130gr bullets and large deer

Game hunting and large prey. Deer stalking, hunting with hounds. Boar, pigs etc., large prey, culling, hunting large feral animals.

130gr bullets and large deer

Post by veep » 10 Sep 2014, 11:32 am

(Everyone probably knows this but just in case) Victoria has the law of a minimum 130gr bullet and .270 calibre for hunting the larger 3 species of deer here.

I'm pretty new to hunting and don't have a lot of experience seeing damage and wound channels on game.

For the littleuns like Chital and Fallow that heaps of bullet I know. For real big Sambar though it doesn't seem like much, to a novice like me anyway.

I'm not a good enough shooter that I could regularly headshot and will be relying on chest shots for my hunting.

What do you guys think of the 130gr for large deer? Enough?

Just for curious... What do you think the minimum should be if different?
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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by MeccaOz » 10 Sep 2014, 11:55 am

in the right place, yep they will do the job mate.
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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by Hardcast » 10 Sep 2014, 1:50 pm

It's not so much the weight (130 gr) but the type of projectile you need to use, and the velocity at which it is traveling when it hits the animal Veep.

Some projectiles just blow up and desintergrate if traveling too fast at impact while others won't expand enough to do their job, and pass straight through and keep going.

130 gr, and .270 caliber is stated as minimal but has done the job for plenty of hunters over the years.

As with all hunting, pick and use the good stuff, 30 or 40 cents a shot will mean nothing if you Deer gets away.

Do your home work and aim true.
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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by RealNick » 12 Sep 2014, 8:44 am

Hardcast wrote:As with all hunting, pick and use the good stuff, 30 or 40 cents a shot will mean nothing if you Deer gets away.


Yep.

As long as you're not using something silly like FMJ's which are pencilling through, it'll do it.

The size of the bullet isn't what does the damage, it's the transfer of energy and wound channel that creates.

You don't need to be using a cannon ball.
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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by Aussier » 12 Sep 2014, 9:38 am

Google some wound channel images from soft points ;)
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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by VICHunter » 12 Sep 2014, 9:40 am

A deer's a big animal but you're not trying to vaporise it, you're just trying to hit vitals.

The brain or heart and lungs. You just need enough bullet to get through those, not the entire animal.
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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by Timb0 » 12 Sep 2014, 4:15 pm

I have used the 270W and the 270 Weatherby on Red Deer. The 270Win with 130gr projectiles is quite a good deer cartridge. I have manly used Barnes TTSX 130gr and have had a lot of success. For reasons I can't explain, even to myself I have recently changed to 150gr Nosler Partitions. They don't seem to make an amazing difference but they do seem a bit better and I would have as much confidence in them as my .308 with 180gr projectiles.

Well actually I do know why I change projectiles, its because I was too lazy to buy two different types and I use 150gr in the Weatherby and that is good enough for camels.

The .270 caliber has quite a good sectional density - meaning it penetrates well and a 130gr 270 has a similar section density to a 155gr 30cal projectile. At only 100yrds the 270 with 130gr starts to over take the 308 with 150gr in the energy department. So it's basically a bit better or comparable to the 308 at 200yds maybe ( I'm guessing) as the 308 does have the advantage of a wider wound channel in close.

People like the .270 with 130gr because it shoots flat, and under 300yrds if you site it in correctly there isn't a need to adjust for drop. However the most important thing with killing something is shot placement. You could shoot a deer in the arse with a 375 H&H and it would still take a long time to die. So if your not confident you should practice shooting in different positions at the range until you are.

I have never shot samba.

Hope this helps.
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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by Josh Smith » 13 Sep 2014, 11:46 am

Hello,

Our Northern Whitetail is about as big as your Samba.

The minimum round we can use in the State of Indiana is a .357 Magnum from rifle or pistol. Keep in mind that this is a pistol round. It does the job nicely.

Our elk are around 320kg, and a lot of folks recommend 150 grain in .270 for them.

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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by Oldbloke » 13 Sep 2014, 12:20 pm

It is my understanding a good Sambar stag weighs in (live weight) upto 600lb (270 kg) and 50 inches at the shoulder, & hinds 320 lb (145kg)

The government reckons a 130 grn is OK
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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by yoshie » 13 Sep 2014, 4:22 pm

Sambar are a big deer, they also have shorter legs and have a lower centre of gravity which tends to absorb a lot of energy from a bullet, they aren't bullet proof tho. 270 and 308 are a good choice. I think bullet construction is more important than weight. You don't want a ballistic tip or hollow point.
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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by handofcod » 13 Sep 2014, 7:20 pm

This from Nathan Foster's article on 270WIN:

"The 130 grain TSX at 3060fps is best suited to use on larger animals, weighing above 80kg (180lb), up to the size of Elk with ordinary chest shots."
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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by veep » 15 Sep 2014, 11:07 am

yoshie wrote:I think bullet construction is more important than weight. You don't want a ballistic tip or hollow point.


Hollow point understood.

No ballistic tip though? Why's that? :?
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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by MeccaOz » 15 Sep 2014, 1:08 pm

veep wrote:
yoshie wrote:I think bullet construction is more important than weight. You don't want a ballistic tip or hollow point.


