enough gun?

[Gibbo]

Our family lamb farm is on the flat open plains, therefore foxes are often spotted at reasonable distance and, depending on age and experience, will regulalry not venture close enough to be within 350-400m (verified with range finder). Over the years the 223, shotgun and even 22LR has dropped plenty of stupid/curious pups over summertime who come running for the whistle.

I am hoping the more learned amongst us can offer me some advice as to the best option for more mature and cunning foxes who sit out at ranges where wind and bullet drop calculation (past MPBR of most varmint calibre) come into play:

1. buy a new rifle (243, 25-06, 260?, 6.5, 338 lol, etc) with better wind performance and less adjustment at decent range (and upgrade scope)
2. less spotlighting and more whistling - maybe even try out one o these night vision scopes on the 223
3. keep doing what we are doing - if they are too far out don't shoot at them and move on to the next one.

Currently have a 9 twist 223 with a Bushnell Hog Hunter 3-12 X 56, and old CMC 22-250 has target barrel but not overly accurate, slow moving 308 10 twist AAC SD (used on steel plates and pigs/goats/deer for hunting trips).

Thanks in advance

[sandgroperbill]

What ranges do they sit at? the 6.5s, 257 or 260 may be suitable.

[Wm.Traynor]

Zero your 223 at 350 and 400M. Make a note of the difference. Take your range finder and your 223 with you next time you go out. Wait until they are in range. Use the less accurate 22-250 for the closer shots.

[Title_II]

You will be at this forever. Get one llama or two sheep dogs. Llama works full time, sheep dogs work shifts.

[happyhunter]

You will be at this forever. Get one llama or two sheep dogs. Llama works full time, sheep dogs work shifts.

I like how you think outside the square. Maremma Sheepdogs are being used with great success for full time fox control.

[Gwion]

Yep. Maremma and alpaccas.

[Noisydad]

You will be at this forever. Get one llama or two sheep dogs. Llama works full time, sheep dogs work shifts.

While sitting on top of cliffs with their long fur over their eyes....except we don't have woolufs.

[<<Genesis93>>]

You will be at this forever. Get one llama or two sheep dogs. Llama works full time, sheep dogs work shifts.

While sitting on top of cliffs with their long fur over their eyes....except we don't have woolufs.

Ralph...... E......

[<<Genesis93>>]

Definitely 338 territory out at that range.... possibly a 50.....

Seriously though, try some heavier proj, should work with the 9t.....

[Die Judicii]

First and foremost get rid of the ba*tard bushnell, and invest in some good glass.
Zeiss Duralyt,,, (fantastic in low light and after dark) or go all out with a Schmidt & Bender.

Once you have GOOD glass, you'll never go back.

And then, as Bentaz suggested,, it's a good excuse for a new rifle.

[Gwion]

You will be at this forever. Get one llama or two sheep dogs. Llama works full time, sheep dogs work shifts.

While sitting on top of cliffs with their long fur over their eyes....except we don't have woolufs.

Haha.... and time clock on the side of a gum tree!

[Chronos]

.204R will push your MPBR out a bit and reduce your windage but at the end of the day if you learn your holdovers or elevation adjustments taking a shot another 50-100m out shouldn't be much of an issue if your accuracy is there. I've taken a few head shots with my .204R under spotlight with a bushnell set on about 12X at over 200m and it's not an issue if you have the confidence in your set up.

As long as your current rifle/scope combo is reliable and accurate I see no reason to throw money at new gear just to stretch its legs a little, by that I mean don't blow $2K on a S&B just to ghi from 200 to 250m shots, esspecially if your shooting under light.

Try and get a bit of time behind it from a probe set up (that is not from the ute mirror) and shoot some groups at 200, 250 and 300m and see if it's shooting under say 3-4" go smash them.

Chronos

[COLLECTOR 1]

No good mucking around.. AAAHHHHHHHHHHH.....this had to be a flat shooting type of rifle....25/06 or a 257 Weatherby...........decent barrel....thick and stiff

100gn projectiles,,,as fast as you can push them with the accuracy required... happy days..

