Hunting Season 3 mths / year ?

[Die Judicii]

I was talking to an office member on the phone with regards to a cull permit or hiring a registered pro roo shooter.
In the course of the conversation I asked " How come there isn't a hunting season on roos, considering their near plague numbers? "

The reply was that it isn't really a possibility because they are featured on the Australian Coat of Arms.

I thought to myself,,, now that's strange,,, how come it's perfectly ok for Coles and Woolies to sell our Coat of Arms animal for eating ???


There is one particular road that I travel frequently, and for about 60 klms it is just a constant stench of rotting roo carcasses on the road verges.

[Oldbloke]

Agree, should be the same as duck season with daily or seasonal limits. Bag limits could vary depending on numbers. Or perhaps a tag system.

[gazza]

What would we eat for the other 9 months.

[bigfellascott]

I'm always pulling the bloody things off the road after some halfwit hits them and just leaves them there to be someone else's problem. They should be able to be shot like they were in the old days, they never died out but were kept to more tolerable numbers and less problems all round back then, now the f***ing things are everywhere, some paddocks I drive past would have close to 100 in em.

[Chronos]

The thing is farmers can apply for permits and shoot them but as more and more hobby farmers and tree changers but up blocks they won't do the necessary control and numbers go crazy. And that's on private land, God only knows what the public land numbers are like.

Chronos

[Die Judicii]

The thing is farmers can apply for permits and shoot them but as more and more hobby farmers and tree changers but up blocks they won't do the necessary control and numbers go crazy. And that's on private land, God only knows what the public land numbers are like.

Chronos

When I was talking to the "POWERS" the other day, they told me that there are 2 avenues open to me.

1) I get a permit, and shoot them myself, but the carcasses have to stay where they lay.

OR

2) I get a pro roo shooter in and he/they take the carcasses to the chiller. (I'm probly still left with the guts etc all over the paddocks)

In the front paddock and on the way to the front gate, it's common to see 150 to 200 odd roos in about 40 acres, every afternoon.

The problem facing me at the moment is that the nearest chiller to me that I know of is nearly 100 klms away, and I don't think the pros would travel that far even if I could contact any.
I haven't been able to contact any just yet.

Most people in the little town nearby have put up 6' and 7' high chain mesh fences around their boundaries just to keep the marauding b*stards out.

[wrenchman]

i cant get over leaveing the animal on the ground that would get you a fine here in most states

[Tomek]

I find it really annoying how people think of hunting as cruel while they are happy to munch on their factory farmed meat. And it it is those same people who keep putting roadblocks in front of us. With all the Organic movements around you'd think they would prefer hunting but I don't think Australia will change. It's just getting more and more nanny state like.

[<<Genesis93>>]

I find it really annoying how people think of hunting as cruel while they are happy to munch on their factory farmed meat. And it it is those same people who keep putting roadblocks in front of us. With all the Organic movements around you'd think they would prefer hunting but I don't think Australia will change. It's just getting more and more nanny state like.

Yup.... we as a society have become so detached from reality... that kids grow up without the faintest clue about how the lamb ends up on their plate.. they think the meat somehow miraculously appears in the supermarket display...its the fault of the parents who for fear of who know what... never associate the cute white fluffy baby lamb - with the dinner table.

As far as roos go, its generally accepted the during the good times - the numbers explode, during the bad times, those number die a slow death, and move into the urban areas, more than usual anyway.... the government departments recognise it,but it seems they just fear the enviro types... a number of years ago when I fronted into the local enviroment department for the game licance, the attendant asked me if I wanted a 'roo permit... while I was there they KNOW the roos need to be controlled...

We should have controls removed from shooting roos on private property.... no season, no permits.
In fact any animals, native or introduced, unless they're recognised to have vulnerable numbers/'endangered', should be fair game.

[Gwion]

Totally disagree with that last statement/sentence.

Native wildlife should be protected for countless reasons. It would be easy enough for anyone wanting to hunt a particular species to acquire a permit under controlled conditions. Wholesale and free reign destruction of species is how many are driven to the brink of extinction before any protective measures can be put in place for threatened species.

"Oh, crap... there's only 5 breeding pairs of them left.... we better put them on the list... oops... Joe Blogs just shot two!"

