MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 11 Jan 2018, 1:09 pm

Gamerancher wrote:For small-bore lever gun targets, ammo that has a 40gr bullet @ 1100 - 1200f/s M.V seems to work best on rams. They can sometimes be hard to knock down, especially if someone has set them incorrectly or there is a breeze from behind them. Even a wet rail from rain can make them harder to knock over.
Have you tried any Federal Auto-match? A lot of us have gotten good results with it.
Have you and your brother given any thought to coming to the Early Australia Day silhouette at Majura 19,20,21 January?
Scoped match, air rifle on Friday, .22 on Saturday and centre-fire Sunday.
I suppose with your ribs it might be a bit of an ask to travel up and compete. See if your brother can make it, even if just to have a look.


So far I haven't been concerned about knocking them over (although the .44 does that with vigor!). I figure I can't knock over what I can't hit, so I'm concentrating on getting the hits for now :-)

Federal Auto Match is not one I tested so I'm guessing it's not very common. I just rang my local and he doesn't show it as available from NIOA, but he's going to call them and try to get me a box to try.

The CCI SV makes about 70ft/lb of energy at 100m, the Velocitor makes 100ft/lb.
40% more energy has got to help surely. I note that the rules disallow "hyper-velocity" rimfire ammo - any idea how they define that? Technically it means over 10,000fps which seems unlikely :-)

We hadn't thought about it much but I've reminded him and he might be up for a look, not me though, at least it doesn't look possible right now.
I'm staying ahead of my minimum 100rds per day practice on the silhouettes and have an FP336 peep sight coming next week for the Marlin.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 11 Jan 2018, 7:44 pm

Well, I decided to take the old 1950 BSA Sportsman 5 out for today's practice - wow!
A fairly wide V-notch but a very fine front blade make for a great sight picture - I could still see the edge of the turkey on both sides of the blade. The trigger is possibly not quite as good as the Ruger but is certainly better than the Norinco. If I put a rear aperture on this I'd probably hit everything I aimed it at :-)
Holding on the bottom edge of the pig's and chicken's bellies puts the bullets on them nicely. Dead-on hold on the Turkey but I had to hold below the feet on the ram with the CCI SV. So I tried Highland Target which is high-velocity, and they gave me hits on the ram with a dead-on hold. I've already tried the Target in the Norinco but they don't cycle at all.
9/10 chicken
19/20 pig
24/35 turkey
30/40 ram
On both the turkey and ram I shot at least one 5rd mag with no misses.
Today's effort is going to be an uphill climb for the Norinco to match I think :-)
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by Strikey » 12 Jan 2018, 8:20 am

bladeracer wrote:
Gamerancher wrote:For small-bore lever gun targets, ammo that has a 40gr bullet @ 1100 - 1200f/s M.V seems to work best on rams. They can sometimes be hard to knock down, especially if someone has set them incorrectly or there is a breeze from behind them. Even a wet rail from rain can make them harder to knock over.
Have you tried any Federal Auto-match? A lot of us have gotten good results with it.
Have you and your brother given any thought to coming to the Early Australia Day silhouette at Majura 19,20,21 January?
Scoped match, air rifle on Friday, .22 on Saturday and centre-fire Sunday.
I suppose with your ribs it might be a bit of an ask to travel up and compete. See if your brother can make it, even if just to have a look.


So far I haven't been concerned about knocking them over (although the .44 does that with vigor!). I figure I can't knock over what I can't hit, so I'm concentrating on getting the hits for now :-)

Federal Auto Match is not one I tested so I'm guessing it's not very common. I just rang my local and he doesn't show it as available from NIOA, but he's going to call them and try to get me a box to try.

The CCI SV makes about 70ft/lb of energy at 100m, the Velocitor makes 100ft/lb.
40% more energy has got to help surely. I note that the rules disallow "hyper-velocity" rimfire ammo - any idea how they define that? Technically it means over 10,000fps which seems unlikely :-)

We hadn't thought about it much but I've reminded him and he might be up for a look, not me though, at least it doesn't look possible right now.
I'm staying ahead of my minimum 100rds per day practice on the silhouettes and have an FP336 peep sight coming next week for the Marlin.


The rules disallow hyper velocity ammo such as CCI Stingers, more chance of ricochets and target damage other than that anyone using it will only handicap themselves as it generally isn't very accurate past 50m.
I have been following this post with interest and I am glad you are practicing lever action silhouette with some vigour but am a bit concerned about the method, if I can offer one piece of advice I recommend you get along to a properly run silhouette match to get a good grasp of it, Gamerancher has suggested going up to Canberra in a couple of weeks, the Early Australia Day shoot is possibly the most well attended event in the country and is a bloody enjoyable weekend :thumbsup:
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by Gamerancher » 12 Jan 2018, 8:23 am

"Hyper Velocity" is basically .22LR ammo that is above 1400f/s M.V.
Stingers , Yellow Jacket, Vipers, etc are all considered "Hyper" velocity and not allowed. If your Velocitor ammo is above 1400 f/s I'd be looking to use something else.