COLLECTOR 1

[Elmer]

No good mucking around.. AAAHHHHHHHHHHH.....this had to be a flat shooting type of rifle....25/06 or a 257 Weatherby...........decent barrel....thick and stiff

100gn projectiles,,,as fast as you can push them with the accuracy required... happy days..

COLLECTOR 1

Ive got a sako 85 .260 s/s Lam Var, has a 8 twist and wears a Leupold VX3 8.5-25x50 I used to shoot Nos 100gn Ballistic Silvertips which averaged .20-.35" for 3 at 100yds.
This little beasty was deadly on bunnies out to 600yds and hit like a sledge...am currently working on a new load with Hornady 140gn AMAX which will handle foxes out to 1000yds.
Heres a vid of a bunny I got at 625yds https://youtu.be/Tps1wH8A_KI
cheers,
Sean.

[Gibbo]

What ranges do they sit at? the 6.5s, 257 or 260 may be suitable.

We ranged one sitting on a dam bank on Friday night at 433m. Could have had a crack with 77gr Noslers but not confident with the Bushnell scope at that range and didn't want to risk it.

[Gibbo]

Zero your 223 at 350 and 400M. Make a note of the difference. Take your range finder and your 223 with you next time you go out. Wait until they are in range. Use the less accurate 22-250 for the closer shots.

Thanks i will try this out. I think I will need to upgrade the scope as well.

[Gibbo]

Definitely 338 territory out at that range.... possibly a 50.....

Seriously though, try some heavier proj, should work with the 9t.....

Thanks I recently bought a heap of 77gr Noslers which is right on the limit of a 9 twist but will see how they go. Should handle the wind a bit better as well.

[Gibbo]

First and foremost get rid of the ba*tard bushnell, and invest in some good glass.
Zeiss Duralyt,,, (fantastic in low light and after dark) or go all out with a Schmidt & Bender.

Once you have GOOD glass, you'll never go back.

And then, as Bentaz suggested,, it's a good excuse for a new rifle.

Thanks, I agree. Need to get better glass, will look into the Zeiss or Steiners on sale online. The Bushnell is crap in low light.

[Gibbo]

.204R will push your MPBR out a bit and reduce your windage but at the end of the day if you learn your holdovers or elevation adjustments taking a shot another 50-100m out shouldn't be much of an issue if your accuracy is there. I've taken a few head shots with my .204R under spotlight with a bushnell set on about 12X at over 200m and it's not an issue if you have the confidence in your set up.

As long as your current rifle/scope combo is reliable and accurate I see no reason to throw money at new gear just to stretch its legs a little, by that I mean don't blow $2K on a S&B just to ghi from 200 to 250m shots, esspecially if your shooting under light.

Try and get a bit of time behind it from a probe set up (that is not from the ute mirror) and shoot some groups at 200, 250 and 300m and see if it's shooting under say 3-4" go smash them.

Chronos

Thanks for the feedback, I think you are right. More practice time behind the 223 and more confidence at those ranges, I am still going to look to upgrade the scope to something a bit better though. I see some good prices on Zeiss HD5 scopes and I tried out my mates Meopta Meopro on his Sako on the weekend and the difference was noticeable. My Bushnell is a hog hunter scrub scope so probably not really ideal for longer range shots.

[Gibbo]

No good mucking around.. AAAHHHHHHHHHHH.....this had to be a flat shooting type of rifle....25/06 or a 257 Weatherby...........decent barrel....thick and stiff

100gn projectiles,,,as fast as you can push them with the accuracy required... happy days..

COLLECTOR 1

I was reading that the 25s are great with wind and very flat shooting but real barrel burners.... also looked at 243s

I have 243 reloading gear and some projectiles so if was upgrading would probably go down that route

[Gibbo]

No good mucking around.. AAAHHHHHHHHHHH.....this had to be a flat shooting type of rifle....25/06 or a 257 Weatherby...........decent barrel....thick and stiff

100gn projectiles,,,as fast as you can push them with the accuracy required... happy days..

