Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Game hunting and large prey. Deer stalking, hunting with hounds. Boar, pigs etc., large prey, culling, hunting large feral animals.

Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by juststarting » 24 Oct 2016, 1:49 pm

Wondering about people's opinions on hunting with hounds, to cut to the point - doesn't feel like hunting. I've noticed few people posting photos of deer they shot with hounds and that got me thinking... It's not really hunting, is it? The dog is doing the work there. Human is quietly following and shooting when required. But as far as the hunt or challenge or whatever, it just doesn't seem like it's the skills of the hunter that are being used, kind of like posing with an animal shot on a farm or along those lines.

Am I missing something here? Happy to be educated if there's more to it, I suspect there is, hence asking.
---
https://reloadingstudio.com
User avatar
juststarting
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 2738
Victoria

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by Heckler303 » 24 Oct 2016, 2:02 pm

I definitely see a use in using hounds for hunting if you are going after small field game like bunnies or birdies, if you got a retriever to go and retrieve (duh), go ahead, let it pick up what you've gotten. If you are using a it for actually taking down said game, then no, I don't agree with that. That's the cruelty of mother nature. Death from man arrives at 1060 fps and kills as quick as it comes.


You still technically 'hunt' your game, and if someone wishes to take along a furry companion, I can't frankly see a problem.


Just my 2c.
Last edited by Heckler303 on 24 Oct 2016, 2:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
If something doesn't work, apply rule .303!
Title_II wrote:If you carry a fun in Australia you will go to jail.
User avatar
Heckler303
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 824
Tasmania

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by bladeracer » 24 Oct 2016, 2:11 pm

juststarting wrote:Wondering about people's opinions on hunting with hounds, to cut to the point - doesn't feel like hunting. I've noticed few people posting photos of deer they shot with hounds and that got me thinking... It's not really hunting, is it? The dog is doing the work there. Human is quietly following and shooting when required. But as far as the hunt or challenge or whatever, it just doesn't seem like it's the skills of the hunter that are being used, kind of like posing with an animal shot on a farm or along those lines.

Am I missing something here? Happy to be educated if there's more to it, I suspect there is, hence asking.



For me it goes against the very principle of hunting, don't cause fear or pain to your quarry.
My neighbour hunts sambar with hounds regularly.
A pointer that does nothing more than pick up a scent and direct you to it is about as far as I would find acceptable.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by juststarting » 24 Oct 2016, 2:38 pm

This is not what I asked. I understand why you would use a retriever or dogs for flushing birds...

I am talking about use of hounds for sniffing out a deer.
---
https://reloadingstudio.com
User avatar
juststarting
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 2738
Victoria

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by bladeracer » 24 Oct 2016, 2:45 pm

juststarting wrote:This is not what I asked. I understand why you would use a retriever or dogs for flushing birds...

I am talking about use of hounds for sniffing out a deer.


You asked about deer and that's what my comments refer to.
Flushing animals is causing them distress.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by bladeracer » 24 Oct 2016, 2:46 pm

juststarting wrote:This is not what I asked. I understand why you would use a retriever or dogs for flushing birds...

I am talking about use of hounds for sniffing out a deer.



I haven't seen any hounds that merely scent deer, they generally go nuts, baying after them.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by Chronos » 24 Oct 2016, 3:02 pm

People have been hunting game including deer with hounds for longer than they've been using guns, the last thing we as a hunting community need is more excused to split us into less powerful factions.

Question, do you really believe using a pointer is cheating? Is hunting with a mate cheating too? what about driving to the hunting grounds or using a gun at all? Maybe we should ban guns too, just buy your meat from the supermarket where no animals are harmed LOL

Chronos
User avatar
Chronos
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2082
New South Wales

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by bladeracer » 24 Oct 2016, 3:10 pm

Chronos wrote:People have been hunting game including deer with hounds for longer than they've been using guns, the last thing we as a hunting community need is more excused to split us into less powerful factions.

Question, do you really believe using a pointer is cheating? Is hunting with a mate cheating too? what about driving to the hunting grounds or using a gun at all? Maybe we should ban guns too, just buy your meat from the supermarket where no animals are harmed LOL

Chronos



We used to chase animals over cliffs to kill them, but as we evolved and invented more humane methods I don't see any legitimate reason not to use them.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by Bigjobss » 24 Oct 2016, 3:37 pm

juststarting wrote:The dog is doing the work there. Human is loudly and drunkenly following and shooting everything that moves.


