Chasing a book - "Wapiti in NZ"

[Wapiti]

Hi all,
I'm chasing a copy of Dr. Bruce Banwell's book "Wapiti in New Zealand", first published 1966.
Not to be confused with his book Wapiti and the Moose in NZ, much later published.
It was his first book as far as I know about this species, and he has other incredibly well-regarded books on these animals as well as others, including "Highland Stags of Otago" which I have already.
They are incredibly well-sought after and you'll find them in some of the best hunting lodge libraries all over the world.
These animals have a big place in our everyday farming, and I should have started chasing these particular books a long time ago.

If anyone knows of a copy, please let me know.

[bigpete]

Have you looked on Bunduki books?

[Harrisor44]

Here is one for NZD175 which, going by others for sale, is quite a good price.
https://www.atlantisbooks.co.nz/product ... ce-banwell

[bladeracer]

Hi all,
I'm chasing a copy of Dr. Bruce Banwell's book "Wapiti in New Zealand", first published 1966.
Not to be confused with his book Wapiti and the Moose in NZ, much later published.
It was his first book as far as I know about this species, and he has other incredibly well-regarded books on these animals as well as others, including "Highland Stags of Otago" which I have already.
They are incredibly well-sought after and you'll find them in some of the best hunting lodge libraries all over the world.
These animals have a big place in our everyday farming, and I should have started chasing these particular books a long time ago.

If anyone knows of a copy, please let me know.

I'm curious how wapiti "have a big place in our everyday farming", how many wapiti are there any in Oz?

[bigpete]

Hi all,
I'm chasing a copy of Dr. Bruce Banwell's book "Wapiti in New Zealand", first published 1966.
Not to be confused with his book Wapiti and the Moose in NZ, much later published.
It was his first book as far as I know about this species, and he has other incredibly well-regarded books on these animals as well as others, including "Highland Stags of Otago" which I have already.
They are incredibly well-sought after and you'll find them in some of the best hunting lodge libraries all over the world.
These animals have a big place in our everyday farming, and I should have started chasing these particular books a long time ago.

If anyone knows of a copy, please let me know.

I'm curious how wapiti "have a big place in our everyday farming", how many wapiti are there any in Oz?

More than you think

[Oldbloke]

To state the obvious, Elk are not the same as Red deer.

I highly doubt we have any Elk here in AU, except perhaps a few in Zoos. Could be corrected tho.

[bladeracer]

To state the obvious, Elk are not the same as Red deer.

I highly doubt we have any Elk here in AU, except perhaps a few in Zoos. Could be corrected tho.

Place near me used to have some elk but I think he said he sold them to a hunting business.

[Oldbloke]

Well, there you go.

[Wapiti]

To state the obvious, Elk are not the same as Red deer.

I highly doubt we have any Elk here in AU, except perhaps a few in Zoos. Could be corrected tho.

Well to correct you mate, I don't have that name here because I dream of a North American hunting trip.
I breed them, and hopefully, I get a delivery of some new blood next week. And I also breed Red deer, along with our cattle stud.

There are a number of Elk breeders in Australia, and because of the issues with you-know-what (I figure I make my point in the poacher post and even mention someone who has elk and suffers from poaching) they tend to keep these animals out of the spotlight if they can, pun intended.
It costs a lot of money, and a lot of trouble, to import animals and semen straws, it is just like running a cattle stud. Not store cattle for the saleyards, a real stud.
For those who don't know, Elk were imported into NZ a long time ago from North America and there they are named Wapiti. You can all research this if you are interested.
The Kiwis have had a bit of drama stopping the Elk and Reds interbreeding, which they can do if allowed to mix. They are doing a great job in the Southern Alps and have done their best to keep the Reds out. WE have friends there who breed there, and in Aus too, for velvet, meat, and for hunting trophies for those who appreciate what it costs and the time and effort to keep an animal from being poached to get 20+ points. When Reds and Elk interbreed the result is called a hybrid and can make for some spectacular antlers. Good examples are often bagged out on online forums by "deer masters" who have no idea what they are talking about but like to impress their easily led online followers with their guided paddock hunts.

