head shots vs heart/lung

Game hunting and large prey. Deer stalking, hunting with hounds. Boar, pigs etc., large prey, culling, hunting large feral animals.

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by Stix » 30 May 2018, 8:05 pm

Yes mate from a rested position im talking about...
Only time im off the shoulder is with 12g on bunnies or a stalk up to a mob of goats.
Ah maybe the very occasional dumb fox that pops its head up suddenly wondering what the bright light is 20 yds from the car if spotlighting.

And im lucky to hit a double decker bus after a heavy hike up a mountain...may as well chuck rocks until the heart rate is back down a touch & get some oxygen back in those veins...!!!
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3675
South Australia

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by Bigjobss » 30 May 2018, 8:06 pm

The half dozen sambar Ive taken I have had between 3-8 seconds to take the shot, no headshots or rest option for me, its the nature of stalking sambar in the hills :drinks: best I can hope for is dropping a knee and is why I practice at the range offhand, seated, prone etc but not on a bench.
Fallow Ive been able to snipe a couple, they seem to give you a bit more time.
Bigjobss
 

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by bigrich » 30 May 2018, 8:52 pm

Stix wrote:Yes mate from a rested position im talking about...
Only time im off the shoulder is with 12g on bunnies or a stalk up to a mob of goats.
Ah maybe the very occasional dumb fox that pops its head up suddenly wondering what the bright light is 20 yds from the car if spotlighting.

And im lucky to hit a double decker bus after a heavy hike up a mountain...may as well chuck rocks until the heart rate is back down a touch & get some oxygen back in those veins...!!!


i have done some shots where i've sighted up over a car bonnet or propped against a tree.longest shot i've taken so far was a billy standing on a big boulder at at least 140 yards, one shot through right side of chest, exited just before rear leg. 6.5's have great penetration ( probably too good, gotta start hand loading 140 nosler partitions ). makes it bloody interesting stalking/chasing them up. paper targets at the range don't get twitchy and run :lol: :lol: :lol: :drinks:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4485
Queensland

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by Apollo » 30 May 2018, 10:05 pm

Goat shooting (even a big Billy) with a 6.5mm at short range (140y) really with a 140gr. I've gotta give up thinking reality. Wow, overkill by miles.

I'm getting too old. I thought a 6mm 90gr at 200 plus was a medium range idea and mostly a typical much lesser calibre range.

I'm not a professional shooter, I just shoot vermin about every second day (morning or night) and it's use anything handy to steady with and make 200m plus shots from Rabbits to rather large Grey Grasshoppers. Crows are fun at 300m plus with a light 70gr 6mm and no. I have no I don't aim for a head shot but then there isn't much left to figure out where the bullet hit.

The question of "Head Shot vs Heart/Lung" well that depends on what you are shooting and at what distance. But, the big factor is how experienced you are and I'm reading here a lot of inexperience in comments. Heart/Lung shots tend a fraction to be caused by shooters that do not have the confidence to make a head shot and/or don't have the correct gear/calibre. Don't know..!!

Oh, sorry... I think I had some comment in mind about the "Head" vs "Brain" shot... Hmm, same difference with anything I use. Aim eg on a Grey Roo just below the eyes and hit there...that's a head shot that eg with a .204R at 150m is what entry hole...but nothing left of the opposite side of the skull...36gr Varmint Grenade.

If you are going to argue about either or not of the two topics then you need to add a lot of circumstances into which shot you take and why against the experience you have or know for certain the person taking the shot has.

Target shooters, especially long range target shooters generally are the best long range hunters/varminters and one of Australia's best target shooters very much enjoys his long distance varmint/hunting.
Apollo
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1327
New South Wales

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by brett1868 » 30 May 2018, 10:17 pm

A lot of my shots are done prone from the tray of the Rattler using a bipod and sand bags, everything has been ranged and a dope card prepared. I'm too old and broken for stalking in the bush so I just sit and wait for the fur to wander into range these days. If I'm feeling right and all the variables are aligned I'll possibly take a long shot if appropriately equipped, my usual choice of caliber is either the 375Cheytac with a 350gr JHP or the 416 Barrett with a 450gr JHP for this type of shooting. Both cartridges are more then capable of detonating the chest cavity of the local pest animals out to the property boundary. Much will also depend on how much and recent game / pest shooting you've been doing, nothing beats trigger time for improving the shooting skills.
How's my posting?
Complaints, Concerns - 13 11 14
User avatar
brett1868
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3017
New South Wales

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by Bigjobss » 30 May 2018, 10:24 pm

brett1868 wrote:I just sit and wait for the fur to wander into range these days.