Fixed it for you.
Bigjobss
 

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by Supaduke » 24 Oct 2016, 4:40 pm

Dogs are a tool like any other.
Modern camo
GPS
Long range High velocity ammo
Ballistic tips
Modern scopes
Laser range finders
Satellite imagery
Electronic game callers
If you ask a bow hunter even rifles are cheating.
I think it's simply the choice of what tools you choose to use or not use and how challenging you want your hunt to be
Supaduke
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1230
Victoria

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by Oldbloke » 24 Oct 2016, 4:59 pm

Juststartiing, hunting sambar with a hound team is far easier than stalking. I believe some teams are very efficient so a lot different to stalking. I have been out a few times years ago and I found it fun. Why don't you go out and try it. But if you don't have a 4x4 you may not get a start.
The greatest invention in the history of man is beer.
https://youtu.be/2v3QrUvYj-Y
Member. SFFP, Shooters Union.
SSAA, the powerful gun lobby. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hunt safe.
User avatar
Oldbloke
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 11192
Victoria

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by Chronos » 24 Oct 2016, 5:03 pm

bladeracer wrote:
juststarting wrote:This is not what I asked. I understand why you would use a retriever or dogs for flushing birds...

I am talking about use of hounds for sniffing out a deer.



I haven't seen any hounds that merely scent deer, they generally go nuts, baying after them.


That's not what all breeds do, there are indicating breeds like pointers that will stand at point while the hunter shoots the deer.

Let's be realistic, deer are prey and man and dogs for that matter are predators. do you think using dogs to drive game to be shot is less humane than what the dogs would do if there was no human involvement?

I was always a little suspicious of the whole pig dogging scene until i was invited on a dog hunt with a very well respected hunter and writer. I was blown away by the relationship between the handler and his dogs and found a great deal of respect for a guy who chooses to hunt in a way that predates 4WD's, guns, Bino's, GPS, satelite maps and probably the boots we wear. I think it's very important we keep stuff like that alive and oppose any attempt from anyone (even other hunters) to further restrict it

Chronos
User avatar
Chronos
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2082
New South Wales

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by happyhunter » 24 Oct 2016, 5:07 pm

juststarting wrote:Wondering about people's opinions on hunting with hounds, to cut to the point - doesn't feel like hunting. I've noticed few people posting photos of deer they shot with hounds and that got me thinking... It's not really hunting, is it? The dog is doing the work there. Human is quietly following and shooting when required. But as far as the hunt or challenge or whatever, it just doesn't seem like it's the skills of the hunter that are being used, kind of like posing with an animal shot on a farm or along those lines.

Am I missing something here? Happy to be educated if there's more to it, I suspect there is, hence asking.


It is hunting, just a different kind of hunting. Humans have used dogs to assist in the hunt for thousands of years.

I haven't used hounds for deer, but we use dogs for hunting pigs and goats, but without firearms. There's a thrill in chasing with the dogs and taking game live then having to dispatch it up close and personal is something you can't experience with a rifle.
happyhunter
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1303
Other

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by juststarting » 24 Oct 2016, 11:32 pm

wow, chill there Chronos...

Chronos wrote:People have been hunting game including deer with hounds for longer than they've been using guns, the last thing we as a hunting community need is more excused to split us into less powerful factions.

Question, do you really believe using a pointer is cheating? Is hunting with a mate cheating too? what about driving to the hunting grounds or using a gun at all? Maybe we should ban guns too, just buy your meat from the supermarket where no animals are harmed LOL


Actually, hunting with mates, that didn't even cross my mind, flushing the animals - no I don't think that's cheating, so this is why I asked, see, forum, ideas, opinions... Put dem claws back in :friends:
---
https://reloadingstudio.com
User avatar
juststarting
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 2738
Victoria

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by sandgroperbill » 24 Oct 2016, 11:53 pm

I don't hunt with dogs

BUT

Think of the training involved, the connection and mutual respect that would be required between hunter and dog, and I don't see it as easy. It's a lot of work and training with each other.