[Wapiti]

Here is one for NZD175 which, going by others for sale, is quite a good price.
https://www.atlantisbooks.co.nz/product ... ce-banwell

Yes, I appreciate that info mate, but try as I might, the buggers won't send to Aus, or even send elsewhere in NZ. Pick-up only, and I was trying to arrange that by someone.

[Wapiti]

Red stag in velvet

[Wapiti]

Trophy quality

[Wapiti]

And a young Elk bull
Elks are called Bulls and Cows,
Reds are Stags and Hinds.

[Harrisor44]

Another one but you have probably already tried it. Doesn't have an option for international shipping but does say to check with the seller to see if they will ship to Australia. https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace ... 4964024371

[Wapiti]

Mate, you're a life saver. I've purchased the book now, hopefully it's all good. Hopefully it will arrive, it offered the option to send here. Thanks heaps, my searches didn't turn up that seller!

[bigpete]

To state the obvious, Elk are not the same as Red deer.

I highly doubt we have any Elk here in AU, except perhaps a few in Zoos. Could be corrected tho.

You'd be wrong

[Oldbloke]

Oh dear, wrong again.
I said Zoos. A few farms breeding them. Big deal.

Wild herds?? Where are they?
I'm sure you will correct me again.

[bigpete]

Yes there are cases of small wild herds in Australia

[Oldbloke]

Ah, I was right. You corrected me,,,,again.

I even saw into the future because I predicted it.

[bigpete]

I can't help it if you're so consistently wrong

[Oldbloke]

But I was right, I predicted you would correct me. And you did.

Wild herds of Elk, nah.
3 or 4 escapees mmmm well, maybe. But that doesn't count as a herd.

But I'm sure, once again, you will correct me.

[bigpete]

Ah well,believe what you will.

[Oldbloke]

This is the first I've heard of them perhaps being in AU. On farms, zoos, yep. Viable herd, I very much doubt it. To be convinced I'd need to see proof.

Is there any quality evidence?? Not just hear say.

Doing the "google" i did find this.

"Although no official records exist of Elk having been purposefully distributed in to the wild within Australia, reports of several Wapiti type animals having been taken in various States, do pop up from time to time, most likely recent ex farm stock escapees.

Arthur Bentley reports in his “An Introduction to the Deer of Australia”, “Over the years there have been at least three accounts of Wapiti or what some hunters claimed to be Wapiti, being sighted or shot in Victoria. One persistent claim supported by a mounted head on public display was thoroughly investigated but the claim to it being of Victorian origin could not be substantiated”. This short passage from the 1967(revised 1978) publication supports a prevalent theme of reports since and with the various State Government regulators lack of enthusiasm for Wild deer and a fixation on search and destroy, if there was to be a pocket of Wapiti living in the wild within Australia, I trust it would be closely guarded by a select few."

https://www.wilddeer.net.au/2021/05/06/ ... osh-rafin/

Its a bit like yowies, pumas, tassie tigers. With millions of cameras out there, my bet is, not 1 decent photo.

[Wapiti]

This is the first I've heard of them perhaps being in AU. On farms, zoos, yep. Viable herd, I very much doubt it. To be convinced I'd need to see proof.

Is there any quality evidence?? Not just hear say.

Doing the "google" i did find this.

"Although no official records exist of Elk having been purposefully distributed in to the wild within Australia, reports of several Wapiti type animals having been taken in various States, do pop up from time to time, most likely recent ex farm stock escapees.