It is much easier and safer to have a blanket "no take" policy with limited exceptions than to do it the other way around, as suggested above.

[p3seven]

In my travels all over, there are more roos than there ever was thanks to farmer installed water points.and closer to civilisation improved pastures. There are endangered species such as various Wallabies that should be protected so a permit should be utilised to force concentration on grey and red Kangaroos where they are in plague proportion. I have met several graziers who have say 20,000 sheep and 40,000 kangaroos on their properties. At three times carrying capapcity no wonder they slip back quickly into drought conditions as soon as it stops raining.

I notice that the SSAA Farmer Assist website (when I looked last week) has one job on offer for roo and pig culling in the States where it is operating.

Who does however, have the money for the ammunition needed for the volume of culls that are required?

[Gwion]

Totally agree with culling as we have artificially extended the habitat, hence the population explosions. However, i still think a permit system is needed as it can help track numbers, etc.

For instance, in Tas there is a Crop Protection permit system in place for two species of wallaby and brush tail possums. It is free for land holders, just need to apply and keep track of cull numbers. This allows the use of spot light t night, which is otherwise not legal in Tas for any purpose. The permit is in place for the property, the individual shooter (or anyone involved in the pest control operation) then needs to have a game licence endorsed for the species involved, ie: wallaby & possum. The game licence is around $30 -40 a year. The property owner/manager tracks cull numbers and submits them at the end of each year so a record of total cull can be tracked overtime and estimates on population for a property/area can be made.

The system is really quite easy to work under.

Day time hunting/shooting of wallaby only requires the game licence.

[<<Genesis93>>]

Totally disagree with that last statement/sentence.

Native wildlife should be protected for countless reasons. It would be easy enough for anyone wanting to hunt a particular species to acquire a permit under controlled conditions. Wholesale and free reign destruction of species is how many are driven to the brink of extinction before any protective measures can be put in place for threatened species.

"Oh, crap... there's only 5 breeding pairs of them left.... we better put them on the list... oops... Joe Blogs just shot two!"

It is much easier and safer to have a blanket "no take" policy with limited exceptions than to do it the other way around, as suggested above.

Total disagreement is totally agreeable else we'd have little to banter about...

If a species is plentiful, and its on private property.... why should it not be taken? If I'd like to eat a Kangaroo....I need to convince some bureaucrat in Spring Street Melbourne, that the Roos are not just eating my crops and pastures, but competing with stock and disturbing/reducing my income otherwise generated, or causing other damage.... but I can go to Coles and buy NSW Roo?? Thats not sensible to my thinking...

A blanket no take policy is just a huge waste of a resource. The native species should also be 'un' protected for countless reasons. and its not easy to obtain a permit, nowadays, you need to convince them you've exhausted non-lethal control measures;

Non-lethal control
It is DELWP policy that all practical non-lethal control options must be exhausted before you apply for an ATCW for lethal control. There are a number of long - term solutions available to manage wildlife damage that do not require an ATCW. For example, fencing or netting to exclude animals, planting different types of crops, or planting at different times. While lethal control may seem like the immediate answer, it is time-consuming and often must be repeated to be effective.

An ATCW is required by law to disturb wildlife through scaring, harassing, dispersing, trapping or translocating. For example
, a landholder using a gas gun to frighten birds from their orchard would require an ATCW, while a landholder using netting and a scarecrow would not.

So they want you to fence! or change crops instead of shooting.... note you need a control permit to SCARE the roos...that what happens when you get the enviro types infiltrating the government department...

[Gwion]

No requirement to prove you've exhausted non-lethal methods in Tas.

I'd say best to make the permit system simple.

The blanket no take is the easiest way to stop people just shooting randomly for fun. Like, "oh, hey, there are no rabbits today, that willy-wagtail will do"...... "i shot 20 blue-capped wrens with my slug gun today!"....... etc, etc.

I know it's not popular to admit it, but there are those who behave this way and we should be looking at simple and effective ways to allow controlled take for certain species while protecting others.

[Die Judicii]

We should have controls removed from shooting roos on private property.... no season, no permits.