COLLECTOR 1

Ive got a sako 85 .260 s/s Lam Var, has a 8 twist and wears a Leupold VX3 8.5-25x50 I used to shoot Nos 100gn Ballistic Silvertips which averaged .20-.35" for 3 at 100yds.
This little beasty was deadly on bunnies out to 600yds and hit like a sledge...am currently working on a new load with Hornady 140gn AMAX which will handle foxes out to 1000yds.
Heres a vid of a bunny I got at 625yds https://youtu.be/Tps1wH8A_KI
cheers,
Sean.

Thanks, good to know and I will check out your video.
I would love a 260, I have an interest in the precision rifle stuff and have been thinking about a 260 or 6.5CM that could be used on steel and foxes. Maybe I could re-barrel my 308, have to look into it.
Like people are saying, any excuse for a new rifle

[Gibbo]

Sounds like a good excuse to buy a new gun.

I will give it a try.... "The ballistic experts online have advised me that my rifle doesn't shoot far enough... I need a new one...."

Will let you know how it goes

[<<Genesis93>>]

You want a 22 centrefire with a smidge more 'oomph', put down on your PTA '22 Eargesplitten loudenboomer'.... see how you go, they'll probably give you a call and say they dont have that 'calibre' on their national firearm identification database thingy...

[Gibbo]

You want a 22 centrefire with a smidge more 'oomph', put down on your PTA '22 Eargesplitten loudenboomer'.... see how you go, they'll probably give you a call and say they dont have that 'calibre' on their national firearm identification database thingy...

I was gonna put down 338 LOL but yours is better

[WayneO]

Too many calibers that can be used out to 650m to even start to mention them. Myself however, I would go 6.5 x 55.

[happyhunter]

on age and experience, will regulalry not venture close enough to be within 350-400m (verified with range finder).

Seriously dude, 204 Ruger will do that easily. At known distance (range finder) all you really need to worry about is learning to read the wind. At 400 meters 10mph wind , windage is about 5 minute of angle for the 204.. peanuts really.

[Gibbo]

on age and experience, will regulalry not venture close enough to be within 350-400m (verified with range finder).

Seriously dude, 204 Ruger will do that easily. At known distance (range finder) all you really need to worry about is learning to read the wind. At 400 meters 10mph wind , windage is about 5 minute of angle for the 204.. peanuts really.

Yeah but if I am venturing outside the 223 and 308 I would rather go 6.5 or 260. Can have a bit of fun testing them out at distance and doesn't die in the ar$e like the 204. Pretty windy where we are at times and 6.5 stuff handles the wind much better.

[MalleeFarmer]

I'm having the same issue I have a M70 FW in .22-250 not really a LR rifle and a .204 M77 Classic same deal. I used it as an excuse to build a custom 6mm SLR on a Howa action. Putting it in a GRS stock and going to use a Bushnell Scope. People say they're crap. But if you stick to their elite line they're a nice scope. I have 4 of them in different configs and I think they're pretty good. I think my biggest issue is I don't have a rangefinder.

[Gibbo]

I'm having the same issue I have a M70 FW in .22-250 not really a LR rifle and a .204 M77 Classic same deal. I used it as an excuse to build a custom 6mm SLR on a Howa action. Putting it in a GRS stock and going to use a Bushnell Scope. People say they're crap. But if you stick to their elite line they're a nice scope. I have 4 of them in different configs and I think they're pretty good. I think my biggest issue is I don't have a rangefinder.

Interesting, thanks I see you have a thread about it and I will check it out later. I have actually been looking at the 6.5 creedmoor and 260 rem, I have an interest in ranging and shooting steel so maybe something I can do more of down the track. Have been reading into the new Ruger Precision and also looking at the Savage line but haven't found anything I love just yet.

I agree with the Bushnell Elite. I had a Vortex and sold it and bought a Bushnell XRS and it was a great scope. Sold it to a mate simply because I want to get an ERS with H59 reticle.

If I won tatts I would just buy an Accuracy International... if only!

[bigfellascott]

Learn to shoot the outfit you have I reckon, that's all that's needed in this instance, not a new outfit. Set up some gongs at the longer ranges you'll more than likely be shooting at and start shooting, you'll nut it out soon enough.