Arthur Bentley reports in his “An Introduction to the Deer of Australia”, “Over the years there have been at least three accounts of Wapiti or what some hunters claimed to be Wapiti, being sighted or shot in Victoria. One persistent claim supported by a mounted head on public display was thoroughly investigated but the claim to it being of Victorian origin could not be substantiated”. This short passage from the 1967(revised 1978) publication supports a prevalent theme of reports since and with the various State Government regulators lack of enthusiasm for Wild deer and a fixation on search and destroy, if there was to be a pocket of Wapiti living in the wild within Australia, I trust it would be closely guarded by a select few."

https://www.wilddeer.net.au/2021/05/06/ ... osh-rafin/

Its a bit like yowies, pumas, tassie tigers. With millions of cameras out there, my bet is, not 1 decent photo.

I'm genuinely surprised that some of you doubt that there are people who breed Elk in Australia. Or that some seem to doubt mt my honesty.
But it's typical nowadays.

Thanks to the genuine replies to my question, looks like that has scored me the book from some helpful posters who took the effort to help me. Especially seeing as my animals have come from the herd that this book explains the establishment of, and it means a lot.
These books are highly sought after and hard to find.

I first saw the book "Highland Stags of Otago" and the above book on Wapiti, in the library of Sir Tim Wallaces' personal collection at Minaret Station when we were touring their deer breeding program there when trying to better what we are doing. Sir Tim basically pioneered the deer breeding and velveting industry in NZ, and our Reds have that blood in them, so it was such an honour to be able to see that operation and learn from others expertise. Tim did have an interest in Wapiti too, I encourage those interested to read the book "Hurricane Tim" to understand the passion that this industry has.

Again, thanks to those who responded to the question. If I can help you, let me know.

[bigpete]

This is the first I've heard of them perhaps being in AU. On farms, zoos, yep. Viable herd, I very much doubt it. To be convinced I'd need to see proof.

Is there any quality evidence?? Not just hear say.

Doing the "google" i did find this.

"Although no official records exist of Elk having been purposefully distributed in to the wild within Australia, reports of several Wapiti type animals having been taken in various States, do pop up from time to time, most likely recent ex farm stock escapees.

Arthur Bentley reports in his “An Introduction to the Deer of Australia”, “Over the years there have been at least three accounts of Wapiti or what some hunters claimed to be Wapiti, being sighted or shot in Victoria. One persistent claim supported by a mounted head on public display was thoroughly investigated but the claim to it being of Victorian origin could not be substantiated”. This short passage from the 1967(revised 1978) publication supports a prevalent theme of reports since and with the various State Government regulators lack of enthusiasm for Wild deer and a fixation on search and destroy, if there was to be a pocket of Wapiti living in the wild within Australia, I trust it would be closely guarded by a select few."

https://www.wilddeer.net.au/2021/05/06/ ... osh-rafin/

Its a bit like yowies, pumas, tassie tigers. With millions of cameras out there, my bet is, not 1 decent photo.

I'm genuinely surprised that some of you doubt that there are people who breed Elk in Australia. Or that some seem to doubt mt my honesty.
But it's typical nowadays.

Thanks to the genuine replies to my question, looks like that has scored me the book from some helpful posters who took the effort to help me. Especially seeing as my animals have come from the herd that this book explains the establishment of, and it means a lot.
These books are highly sought after and hard to find.

I first saw the book "Highland Stags of Otago" and the above book on Wapiti, in the library of Sir Tim Wallaces' personal collection at Minaret Station when we were touring their deer breeding program there when trying to better what we are doing. Sir Tim basically pioneered the deer breeding and velveting industry in NZ, and our Reds have that blood in them, so it was such an honour to be able to see that operation and learn from others expertise. Tim did have an interest in Wapiti too, I encourage those interested to read the book "Hurricane Tim" to understand the passion that this industry has.

Again, thanks to those who responded to the question. If I can help you, let me know.