Then think that dogs and humans have pretty much evolved side by side (recent studies have shown dogs developed the ability to digest starch at the same time as humans) for something like 30000 years, and I don't see hunting with them as cheating. I see it as natural. You could probably look at it as almost symbiotic.
sandgroperbill
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1083
Western Australia

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by juststarting » 25 Oct 2016, 12:01 am

...I am looking at it as, how do I convince minister of war to get a second dog :p She said she wanted a cat instead, I said I have just the right caliber for it. That look I got, that wasn't a nice look.
---
https://reloadingstudio.com
User avatar
juststarting
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 2738
Victoria

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by pomemax » 25 Oct 2016, 12:35 am

juststarting wrote:...I am looking at it as, how do I convince minister of war to get a second dog :p She said she wanted a cat instead, I said I have just the right caliber for it. That look I got, that wasn't a nice look.

Oh goody another cat hat .
I used to have Scottish deer hounds good for exercise walking them they would walk I would run as for coursing game I could never keep up with them so when they caught I would always get there after them and dispatch if they had not already I had bull terriers they were weird to hunt with everything they caught was dead I dint think they were to bad at home but hunting , I would never trust them to back off from anything many times the pig was dead and they wanted to keep it .
As for the ethics of hunting with a hound of any type that,s sorta up to the individual and the hound some dogs don,t like to hunt same as people believe it
My own view is in years to come when they are looking for the missing link in our own evolution they will suddenly realize it mans association with hunting / hurding dogs.
dogs have owners cats have slaves
pomemax
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1165
New South Wales

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by Chronos » 25 Oct 2016, 7:11 am

juststarting wrote:wow, chill there Chronos...

Chronos wrote:People have been hunting game including deer with hounds for longer than they've been using guns, the last thing we as a hunting community need is more excused to split us into less powerful factions.

Question, do you really believe using a pointer is cheating? Is hunting with a mate cheating too? what about driving to the hunting grounds or using a gun at all? Maybe we should ban guns too, just buy your meat from the supermarket where no animals are harmed LOL


Actually, hunting with mates, that didn't even cross my mind, flushing the animals - no I don't think that's cheating, so this is why I asked, see, forum, ideas, opinions... Put dem claws back in :friends:


No claws mate, hence the quote of the supermarket line and the "LOL"

Besides hunting with your dog is better than him lying around the house like this

Image


Chronos
User avatar
Chronos
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2082
New South Wales

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by bigfellascott » 25 Oct 2016, 8:23 am

Yes!
User avatar
bigfellascott
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 5289
-

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by wrenchman » 26 Oct 2016, 1:23 am

lol my golden thinks he is a lap dog on a side note i have never hunted deer with a dog in the south it is much more common i have hunted bears with dogs
it is nice becouse if it is not a bear you want to take you pull the dog off.
I like all forms of hunting its why i like to come to this site culture and tradition tend to drive a lot of game laws here in the states when one way falls out is when there conflict among hunter and the antis will jump right up to help ban any form of hunting.
wrenchman
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1345
United States of America

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by Lorgar » 26 Oct 2016, 2:42 pm

bladeracer wrote:For me it goes against the very principle of hunting


You say that like the "principle" of hunting is a specific and universally accepted thing.

(The following comments are partly in response to this, the original post and hunting in general. Not having a go at you or anything BR)

People hunt for a variety of reasons; Some to destroy pests, some purely for the challenge, some as a combination of recreation and food gathering, some as a food source literally for their survival.

At the end of the day you're trying to accomplish a task, in any avenue of life it would be at least nonsensical, if not foolish, to deny yourself an advantage or tool to better accomplish it.

If a hunter/hound master is going hunting for food specifically, that is "I am going out in the hope of returning with food" why wouldn't he use his dogs? Why would he decrease his chance of success by not using them?

There are folk who live in the northern parts of the world who need to fill their meat lockers with deer before winter cuts them off from the world for months, who will literally starve if they fail. It would be foolishness of the highest order (and potentially fatal) not to use every advantage at their disposal. Be that dogs or otherwise.

A rifle hunter can argue that using dogs isn't sporting. By that logic you should accept the assertion by a bow-hunter that using a rifle isn't sporting. Anyone who can hunt with a spear would be equally right in saying hunting with a bow isn't sporting. If you accept the first assertion you have to accept the rest going down the chain until you're talking about wrestling them with your bare hands and teeth.

I'm not advocating the use of dogs here, or otherwise, but "principles" are a personal thing, not a practical one. And principles have to give way to realities at times.

You're needs and what you find acceptable may not be applicable to people in other situations, or hunting for other reasons.