DEAD FLAMING RIGHT

After my previous comment before this, concerning the sort of numbers I have on my property, I would like to add that I also have one rather odd roo.

This particular roo (a female) can always be found in one small section between my house and the front gate ( 800 meters)
At first I thought it may have been old and dying, but it hasn't changed in 2 years.
It appears to be in good condition.
It never associates with other roos, (always alone), and has got quite used to us driving past it sometimes as close as 8 or 10 meters from it.
I've been nearly as close to it when walking my dog and it doesn't seem bothered at all.

I'm beginning to wonder if it may have been a pet or hand reared and then released.

[gazza]

My neighbour has a permit for 80 roos per year. Waste of meat. Fresh roo that has been feeding on green grass with access to fresh water is a different meat to what you get in the shops.

[Sender]

Out of curiosity does anyone know the ramifications of taking 'no-take' roo?

Not sending them to the local butcher of course but for personal consumption? personal pet food?

[Die Judicii]

Out of curiosity does anyone know the ramifications of taking 'no-take' roo?

Not sending them to the local butcher of course but for personal consumption? personal pet food?

This is the silly part about the whole thing,,,,,,, I'm pretty sure there is no exemption nor provision to kill roos for (unless properly licensed) human consumption, and certainly not for dog tucker.

If you get caught doing so, you may as well line up to be shot at dawn.

In fact there have been a few instances where people have been caught in the act of taking a leg off a road kill,,, and still got into trouble.

If your non commercial, and get a cull permit, they state that the carcasses must stay more or less where they fall, and left as is.

[<<Genesis93>>]

where will it end

Its like Tobacco..... you can buy it, they'll swear you'll die from it (possibly eventually)... as such - to save you from yourself theyve imposed a ridiculous excise tax on fags....they proclaim to dissuade you from smoking, whatever.

Yet if you want to do the homegrown organic thing and grow your OWN... then you'll need a licence, not from the health department, but from the Tax department. Goto ATO and it says YES you'll require a licence to grow your own product for personal consumption, follow this link.......link followed - you can NOT have a licence to produce your own for personal consumption... make sense of that......kinda like roos, there are so many that theyre perishing in the paddocks, as well as the urban roads.... yet you cant eat them...go buy your food from colesworths, be a good consumer ok!

[Die Judicii]

Out of curiosity does anyone know the ramifications of taking 'no-take' roo?

Not sending them to the local butcher of course but for personal consumption? personal pet food?

Well here you go Sender,,,
I have finally made contact with a pro shooter in my area.
I asked the question that you posed (as above)

His reply was, "There are no exceptions. Unless you have a professional harvester licence for Macropods, if you get caught shooting roo/s, the penalty can be as high as $30,000 per roo.
Added to that, a landowner can also face the possibility of forfeiting his property to the crown."

Bear in mind that this pro is obviously quoting Qld law.
However, it wouldn't be all that much different in other states I would imagine.

Probly a better idea for you to buy Fido's tucker at the supermarkets shelf full of Skippy.

[Title_II]

Totally disagree with that last statement/sentence.

Native wildlife should be protected for countless reasons. It would be easy enough for anyone wanting to hunt a particular species to acquire a permit under controlled conditions. Wholesale and free reign destruction of species is how many are driven to the brink of extinction before any protective measures can be put in place for threatened species.

"Oh, crap... there's only 5 breeding pairs of them left.... we better put them on the list... oops... Joe Blogs just shot two!"

It is much easier and safer to have a blanket "no take" policy with limited exceptions than to do it the other way around, as suggested above.

99% of animals that have walked the Earth are extinct, and it had nothing to do with human behavior. We will also be extinct (if Jesus doesn't come back), as will roos. As an Aussie, you should know that more animals are threatened due to invasive species than every day human behavior, which is responsible for almost none in the grand scheme of things.

I completely agree with proper wildlife management, but I do not agree with the idea that people are the cause of all ills in the world. It's a very dangerous idea, and it's untrue.

[Gwion]

..............

Native wildlife should be protected for countless reasons. .............

99% of animals that have walked the Earth are extinct, and it had nothing to do with human behavior.....

I completely agree with proper wildlife management, but I do not agree with the idea that people are the cause of all ills in the world. It's a very dangerous idea, and it's untrue.