My preffered tactic when I used to go bar hopping.
Bigjobss
 

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by Apollo » 30 May 2018, 10:34 pm

Bigjobss wrote:
brett1868 wrote:I just sit and wait for the fur to wander into range these days.

My preffered tactic when I used to go bar hopping.


My preferred tactic to but ...unlike Brett I use something way much smaller in calibre and perhaps more accurate than he is using.
Apollo
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1327
New South Wales

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by Stix » 30 May 2018, 10:35 pm

I dont know much about 6.5's or what projectile you're using rich...or nos partitions for that matter.
But id try a really light frangible projectile for goats-they really are just a fox with a hard head/or sometimes a really big fox--pretty soft animals really so you dont wana use heavy bullets on em.
I had all sorts of trouble with Sierra 120 game kings in 7mm pencilling through them, so im on the Vmax 120 bt's now :thumbsup: , & ill try speer 110 tnt's next.
Maybe try the Speer's too rich for the goats.

The 140+yd shot sounds a good one rich... :thumbsup: (im in withdrawl--havnt shot a goat for 7 months :cry: ).
Practice shots like that out to 200yds putting yourself under pressure & you'll be head shootin in no time & enjoyin a full goat on your spit...maybe even throw a coopers in the dripping pan before dunking the crusty loaf eh... :drinks:
Last edited by Stix on 30 May 2018, 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3675
South Australia

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by Apollo » 30 May 2018, 10:40 pm

brett1868 wrote:A lot of my shots are done prone from the tray of the Rattler using a bipod and sand bags, everything has been ranged and a dope card prepared. I'm too old and broken for stalking in the bush so I just sit and wait for the fur to wander into range these days. If I'm feeling right and all the variables are aligned I'll possibly take a long shot if appropriately equipped, my usual choice of caliber is either the 375Cheytac with a 350gr JHP or the 416 Barrett with a 450gr JHP for this type of shooting. Both cartridges are more then capable of detonating the chest cavity of the local pest animals out to the property boundary. Much will also depend on how much and recent game / pest shooting you've been doing, nothing beats trigger time for improving the shooting skills.


You had better try out some 500m Fly Shooting... No muzzle breaks allowed.... :clap:
Apollo
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1327
New South Wales

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by brett1868 » 30 May 2018, 10:43 pm

My preferred tactic to but ...unlike Brett I use something way much smaller in calibre and perhaps more accurate than he is using.


Despite what she tells you old mate....size does matter :lol:
How's my posting?
Complaints, Concerns - 13 11 14
User avatar
brett1868
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3017
New South Wales

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by Stix » 30 May 2018, 10:45 pm

Bigjobss wrote:
brett1868 wrote:I just sit and wait for the fur to wander into range these days.

My preffered tactic when I used to go bar hopping.


We dont need to know your foreplay methods with the missus brett...!! :lol:
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3675
South Australia

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by Bigjobss » 30 May 2018, 10:46 pm

Apollo wrote:
Bigjobss wrote:
brett1868 wrote:I just sit and wait for the fur to wander into range these days.

My preffered tactic when I used to go bar hopping.


My preferred tactic to but ...unlike Brett I use something way much smaller in calibre and perhaps more accurate than he is using.


So you have an average sized calibre but you know how to use it?
Bigjobss
 

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by Apollo » 30 May 2018, 10:58 pm

Bigjobss wrote:
Apollo wrote:
Bigjobss wrote:
brett1868 wrote:I just sit and wait for the fur to wander into range these days.

My preffered tactic when I used to go bar hopping.


My preferred tactic to but ...unlike Brett I use something way much smaller in calibre and perhaps more accurate than he is using.


So you have an average sized calibre but you know how to use it?


Yes, I have and average size calibre (.22 or 6mm) and yes I know how to use it. I also know how to use something slightly larger like a 6.5mm and can put 5 shots into a best of 30mm 5 shot group at 500 metres. It doesn't happen all the time but I'm pretty handy shooting with the best.