There is more than one kind of hunting out there.
Last edited by Lorgar on 18 Jan 2017, 2:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Lorgar
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2156
Victoria

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by bladeracer » 26 Oct 2016, 2:55 pm

Read my statement again, I think I was fairly clear about it being a personal view ;-)
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by Lorgar » 26 Oct 2016, 2:58 pm

Yes indeed, friend. Quite clear.

I then said, with equal clarity, that my comments we partly in response to you, the original post and on the subject of hunting in general.

:D :friends:
User avatar
Lorgar
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2156
Victoria

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by bladeracer » 26 Oct 2016, 3:28 pm

Lorgar wrote:Yes indeed, friend. Quite clear.

I then said, with equal clarity, that my comments we partly in response to you, the original post and on the subject of hunting in general.

:D :friends:



Yes, you did indeed :-)
I was merely responding to your specific response to my statement before your clear statement about your general comments.

All good here, just put ten rounds through the .303 using the Hornady .312" 100gn XTP :-)
:clap:
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by Blackened » 26 Oct 2016, 3:41 pm

This is the kind of "argument" we like to see :lol:
User avatar
Blackened
Moderator
 
New South Wales

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by bladeracer » 26 Oct 2016, 4:16 pm

Blackened wrote:This is the kind of "argument" we like to see :lol:



I try to set a good example...but usually of what not to do ;-)
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by tom604 » 28 Oct 2016, 4:20 pm

yes, hunting with hounds is hunting,,the same as hunting with a bow/gun/spear/apple is hunting,,they are just tools to help hunters to have a successful hunt :thumbsup:









the apple is to keep you healthy as in an apple a day :P
User avatar
tom604
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1053
South Australia

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 28 Oct 2016, 6:03 pm

Chronos wrote:
juststarting wrote:wow, chill there Chronos...

Chronos wrote:People have been hunting game including deer with hounds for longer than they've been using guns, the last thing we as a hunting community need is more excused to split us into less powerful factions.

Question, do you really believe using a pointer is cheating? Is hunting with a mate cheating too? what about driving to the hunting grounds or using a gun at all? Maybe we should ban guns too, just buy your meat from the supermarket where no animals are harmed LOL


Actually, hunting with mates, that didn't even cross my mind, flushing the animals - no I don't think that's cheating, so this is why I asked, see, forum, ideas, opinions... Put dem claws back in :friends:


No claws mate, hence the quote of the supermarket line and the "LOL"

Besides hunting with your dog is better than him lying around the house like this

Image


Chronos


That would be Apollo right Steve??
What a lay SOB... :lol:

Hunting with dogs is a most natural form of hunting....man mastering beast, to hunt another beast for food.... doesnt get any better than that..

Dogs hunting a pig, man sticking it.... though I've never done it before, thats more than fair as far as the chase goes...no qualms here

Pointers, done that a few times and I thing its a beautiful thing, when the dog understands its role to assist the master...its amazing to see a well trained pointer, point to the birds - and it know the master must be quick... then to retrieve. The behaviour of quail are equally amazing...
<<Genesis93>>
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2191
-

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by <<Genesis93>> » 28 Oct 2016, 6:49 pm

silly me...I forgot he can't see my posts, I'm on his foe list as a result of being traumatised by me.

Come on Steve.... friends ?? :unknown: :friends: :lol: :lol:

(luckily he can neither see this one)
<<Genesis93>>
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2191
-

Re: Hunting with hounds, is it really hunting?

Post by WhelanLad » 17 Jan 2017, 12:50 pm

good post, controversial if posted elsewhere, this forum seems a bit more laid back, or lack of hound hunters?

each to their own on the HH , I personally like deer a bit too much and don't like to see them all stressed out an run to the end, bailed an shot..
the 'hunters' are about numbers length and causalities.. eek. I agree with what ya thinking.... BUT not everyone does think the same an it is still Legal and one point the HoundCrews are good at.. is reducing Deer numbers without doubt. and thatsa good thing.


Pointing Dogs are a different story, all good aslong as they arnt chasing IMO.
I'm not huge on pig hunting with dogs either, but as flushers and such, makes good sense for all game. land or air.

cheers.
Last edited by WhelanLad on 17 Jan 2017, 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WhelanLad
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 37
Victoria

Next

Back to top
 
Return to Hunting - Game hunting and large prey