Human expansion contribute significantly to species extinction at a significant rate. As for hunting pressure not contributing to extinction, that is a completely bogus statement. Yes, habitat destruction is the primary drive in modern human driven extinctions but hunting pressure has contributed to many extinctions in recent years: thylocene and white rhino are two glaring examples, as are a unique species of bat in Papua New Guinea. Look at NZ over the last 800 years and you will see countless more examples.

Your opening statement (underlined) is equivalent to saying "99.999% of all the people who ever lived are dead and it had nothing to do with Charles Manson or Ivan Milat". It may be a truism but it is supporting a completely false logic. Yes extinction is naturally occurring phenomenon but does that excuse us from knowingly contributing to it?

Also, introduced species are part of everyday human activity; by very definition. Therefore, as extension, it can be said that all extinctions caused by introduced species are, in fact, caused by human activity.

[wrenchman]

your coat of arms has been turned into vermin class animal

[Gwion]

your coat of arms has been turned into vermin class animal

That is a completely different kettle of fish caused by the human artificial expansion of what is effectively ideal habitat for those animals.

Just to balance the discussion, a lack of hunting pressure (with animals that evolved with a given level of pressure) can cause significant trickle on effects. An example is the brush-tail possum. There is a report as far back as the late 1800s of eucalypti die back in Victoria. When an interested party noted the impact over a [nominal]10 year period and enquired with the local aboriginals, the traditional inhabitants of the area attributed it to the population explosion of the brush-tail. Since their traditional hunting practices where replaced with store bought food and a move from living off the land. The possums had comprised a significant portion of the traditional winter food supply. As this hunting pressure was reduced there were consequently exponentially more possums feeding on the new eucalyptus growth each year, thereby stressing the trees and causing die back. This is isolated anecdotal evidence but illustrates well how the balance of populations within an eco-system can be easily and relatively quickly skewed by changes in human activity. Key word here being BALANCE, which is why careful and intelligent management is important.

[wrenchman]

i agree gwion careful and intelligent there is nothing intelligent about shooting any thing that can feed some one to rot.
i dont want to sound like i am judgeing any one if thats what the law is its just the way it is done when we kill like that here we pick them up and donate them to soup kitchens and food banks to feed the poor for most hunters here it is almost sacrilegious.

[Gwion]

I tend to agree. However there are other issues like hydatids etc. that the unaware may pick up. I don't know all the reasoning behind it. Some may be sound, some is likely to be as ridiculous as industry protection for the commercial game meat industry. If it is killed and cooked for personal consumption, i see no issue with it.

[gazza]

I see no issue.

[Die Judicii]

Extinction ?????????
The reverse problem is happening with the roos.
The only two ?natural predators of the roo have been removed by the white fellas.
1) Dingoes > hunted almost to extinction.
2) Indigenous food supply that is now nowhere near as staple as once was.

Thus a population explosion of roos.
Aided by stupid greenies, stupid no take laws, increased water, improved pastures and what I already mentioned,,,,, a lack of natural predators.

The biggest predator of roos now is "Trucks and Cars", but even they can't keep up with the population explosion of the roo.

The kangaroo = Multi million dollar industry. "Crash repair businesses."

[<<Genesis93>>]

Evolution.
Survival of the fittest.
Humans are the apex predator....and we are our biggest threat - that concerns me, that legions of hypnotised enviro warriors are devoting all their energies to changing and restricting human activities on account of a huge fraud (human induced climate change)....

When did the white rhino go extinct ? ?

[Gwion]

Sorry. A Correction. The Southern white rhino was brought back from near extinction, it is the Northern White Rhino that is now extinct.

Excerpt from : http://www.worldwildlife.org/species/rhino

........today very few rhinos survive outside national parks and reserves. A subspecies of the Javan rhino was declared extinct in Vietnam in 2011. A small population of the Javan rhino still clings for survival on the Indonesian island of Java........

In Africa, Southern white rhinos, once thought to be extinct, now thrive in protected sanctuaries and are classified as Near Threatened. But the Northern white rhino subspecies is believed to be extinct in the wild and only a few captive individuals remain in a sanctuary in Kenya........