most states have vertually no crown land available for hunting.

Vic and NSW currently have the most crown land available for hunting.

But Vic gov has announced more NPs a couple of years ago, further reducing places to hunt but create breeding grounds for ferals. Then wonder why ferals are out of control. FMD.

[bladeracer]

Two property owners have asked me to try to remove the fallow deer from their properties. I just don't see it being possible as they butt up to national park, and the deer very clearly come across the fences from there. To eradicate the deer they would need to erect fences tall enough to keep them out, maintain them, and repair them every time a tree falls across them, in very difficult terrain. The _only_ way I can see them eradicating their deer problem is for the government to eradicate the deer in the national park, or forcing the national parks to erect proper fencing to keep their feral animals inside them.

[Oldbloke]

Two property owners have asked me to try to remove the fallow deer from their properties. I just don't see it being possible as they butt up to national park, and the deer very clearly come across the fences from there. To eradicate the deer they would need to erect fences tall enough to keep them out, maintain them, and repair them every time a tree falls across them, in very difficult terrain. The _only_ way I can see them eradicating their deer problem is for the government to eradicate the deer in the national park, or forcing the national parks to erect proper fencing to keep their feral animals inside them.

Yep, but you obviously can shoot once they jump the fence

[Oldbloke]

Interesting thing, is farmers are required by law to manage weeds and ferals. But you dont see the Gov setting an example in SF and NPs.

[bladeracer]

Two property owners have asked me to try to remove the fallow deer from their properties. I just don't see it being possible as they butt up to national park, and the deer very clearly come across the fences from there. To eradicate the deer they would need to erect fences tall enough to keep them out, maintain them, and repair them every time a tree falls across them, in very difficult terrain. The _only_ way I can see them eradicating their deer problem is for the government to eradicate the deer in the national park, or forcing the national parks to erect proper fencing to keep their feral animals inside them.

Yep, but you obviously can shoot once they jump the fence

Yes, but it's more a matter of them fleeing back over the fence when they spot me, before I have a shot
And it's proving very difficult to get shots at them along the boundary without shooting toward the Park due to the terrain.

[bladeracer]

Interesting thing, is farmers are required by law to manage weeds and ferals. But you don't see the Gov setting an example in SF and NPs.

It's high time land owners took them to task over this. Landowners abutting state forest can spotlight out to 250m of their boundary, we don't have that option with NP, and I don't see that making much difference anyway. The deer on one property travel more than 2000m of winding track every day coming up to his dams. I want to get into the NP one day, unarmed, and make a recce down into the area where they're hanging out during the day.

[Wapiti]

Hunters on their own are never going to solve the expansion of deer in Australia. It's been proven before; across the ditch. Even with paid cullers competing with hunters, deer (or add your own feral animal here) in areas inaccessible to hunters, or where it's just too hard, will overtake the numbers taken.

And people can't compare deer that have only one offspring per year, which is often predated, to rabbits, pigs etc that have many young, which sexually mature extremely quickly. And yet, history shows that deer can overrun areas to the point the landscape is ruined.
So well meaning, but ill advised and basically uninformed, political types keep repeating this crap like it's going to work miraculously this time. Again.

Until deer are valued as they have been elsewhere, where concentrated helicopter shooting and recovering all carcasses for meat makes the use of privately run helis profitable, hunters have nothing to fear from some hairbrained management plan where the money runs out, quotas aren't met and public servants get their arses kicked.
Hunters have nothing to worry about regarding this "management" plan.
They should be a different sort of quality deer management going on, like farmers do with their stud animals. That's management.

[bladeracer]

Hunters on their own are never going to solve the expansion of deer in Australia. It's been proven before; across the ditch. Even with paid cullers competing with hunters, deer (or add your own feral animal here) in areas inaccessible to hunters, or where it's just too hard, will overtake the numbers taken.

And people can't compare deer that have only one offspring per year, which is often predated, to rabbits, pigs etc that have many young, which sexually mature extremely quickly. And yet, history shows that deer can overrun areas to the point the landscape is ruined.
So well meaning, but ill advised and basically uninformed, political types keep repeating this crap like it's going to work miraculously this time. Again.

Until deer are valued as they have been elsewhere, where concentrated helicopter shooting and recovering all carcasses for meat makes the use of privately run helis profitable, hunters have nothing to fear from some hairbrained management plan where the money runs out, quotas aren't met and public servants get their arses kicked.
Hunters have nothing to worry about regarding this "management" plan.
They should be a different sort of quality deer management going on, like farmers do with their stud animals. That's management.

I can't see it being economically viable to try to recover deer carcasses from some of the places I've been into. If you're going to harvest them for profit you'd do better to herd them onto farmland, fence around them, then breed them much like cows. This has been tried many times but I don't think it's ever been very successful in Australia, isn't that how we ended up with them being released into the bush, because of failed deer farming ventures?

What we need is more incentive to get many, many more people out into the bush shooting their own meat instead of buying it from butcher shops, and get hunters away from the idiocy of only shooting trophies. And I think we are seeing an increase in property owners being willing to allow paid hunting and camping on their properties.

[Oldbloke]

In AU, i think its fair to say all our deer species were introduced for sport, sambar by the Acclimatisation Society. The predesessor to the Melbourne zoo i think. But i think fallow and reds have been farmed a fair bit. Many reds and fallow have been released or escaped from farms increading the numbers in the wild. This is so of fallow in particular.

More info here.

https://www.austdeer.com.au/deer-in-aus

[Larry]

So many of the deer are on private small land holdings that may have a small herd of cattle. At least that is the case in the areas around me. So many of these farmers are against anyone other than them shooting anything on their property and really dont have the time or inclination to shoot them themselves. I have shot a few on my place but I am not going to put a dent in the local numbers. To be fair it is a lot more work than most people realise or understand. Its not a case of just go out and shoot the animal. It then takes a few hours of processing to get the meat then there is the matter of what to do with the meat, Not everyone is comfortable with eating wild animals home harvested. so many people these days expect to buy their food from the supermarket on plastic trays in the belief that it is more healthy. To be fair that is true to a large extent. improper butchering can lead to food health problems their are quite a few diseases that can be contracted through wild caught meat butchered in the field, prob most common Lepto. The meat can be contaminated by urine when gutting the animal.

[on_one_wheel]

Their off to a good start.... whoops

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-08/ ... /102828626

[Tassiebloke]

Their off to a good start.... whoops

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-08/ ... /102828626

wow. that's not a good look at all. and yet they don't lose their guns and licences for shooting on private property without permission? smells of corruption to me.

[Oldbloke]

New report from CSIRO.
Deer are low risk.


https://sportingshooter.com.au/news/csi ... se-threat/

[Larry]

They are as stupid as wombats and kangaroos when it comes to road sense. They also make a lot more damage when you hit one.