There are a number of Grey Grasshoppers here that have a 6.5mm Headache at 500 metres. (6.5x47 Lapua) Just happen to visit my 500m practise range. :thumbsup: Bullets are 123, 130 gr.
Apollo
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1327
New South Wales

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by Bigjobss » 30 May 2018, 11:13 pm

Good work, no better feeling than throwing a full 6.5" pay load down range and hitting the bullseye.
Bigjobss
 

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by bigrich » 31 May 2018, 7:04 am

Stix wrote:I dont know much about 6.5's or what projectile you're using rich...or nos partitions for that matter.
But id try a really light frangible projectile for goats-they really are just a fox with a hard head/or sometimes a really big fox--pretty soft animals really so you dont wana use heavy bullets on em.
I had all sorts of trouble with Sierra 120 game kings in 7mm pencilling through them, so im on the Vmax 120 bt's now :thumbsup: , & ill try speer 110 tnt's next.
Maybe try the Speer's too rich for the goats.

The 140+yd shot sounds a good one rich... :thumbsup: (im in withdrawl--havnt shot a goat for 7 months :cry: ).
Practice shots like that out to 200yds putting yourself under pressure & you'll be head shootin in no time & enjoyin a full goat on your spit...maybe even throw a coopers in the dripping pan before dunking the crusty loaf eh... :drinks:


Main reason I’m packing heavy rounds is coz I got onto norma factory ammo cheap, and there are red deer and large pigs in the area. If I was specifically after goats I’d probably just stalk in under 100 and head shoot with my 22 hornet. Better to be over gunned than under I reckon
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4485
Queensland

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by marksman » 31 May 2018, 11:41 am

Stix wrote:The 140+yd shot sounds a good one rich... :thumbsup: (im in withdrawl--havnt shot a goat for 7 months :cry: ).
Practice shots like that out to 200yds putting yourself under pressure & you'll be head shootin in no time & enjoyin a full goat on your spit...maybe even throw a coopers in the dripping pan before dunking the crusty loaf eh... :drinks:


your dead right stix practice is the key to shooting more precisely at longer distance and getting confidence to be able to take the shot
I haven't for a while but do put golf balls out at 200-300 to practice, of late I shoot rabbits in the head at distance for really good practice :allegedly:
my children are taught by doing the same practice as me, starting off with swinging targets at 50 with a rimfire then 100 minimum with a centrefire
it can be like a obsessive disease shooting at distance, once you start hitting you want more and cant get enough :thumbsup:
how I used to practice for off the shoulder for shorter shots was to do drill dot targets at 50 and clays with a shotgun,
drill dots are excellent because you are not trying to get a tiny group you are trying to hit the target once quickly off the shoulder, 22 is cheap
some are not into it and that's fine, we all hunt our way and if everyone else is happy so am I :drinks:
but bang flop is the desired effect
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by Member-Deleted » 31 May 2018, 11:50 am

G'day Apollo , Mate this rifle your shooting 5 shots into 30mm @ 500m wouldn't be stock standard would it
That's some shooting there in any ones eyes mate , well done, I take it your a target shooter?
Member-Deleted
 

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by bigrich » 31 May 2018, 4:26 pm

marksman wrote:
Stix wrote:The 140+yd shot sounds a good one rich... :thumbsup: (im in withdrawl--havnt shot a goat for 7 months :cry: ).
Practice shots like that out to 200yds putting yourself under pressure & you'll be head shootin in no time & enjoyin a full goat on your spit...maybe even throw a coopers in the dripping pan before dunking the crusty loaf eh... :drinks:


your dead right stix practice is the key to shooting more precisely at longer distance and getting confidence to be able to take the shot
I haven't for a while but do put golf balls out at 200-300 to practice, of late I shoot rabbits in the head at distance for really good practice :allegedly:
my children are taught by doing the same practice as me, starting off with swinging targets at 50 with a rimfire then 100 minimum with a centrefire
it can be like a obsessive disease shooting at distance, once you start hitting you want more and cant get enough :thumbsup:
how I used to practice for off the shoulder for shorter shots was to do drill dot targets at 50 and clays with a shotgun,
drill dots are excellent because you are not trying to get a tiny group you are trying to hit the target once quickly off the shoulder, 22 is cheap
some are not into it and that's fine, we all hunt our way and if everyone else is happy so am I :drinks:
but bang flop is the desired effect


i like your shooting practice ideas MM. just recently started clays with the shotty. when i get tired of paper and groups i put a couple of clays on the bank at 100 at my local range and shoot them in half, qaurters, eights, etc. with my hornet. bit more fun than "groups". golf balls at 300 is bloody good shootin' mate :thumbsup: i can average 1" at 100 with my 6.5, 2 1/4" at 200. good enough for a hunting rifle. bit different shooting at twitchy , live moving targets in the feild. i need more practice :lol: :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4485
Queensland

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by bigrich » 31 May 2018, 4:28 pm

grandadbushy wrote:G'day Apollo , Mate this rifle your shooting 5 shots into 30mm @ 500m wouldn't be stock standard would it
That's some shooting there in any ones eyes mate , well done, I take it your a target shooter?


wow ! laser guided bullets maybe ? :lol: that's some skill, must be quite a rifle and scope as well. love your work :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4485
Queensland

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by Apollo » 31 May 2018, 9:07 pm

grandadbushy wrote:G'day Apollo , Mate this rifle your shooting 5 shots into 30mm @ 500m wouldn't be stock standard would it
That's some shooting there in any ones eyes mate , well done, I take it your a target shooter?


