.308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss, right?

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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by mickb » 04 Aug 2019, 2:37 am

TassieTiger wrote:Yet head shooting accounts for a large portion of painful wounds that don’t kill immediately or at all...the skull, jaw, teeth, etc can and will deflect all manner of projectiles, a very shallow angle and a 308 at some distance = a potential ricochet.


Got any figures for that?

I think it would be small next to gutshots. Also the largest portion of wounding is probably shotguns and it would be impossible to measure. Until they find a way to individually direct pellets ;) they will have shot hit incidental targets, broken legs,also animals that run or fly off likely carry wounds you will never know about. Next probably archery just because its more difficult to aim and predict range.

% wise I'd also put injuries to pigs and dogs mutually in pig hunting. QLD has the worlds highest wild pig population, about 25 mil , outnumbering humans 5:1. Both animals get an absolute hammering up here. No one likes to admit it but an owners financial situation may sometimes not meet the level to pay for the patch up jobs, so the dog gets 'home surgery' , guts poked back in and stiches and eventually a bullet if they dont pull through.

Its not my sport but I don't have a problem with any of it- headshoot, knife, arrows, tweeds and a $10,000 shotgun, you are always going to make something miserable at some point. Have at it.
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by sungazer » 04 Aug 2019, 9:51 am

It is possible to shoot 185grn bullets from a 308 however I would not recommended it in a factory rifle. In a target rifle action which are much more heavy duty and in a 30 inch barrel it is possible to even go a bit further at the expense of case life. About 2900-2950 is the normal speed of this weight projectile shot in competition.
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by Oldbloke » 04 Aug 2019, 10:59 am

sungazer wrote:It is possible to shoot 185grn bullets from a 308 however I would not recommended it in a factory rifle. In a target rifle action which are much more heavy duty and in a 30 inch barrel it is possible to even go a bit further at the expense of case life. About 2900-2950 is the normal speed of this weight projectile shot in competition.


Perhaps, but that is just a dream for a 22" sporter barrel.
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by Oldbloke » 04 Aug 2019, 11:01 am

Oldbloke wrote:"What loading is being used to get a 180gn 308 to over 3000 FPS?"

Mr ADI says Max fps

308. 180gr. 2661
308. 200gr. 2441

3006. 180gr. 2798
3006. 200gr. 2577


30-30. 170gr. 2181

SFA in it.


And ill bet they are out of a 26" barrel
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by TassieTiger » 04 Aug 2019, 6:30 pm

mickb wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:Yet head shooting accounts for a large portion of painful wounds that don’t kill immediately or at all...the skull, jaw, teeth, etc can and will deflect all manner of projectiles, a very shallow angle and a 308 at some distance = a potential ricochet.


Got any figures for that?

I think it would be small next to gutshots. Also the largest portion of wounding is probably shotguns and it would be impossible to measure. Until they find a way to individually direct pellets ;) they will have shot hit incidental targets, broken legs,also animals that run or fly off likely carry wounds you will never know about. Next probably archery just because its more difficult to aim and predict range.

% wise I'd also put injuries to pigs and dogs mutually in pig hunting. QLD has the worlds highest wild pig population, about 25 mil , outnumbering humans 5:1. Both animals get an absolute hammering up here. No one likes to admit it but an owners financial situation may sometimes not meet the level to pay for the patch up jobs, so the dog gets 'home surgery' , guts poked back in and stiches and eventually a bullet if they dont pull through.

Its not my sport but I don't have a problem with any of it- headshoot, knife, arrows, tweeds and a $10,000 shotgun, you are always going to make something miserable at some point. Have at it.



Got any figures got yours?
Are you asking for “factual”detail to a question and then answering it with “probables” and “maybes”? Lol.

But to answer yours, no I don’t -
From what I’ve read, spoken to better shooters than me, more experienced shooters than me, pro hunters - the science behind the head shot injury as I understand it, pertaining for large roo / deer at least, is the marginal potential for deflection from a hard surface they lies directly under the skin It was further explained to me rightly or wrongly that- bone density, as it’s pressured from impact, compresses such that with the unusually angled shapes of triangular skulls, a deflection is not uncommon. I’ve witnessed it a few times personally from lighter gauge centrefires, I’ve heard all manner of conversation about the harvested roo that had a broken jaw, ear, etc etc from a final chest shot.