Hollow point understood.

No ballistic tip though? Why's that? :?


Not sure what Yoshi was going to say, but from what Ive seen and heard Ballistic tips do sometimes blow-up.

They are great on ferals like dingo though :)
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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by FuzzyM » 15 Sep 2014, 6:08 pm

Ballistic tipped bullets are still a hollow point.

They just fill the hole with plastic which helps with aerodynamics.

They still open up like a normal hollow point.
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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by yoshie » 15 Sep 2014, 6:51 pm

FuzzyM wrote:Ballistic tipped bullets are still a hollow point.
They just fill the hole with plastic which helps with aerodynamics.
They still open up like a normal hollow point.


Yeah pretty much, there are exceptions like Barnes TTSX which are specifically designed as hunting bullets, most ballistic tips are varmint or target bullets that will either blow up or zip straight through an animal. I've used Hornady SST (30 cal) which are a ballistic tip on smaller deer (fallow does) and dogs, I wouldn't use them on the larger species. They work fairly well and expend all their energy within a few inches. With Sambar you want deep penetration.
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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by Lorgar » 16 Sep 2014, 2:37 pm

MeccaOz wrote:Not sure what Yoshi was going to say, but from what Ive seen and heard Ballistic tips do sometimes blow-up.


FuzzyM wrote:Ballistic tipped bullets are still a hollow point.

They just fill the hole with plastic which helps with aerodynamics.

They still open up like a normal hollow point.


Just my experience with these which is contrary to the above...

I have a 140gr and 120gr load worked up for my 7mm-08 both using Ballistic Tips.

Off the top of my head the 140gr cartridge is loaded for about 2,800 fps muzzle velocity. The 120gr cartridge is loaded for about 3,050 fps muzzle velocity.

I use these for hunting everything in Victoria, the 120gr for varminting and small game and the 140gr for the larger 3 deer species, and have found the weight retention and damage to be plenty.

I can't remember the details but I was also using the 150gr BT in my .308 when I had it and I was happy with the bullets then as well.

I suspect that impact at about 2900+ maybe on bone or thick skin is where they've come undone for people and the above can be chalked up to excess velocity. Annoyingly Nosler don't provide the info for this for their hunting BT's but their Varmint BT's are shown to be shrapnel at 3,000fps impact so that's a bit of a guide.

Personally I've found them to be very good for hunting. Perhaps not the best choice for magnum cartridges but for anyone not using one that's going to be a moot point.

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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by Timb0 » 16 Sep 2014, 7:33 pm

There are quiet a few ballistic tipped projectiles that are neither for target shooting or for varminting.

The Barnes TTSX are a 99% copper projectile ( besides the tip). They have an internal cavity that is about 1/3 of the bullets length, that along with the ballistic tip helps expansion. The bullet usually stops expanding close to the end of the cavity (depending on velocity). The base of the bullet is usually left intact and helps push the expanded bullet though the animals organs. I think due to being made of copper that helps retain a lot of their mass and that helps with penetration.

Noslers ballistic tipped hunting bullets have a thicker jacket then varmint bullets and they go on about how they have bonded the jacket to the lead to control the expansion. I haven't used these much but plenty of people say they are a good thing.

SST's have an copper ring that locks the jacket to the lead and slows down the expansion, shown where the tip of the knife points in the photo. I find them good for general shooting in my .270- pigs, dogs, goats, small and medium deer. They usually punch through goats and smaller sized animals. I have heard of people saying they expand too quick but I think its usually a case of poor shot placement. Gut shooting animals has that messy looking slow death effect.

Although I don't load the Noslers or SST for large deer I would quiet happily use them. Bullets need to expand to do their job efficiently and deer are fairly light skinned.
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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by Octane » 17 Sep 2014, 1:47 pm

Nice job on bisecting the bullet there Timbo.

That knife must have some edge on it :D
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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by Lorgar » 19 Sep 2014, 10:19 am

Timb0 wrote:Noslers ballistic tipped hunting bullets have a thicker jacket then varmint bullets and they go on about how they have bonded the jacket to the lead to control the expansion. I haven't used these much but plenty of people say they are a good thing.


You're confusing Ballistic Tips with Accubonds there. Accubonds have the bonded core and jacket.

I don't use them just because they're quite expensive and the regular Ballistic Tips do the job for me. I've used them plenty of times though shooting with a mate who regularly uses them and they're great bullets with excellent weight retention.
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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by Timb0 » 19 Sep 2014, 12:13 pm

Lorgar wrote:You're confusing Ballistic Tips with Accubonds there. Accubonds have the bonded core and jacket.


Yes, your correct that should be accubond.

I think I payed over $1 each last time I purchased the standard accubond. I didn't buy them again,
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Re: 130gr bullets and large deer

Post by Lorgar » 19 Sep 2014, 3:50 pm

Sounds right.

A mate of mine shoots them in his Scout. TBH it's basically because they shot well and he CBF working up another load with cheaper bullets as it's only for hunting a couple of times a years so the cost doesn't really matter for him.

About $1.80 per hand load at the end of the day though. Pricey...
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