To be fair hes only doubting the existence of wild herds. I've spoken to 6 people today from age 23 to over 60 and they all know about the existence of small herds of elk in Australia,from the Brisbane valley, the snowy mountains,south of the Grampians, and I've seen the photos of one shot in mid north SA. The Hunt NSW app even lists them as found in Australia in small numbers. But that's ok. OB spruiked that bowhunting was banned in sa for a year before it actually will be ( still not banned yet !) based off his Googlefu

[Billo]

Hi all,
I'm chasing a copy of Dr. Bruce Banwell's book "Wapiti in New Zealand", first published 1966.
Not to be confused with his book Wapiti and the Moose in NZ, much later published.
It was his first book as far as I know about this species, and he has other incredibly well-regarded books on these animals as well as others, including "Highland Stags of Otago" which I have already.
They are incredibly well-sought after and you'll find them in some of the best hunting lodge libraries all over the world.
These animals have a big place in our everyday farming, and I should have started chasing these particular books a long time ago.

If anyone knows of a copy, please let me know.

I'm curious how wapiti "have a big place in our everyday farming", how many wapiti are there any in Oz?

Mates managed to get a nice Wap Stag just outside the Sydney basin a few years ago

[Wapiti]

No worries.
I'm not aware of any wild herds of Elk in Aus, although there have been escapes. Others can start discussions about that, or doubt what others do and say. I understand there'll always be those who like to doubt things that they aren't aware of.

"Viable herds" to someone like myself, means a number of animals capable of breeding and achieving the goal of the animal manager (the breeder), which to us is prime examples of that breed, both for our satisfaction and a market that line up to have access. This involves access to new blood and sharing those genetics with other similar interest breeders, and getting to that goal.
As I've said, it's exactly the same thing as, say, the owner of a cattle breed that is building the genetics of that breed and selling prime examples to others. We run a cattle stud so follow the same principles. In our case, a registered Droughtmaster stud.

Someone made the comment earlier "I'm curious how wapiti "have a big place in our everyday farming"", Well this means it's a part of the taxable business, we breed animals, their costs (including losses) form tax deductions and their sales bring in income. And believe me, every one of those animals has someone who wants them. There is a big hidden market out there and all animals are a resource. And they take a bloody lot of time and effort, but that's something we get great pleasure from.

Also great pleasure is sitting down at the end of a big day and reading a good book, especially if it's great history about how people got the ability to do this in the first place and those who didn't listen to the doubters and just achieved regardless. I reckon we can all make some history if we want to.

[Oldbloke]

It wasn't about wining an argument. It was about credible evidence of herds outside fences.
This was the first I'd heard about Elk being in AU.
With so much BS being on the Web I have become very cynical about what I read on the www.

BP said they existed but supplied no suporting proof or explanation / details. As I had no idea where that info came from, I was very cynical.

"OB spruiked that bowhunting was banned in sa for a year before it actually will be ( still not banned yet !)"
That's an exaggeration. Not even certain by what you mean by 'spruiked"
It was announced in the media and later on, I believe, 1 occasion I raised it. IIRC you then provided proof it was yet to be "proclaimed". Since then you have mentioned it several times. Not me.
And I might add, I have become tired of you suggesting I have repeated it several times. Pete, I have always understand this is a sensitive subject for you, but on this occasion i believe you are wrong. Like you I would like it to continue to be lawful.

Back on track.
Looks like I have to eat my words.
I've further investigated and seen credible evidence that there is 3-4 herds in as many states. (Escapees) Whether they survive due to mixing with the reds is another matter.

[Billo]

I can understand why many would be sceptical, I guess that comes back to not knowing what's going on outside your own back yard.

[bladeracer]

I read your statement as a generalisation of Australian farming, not your own unique situation. I doubt wapiti will ever have even a microscopic presence in my everyday farming.

An hour southwest of me is Terramirra Deer Farm - https://www.terramirradeer.com.au/
We visited a few years ago but he didn't have any elk at the time, whether he has replaced them now I can't say. A property 2500m from me breeds fallow for Terramirra.

Someone made the comment earlier "I'm curious how wapiti "have a big place in our everyday farming"", Well this means it's a part of the taxable business, we breed animals, their costs (including losses) form tax deductions and their sales bring in income. And believe me, every one of those animals has someone who wants them. There is a big hidden market out there and all animals are a resource. And they take a bloody lot of time and effort, but that's something we get great pleasure from.