I’d take a further punt that most gut shots don’t live on...
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by mickb » 04 Aug 2019, 7:42 pm

TassieTiger wrote:Got any figures got yours?
Are you asking for “factual”detail to a question and then answering it with “probables” and “maybes”? Lol.
But to answer yours, no I don’t -


I was asking for factual details yes, since you made the statement. And no I don't have any myself so we are both still in the dark :D

From what I’ve read, spoken to better shooters than me, more experienced shooters than me, pro hunters


I was a 'pro' hunter or volume culler at least, but I still stand in awe of guys who can swing a shotgun, hunt ultra-long range, fire an arrow, take great running shots. Head shooting I consider easier than all four, easier to teach, with less chance of wounding for the average guy. Thats probably my point , generally refuting what we read in gun rags every day, its not as hard as people make out.


- the science behind the head shot injury as I understand it, pertaining for large roo / deer at least, is the marginal potential for deflection from a hard surface they lies directly under the skin It was further explained to me rightly or wrongly that- bone density, as it’s pressured from impact, compresses such that with the unusually angled shapes of triangular skulls, a deflection is not uncommon. I’ve witnessed it a few times personally from lighter gauge centrefires, I’ve heard all manner of conversation about the harvested roo that had a broken jaw, ear, etc etc from a final chest shot.

I’d take a further punt that most gut shots don’t live on...


Agree about shallow head angles, no doubt. But its just part of the game.
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by TassieTiger » 04 Aug 2019, 7:53 pm

mickb wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:Got any figures got yours?
Are you asking for “factual”detail to a question and then answering it with “probables” and “maybes”? Lol.
But to answer yours, no I don’t -


I was asking for factual details yes, since you made the statement. And no I don't have any myself so we are both still in the dark :D

From what I’ve read, spoken to better shooters than me, more experienced shooters than me, pro hunters


I was a 'pro' hunter or volume culler at least, but I still stand in awe of guys who can swing a shotgun, hunt ultra-long range, fire an arrow, take great running shots. Head shooting I consider easier than all four, easier to teach, with less chance of wounding for the average guy.


- the science behind the head shot injury as I understand it, pertaining for large roo / deer at least, is the marginal potential for deflection from a hard surface they lies directly under the skin It was further explained to me rightly or wrongly that- bone density, as it’s pressured from impact, compresses such that with the unusually angled shapes of triangular skulls, a deflection is not uncommon. I’ve witnessed it a few times personally from lighter gauge centrefires, I’ve heard all manner of conversation about the harvested roo that had a broken jaw, ear, etc etc from a final chest shot.

I’d take a further punt that most gut shots don’t live on...


Agree about shallow head angles, no doubt. But its just part of the game.


Thing is - a shotty is doing nothing much beyond 50...a lot of occasional hunters whom do not pa rice a hell of a lot, ppl with a large centre fire that think they are better than they are (and especially under lights) where the target is a crisp set of eyes - a lethal chest shot is a bigger target than a lethal headshot and they scale climbs with distance, wind and unprofessionalism.

Give me some of the regulars on here - and id happily back them in a headshot any day of the week...give me the guy that reckons he’s shooting 3000fps with 180’s...I’m preferring him to take a chest shot...but - at the end of the day it should go without saying, it’s the trigger mans call, vs his responsibility vs his skill set vs his ethics. Huntings a messy game - I’d prefer to not be the one telling the storey of finding half a deers cheek but no carcass as a result of my poor decision - others would be quite content...
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by mchughcb » 26 Dec 2019, 12:03 am

Old thread but i would like to be a small game animal sitting broadside at 50 to 70m when someone is using #3 36gr loads. I did some pattern tests on my full choke and dropping bunnies past 50m is no joke.

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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by mchughcb » 26 Dec 2019, 12:12 am

Sambar are a tough animal. Ive shot them with a 7x57R and a 416 Rem plus everything between. Sometimes they go down generally they will do a runner.