You got it, it's a custom made target rifle for Benchrest. Stolle Grizzly II in a Kelbly 1M Benchrest Stock and wears an 8-80x56mm March Scope. Designed for the 500 Metre Fly Competition.

It's a bit off tune at present due to a problem with bullets. Initially in testing and practise at 200 metres it would shoot consistantly 0.2" 5 shots groups and now it's about double that which is not good enough by a long shot. Have a supply of different bullets that look like it may get back to initial accuracy, just have not had time to finish testing. Waiting for an ideal day as well with no wind or mirage.
Apollo
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1327
New South Wales

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by Stix » 31 May 2018, 11:34 pm

marksman wrote:
Stix wrote:The 140+yd shot sounds a good one rich... :thumbsup: (im in withdrawl--havnt shot a goat for 7 months :cry: ).
Practice shots like that out to 200yds putting yourself under pressure & you'll be head shootin in no time & enjoyin a full goat on your spit...maybe even throw a coopers in the dripping pan before dunking the crusty loaf eh... :drinks:


your dead right stix practice is the key to shooting more precisely at longer distance and getting confidence to be able to take the shot
I haven't for a while but do put golf balls out at 200-300 to practice, of late I shoot rabbits in the head at distance for really good practice :allegedly:
my children are taught by doing the same practice as me, starting off with swinging targets at 50 with a rimfire then 100 minimum with a centrefire
it can be like a obsessive disease shooting at distance, once you start hitting you want more and cant get enough :thumbsup:
how I used to practice for off the shoulder for shorter shots was to do drill dot targets at 50 and clays with a shotgun,
drill dots are excellent because you are not trying to get a tiny group you are trying to hit the target once quickly off the shoulder, 22 is cheap
some are not into it and that's fine, we all hunt our way and if everyone else is happy so am I :drinks:
but bang flop is the desired effect


Wow...even your kids on swinging targets eh...with Dad AND his daughter shooting like that, the future son-in-law better watch himself then...!!! :lol:

When i was a kid we (ol'man & i) would sometimes call into the rural rubbish tips near properties we were hunting (back in the day when no one went there & you could go in them & let off some of Bretts barrels & no one would give a hoot), and the ol'man would set up 7-9 bottles &/or cans & tell me to shoot them as quick as i can-sometimes from rest & sometimes off the shoulder.
I grew up having to head shoot bunnies for food, & thats stuck with me throughout life (well until my recent fox fur fetish).
I dont really get to practice much at all these days, but last time up the farm i put some water filled cans out at 50, 100 & 200 & let the farmer have a crack with the 204 & 22-250...we had a blast--he got right into it and loved seeing that water filled can explode at 200 with a 4' jump in the air with the 22-250.

Sometimes to have a break when target shooting up the farm, i throw the flip target out at 50 & have a rapid fire 10 shot crack at it as fast as possible with the 22 off the shoulder--my last trip out i did just that & didn't know the farmer was walking up to me from behind--thankfully i flipped that little orange sucker all 10 times... :D :lol: (i rekon atleast one of the hits was the stem though...hehe...ill call that one a neck shot if it were a bunny)

I like to put myself under pressure when practicing sometimes (when i have the time)...set up target(s) say 100, 150 & 200 but have the rifle & heavy bag on the back seat & me in the drivers seat...try psych myself that its an actual fox & set a time limit of say 25-30 seconds to get the bag & rifle out over the bonnet & get 3 shots off as quick as possible & hit all three concentrating on technique & the recoil through the scope..i usually try & get one dry fire in there at the beginning too...i like to think its good practice for the sudden pressure shot, but still i cant help but thinking of the fox i missed at under 20 yds this time last year :lol: :lol: :lol: :clap:

I like the idea of golf balls, but (i think) my rifles are'nt that accurate to be hitting them at or beyond 300...i just cant seem to get any of them shooting as accurate as i want.
But, it looks like im off to the reject shop for a box of golf balls...!
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3675
South Australia