Here is a running sambar hind shot with a 9.3x74R and twice with a 458 win mag. Eventually it stopped. Would have kept running with a 150gr corelokt from a 308? Probably. Every person i know who starts with a 308 upgrades the minute they lose a sambar.

My personal bush favorite is a 30-06 using 220gr woodleigh out to 200m.

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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by John » 07 Apr 2020, 8:26 am

hi all if 308 isn’t enough your doing it wrong no deer will run off with a .308 hole in its brain box.
And if your harvesting the animal that’s where your shot needs to be for a quick clean kill in my opinion and that’s not based on not having bigger guns I have a tikka .270 and a sako .300mag
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by brinny » 11 Apr 2020, 10:52 pm

Have heard all this rubbish about 308s not suitable for shooting sambar for years......
After hunting sambar with the hounds for a lot of years...during that time and even now, a LOT of blokes i knew were and still are using 308s (including me) and were belting them over as good as those using cannons.....
There are a lot of sambar heads on my wall as well as a lot of reds, not to mention the countless hinds that were all taken with the 308....
But if you are trying to knock them over at 1000+m with a 308 like some blokes do...then thats another story....
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by AusC » 12 Apr 2020, 9:20 am

brinny wrote:But if you are trying to knock them over at 1000+m with a .308 like some blokes do...then thats another story....


And that is, of course, not a shortcoming with the cartridge, but a misuse by the shooter.

Anything "performs poorly" if you're using it wrong, or outside it's intended purpose.

.308 has obviously been demonstrated to be a potentially accurate 1,000m cartridge for target shooting, but a deer isn't a piece of paper. You don't just need to hit it, you need to hit it with enough velocity to expand the projectile to do it's work and enough energy to humanely kill the animal.

At 1,000m .308 doesn't retain anywhere near enough velocity to expand a hunting bullet sufficiently, and has bugger all energy left.

When stalking deer at up to 200m or 300m, as is the reality of deer hunting, the .308 does well with a suitable projectile. But it is not an effective, humane long/extreme-range large-game cartridge.

And having said all that, lets be honest and admit that outside of complete blind luck, 99.9% of shooters and their hunting rigs couldn't hit a deer at 1000m on their best day.
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by TassieTiger » 12 Apr 2020, 9:37 am

308 is clearly an an out of date target only round. I’d be cautious trying to humanely dispatch a rabbit inside 100mins - let alone a deer.
Proper hunting rounds like the 30-06 should be the “go to” for deer.
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by brinny » 12 Apr 2020, 12:32 pm

And having said all that, lets be honest and admit that outside of complete blind luck, 99.9% of shooters and their hunting rigs couldn't hit a deer at 1000m on their best day.


Got to be honest...I wouldnt even try....
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by Bourt » 04 May 2020, 8:06 pm

TassieTiger wrote:308 is clearly an an out of date target only round. I’d be cautious trying to humanely dispatch a rabbit inside 100mins - let alone a deer.


Alright, mate. Calm down :lol:
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by Bourt » 04 May 2020, 8:06 pm

brinny wrote:
And having said all that, lets be honest and admit that outside of complete blind luck, 99.9% of shooters and their hunting rigs couldn't hit a deer at 1000m on their best day.


Got to be honest...I wouldnt even try....


Ditto. I wouldn't try 500m to be honest. I might get a hit, but wouldn't have any confidence in it being a clean, ethical shot.
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 05 May 2020, 2:41 pm

TassieTiger wrote:308 is clearly an an out of date target only round. I’d be cautious trying to humanely dispatch a rabbit inside 100mins - let alone a deer.
Proper hunting rounds like the 30-06 should be the “go to” for deer.


Is that meant to be a joke. Or a mental fart day. Someone had a bit of curry and it came out the wrong end
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by TassieTiger » 05 May 2020, 2:49 pm

If I really have to explain it....? Geeez....
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by Archie » 05 May 2020, 6:15 pm

TassieTiger wrote:If I really have to explain it....? Geeez....


Mate, as I was thinking to myself the other day while working up a custom .450 nitro express load for getting rid of some pigeons that keep crapping on the shed, some people really don’t get it.
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 05 May 2020, 6:24 pm

Awww have i upset you that much over the last few months, that my pisstake on you taking the p1ss rubbed your vjay like someone filled your bikini with sand.

Sorry i suppose only you can joke.
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by TassieTiger » 05 May 2020, 6:34 pm

Asking if something is a joke doesn’t really translate to well...a joke now does it. Maybe time for yet another name change...
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by Grandadbushy » 05 May 2020, 6:57 pm

The 308 is a quiet capable round put in the right hands as like any caliber , the 308 was used consistently in the territory for shooting buffalo and it worked well for those that used it . put any of the larger calibers in the wrong hands or unethical shooters and you have a situation for someone to say it is the wrong caliber for that job because shot placement is way off . The conversation that the 308 is probably not a good caliber for sambar even though it took 4 times larger animals for decades but on saying that everyone is entitled to their opinion but it strikes me as like a question of what is the best caliber for shooting wild dogs or fox, it all depends on who is using it and for what reason , how ethical they are with shooting distances, so you see every one could be right because it's their belief and opinion don't mean to say it is correct
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by snag » 05 May 2020, 7:02 pm

Fair dinkum Archie - 450 NE is overkill for pigeons in anyone's books! I control mine with 250 grainers from my 338-06 A-Square no problem at all. Maybe you should work on your shot placement .... practice head shots maybe?
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by TassieTiger » 05 May 2020, 7:30 pm

Grandadbushy wrote:The 308 is a quiet capable round put in the right hands as like any caliber , the 308 was used consistently in the territory for shooting buffalo and it worked well for those that used it . put any of the larger calibers in the wrong hands or unethical shooters and you have a situation for someone to say it is the wrong caliber for that job because shot placement is way off . The conversation that the 308 is probably not a good caliber for sambar even though it took 4 times larger animals for decades but on saying that everyone is entitled to their opinion but it strikes me as like a question of what is the best caliber for shooting wild dogs or fox, it all depends on who is using it and for what reason , how ethical they are with shooting distances, so you see every one could be right because it's their belief and opinion don't mean to say it is correct


If you read the thread - not a single person believes a 308 is too small. Not one.
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by Grandadbushy » 05 May 2020, 7:42 pm

Yes Tassie mate I don't have to read all the posts because I was taking it from the first post where his friends were being told that the 308 wasn't a good caliber for sambar I wasn't finger pointing at any body on here just pointing out some facts toward the info they received that it wasn't gospel about the 308 nothing more nothing less . The conversation I speak about is the one his friends had with those saying the 308 was a lesser caliber for sambar :drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by Stix » 05 May 2020, 8:11 pm

Ok...im just flexing my body & stretching my hamstrings for a frantic escape out of here immediately after my next sentence...

Ive only ever shot a handfull of deer...maybe 4 Fallow...all with 32 & 40's out of a 204...


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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by Archie » 05 May 2020, 8:19 pm

snag wrote:Fair dinkum Archie - 450 NE is overkill for pigeons in anyone's books! I control mine with 250 grainers from my 338-06 A-Square no problem at all. Maybe you should work on your shot placement .... practice head shots maybe?


I’m committed to heart/lung shots on pigeons mate. Screw up a head shot and blow off the beak with that little round of yours, you’ll be blood-trailing the damn thing for days and never find it. Boiler room with something that gives proper penetration the only way to go, and keep shooting till it’s down.
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by marksman » 05 May 2020, 8:45 pm

you guys need to stop playing around and get some blood in yer undies :lol:
308's are for pip squeaks :lol: :drinks:

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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by snag » 05 May 2020, 9:29 pm

Yeah, I think you're onto something there Archie. I've been looking at a Winnie 458 magnum, but reckon now I'll go Weatherby 460magnum. Get them feathers flying .....
The pen may be mightier than the sword, but personally I prefer the .30/30 Winchester.
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Re: .308 not enough for Sambar? Taking the piss right?

Post by Grandadbushy » 05 May 2020, 9:31 pm

AWW !!!, come on marksman that's cheating and frankly just a waste of brass :lol: :lol: :thumbsup: :clap: :clap:
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