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by Stix » 31 May 2018, 11:40 pm

bigrich wrote:
Stix wrote:I dont know much about 6.5's or what projectile you're using rich...or nos partitions for that matter.
But id try a really light frangible projectile for goats-they really are just a fox with a hard head/or sometimes a really big fox--pretty soft animals really so you dont wana use heavy bullets on em.
I had all sorts of trouble with Sierra 120 game kings in 7mm pencilling through them, so im on the Vmax 120 bt's now :thumbsup: , & ill try speer 110 tnt's next.
Maybe try the Speer's too rich for the goats.

The 140+yd shot sounds a good one rich... :thumbsup: (im in withdrawl--havnt shot a goat for 7 months :cry: ).
Practice shots like that out to 200yds putting yourself under pressure & you'll be head shootin in no time & enjoyin a full goat on your spit...maybe even throw a coopers in the dripping pan before dunking the crusty loaf eh... :drinks:


Main reason I’m packing heavy rounds is coz I got onto norma factory ammo cheap, and there are red deer and large pigs in the area. If I was specifically after goats I’d probably just stalk in under 100 and head shoot with my 22 hornet. Better to be over gunned than under I reckon


Fairy nuff...!! :thumbsup:
Hit hard bone with those heavy buggers then-their heads are hard--a heavy outa the 6.5 would automatically bleed the goat for ya too...!! 8-)

Anyway, doesnt sound to me like you need that hornet... :unknown:
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3675
South Australia

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by bigrich » 01 Jun 2018, 7:08 am

Stix, I’ll be keeping a eye out for any sly looking characters with a fox fur hat and South Australian number plates on their car , wild eyed and muttering about “hornets” with a bag of second hand golf balls :lol: tried a box of win 46 gr hp at 100 and was getting well under 1” groups. I was pretty chuffed. My shell holder for my press turned up just yesterday so will start reloading hornet soon :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigrich
Brigadier
Brigadier
 
Posts: 4485
Queensland

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by Stix » 01 Jun 2018, 4:33 pm

bigrich wrote: tried a box of win 46 gr hp at 100 and was getting well under 1” groups. I was pretty chuffed. My shell holder for my press turned up just yesterday so will start reloading hornet soon :thumbsup:


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3675
South Australia

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by bigfellascott » 01 Jun 2018, 5:34 pm

I wouldn’t have a prob shooting goats with s 6.5 I’d happy shoot em with my 308 if one decided to wonder into range. Dead’s dead no matter what you use on em, happy to shoot em with my 204 too same as deer so long as shot placement is good why the hell not I say. :unknown:
User avatar
bigfellascott
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 5289
-

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by SCJ429 » 02 Jun 2018, 2:04 pm

Wow, at most Fly shoots if you can shoot five groups in a row anywhere near the fly that measure 30mm, 1.2 inches you would be looking good for a win. You must be great at reading the wind. I cannot believe you are using a projectiles bigger than .243. I am concentrating on getting 25 shots onto the paper that all score points, a three inch group in the centre of the target is a great achievement with my little Tikka. Go the Stolle, is it chambered in 6.5 x 47?
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3208
New South Wales

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by Bigjobss » 02 Jun 2018, 4:24 pm

bigfellascott wrote:I wouldn’t have a prob shooting goats with s 6.5 I’d happy shoot em with my 308 if one decided to wonder into range. Dead’s dead no matter what you use on em, happy to shoot em with my 204 too same as deer so long as shot placement is good why the hell not I say. :unknown:


Dead is dead.
I fallow or pig hunt 3-4 times a year and use my 300wm, im not buying another rifle, just change cartidges and shot placement.
Bigjobss
 

Re: head shots vs heart/lung

Post by bigfellascott » 02 Jun 2018, 10:49 pm

Bigjobss wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:I wouldn’t have a prob shooting goats with s 6.5 I’d happy shoot em with my 308 if one decided to wonder into range. Dead’s dead no matter what you use on em, happy to shoot em with my 204 too same as deer so long as shot placement is good why the hell not I say. :unknown:


Dead is dead.
I fallow or pig hunt 3-4 times a year and use my 300wm, im not buying another rifle, just change cartidges and shot placement.


Yeah can't be fussy too much hey, if the shot presents and you have enough gun have at it I say. :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigfellascott
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 5289
-

Previous

Back to top
 
Return to Hunting - Game hunting and large prey