Sight picture is paramount in this game, "you can't hit what you can't see", really does apply.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jan 2018, 9:38 am

Strikey wrote:The rules disallow hyper velocity ammo such as CCI Stingers, more chance of ricochets and target damage other than that anyone using it will only handicap themselves as it generally isn't very accurate past 50m.
I have been following this post with interest and I am glad you are practicing lever action silhouette with some vigour but am a bit concerned about the method, if I can offer one piece of advice I recommend you get along to a properly run silhouette match to get a good grasp of it, Gamerancher has suggested going up to Canberra in a couple of weeks, the Early Australia Day shoot is possibly the most well attended event in the country and is a bloody enjoyable weekend :thumbsup:


Thanks Strikey :-)
Can you elucidate on my methodology at all?
For now I'm concentrating on improving my offhand abilities with iron sights rather than practicing for a specific match. The silhouettes merely add some novelty value over shooting at the usual circular targets. The national championship is merely giving me a time goal, although I do intend to shoot the comp if at all possible.
I'm not going to get to this Canberra match as Rose is taking her mum up to Bendigo leaving me here to watch the cows. My brother though is going to try to get along for a look.
I've never been one to compete in anything for medals, even motorcycle racing I was only ever trying to beat myself and become a better rider than I was the day before.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jan 2018, 10:15 am

Gamerancher wrote:"Hyper Velocity" is basically .22LR ammo that is above 1400f/s M.V.
Stingers , Yellow Jacket, Vipers, etc are all considered "Hyper" velocity and not allowed. If your Velocitor ammo is above 1400 f/s I'd be looking to use something else.

Sight picture is paramount in this game, "you can't hit what you can't see", really does apply.


Thanks Gamerancher, that does rule out the Velocitor.
I'm going to take a file to the Norinco's front sight for sure :-)
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by Strikey » 12 Jan 2018, 4:29 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Strikey wrote:The rules disallow hyper velocity ammo such as CCI Stingers, more chance of ricochets and target damage other than that anyone using it will only handicap themselves as it generally isn't very accurate past 50m.
I have been following this post with interest and I am glad you are practicing lever action silhouette with some vigour but am a bit concerned about the method, if I can offer one piece of advice I recommend you get along to a properly run silhouette match to get a good grasp of it, Gamerancher has suggested going up to Canberra in a couple of weeks, the Early Australia Day shoot is possibly the most well attended event in the country and is a bloody enjoyable weekend :thumbsup:


Thanks Strikey :-)
Can you elucidate on my methodology at all?
For now I'm concentrating on improving my offhand abilities with iron sights rather than practicing for a specific match. The silhouettes merely add some novelty value over shooting at the usual circular targets. The national championship is merely giving me a time goal, although I do intend to shoot the comp if at all possible.
I'm not going to get to this Canberra match as Rose is taking her mum up to Bendigo leaving me here to watch the cows. My brother though is going to try to get along for a look.
I've never been one to compete in anything for medals, even motorcycle racing I was only ever trying to beat myself and become a better rider than I was the day before.


Bladeracer, hope you didn't take offence, when I started silhouette many years ago I too just went out and practiced "randomly" but silhouette is for want of a better term a team sport, the shooter relies on his/her spotter to call your shot, trying to concentrate on your target with others shooting in close proximity while not burning up your time to get the five shots away is a challenge, if conditions are windy, raining etc or your rifle/ammo has a malfunction than that 2mins ( CLAS ) or 2 1/2mins ( RMS) suddenly becomes very short, can be a bit daunting for new shooters.
Gamerancher's comment about sight picture is very useful for silhouette, with rimfire follow through is the key, the high velocity rimfire ammo causes too much muzzle flip so you lose your sight picture to reference where your spotter tells you the shot went.
I like your attitude not being concerned with medals or placing, I stopped looking at the scoreboard years ago and only compete against myself at least trying to equal or better my last score, I look at the scores at the end of an event and it is what it is, far better to just enjoy the shooting although silhouette can be bloody frustrating but addictive and the sport has given me some very good friends :drinks: :drinks:
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jan 2018, 4:58 pm

Strikey wrote:Bladeracer, hope you didn't take offence, when I started silhouette many years ago I too just went out and practiced "randomly" but silhouette is for want of a better term a team sport, the shooter relies on his/her spotter to call your shot, trying to concentrate on your target with others shooting in close proximity while not burning up your time to get the five shots away is a challenge, if conditions are windy, raining etc or your rifle/ammo has a malfunction than that 2mins ( CLAS ) or 2 1/2mins ( RMS) suddenly becomes very short, can be a bit daunting for new shooters.
Gamerancher's comment about sight picture is very useful for silhouette, with rimfire follow through is the key, the high velocity rimfire ammo causes too much muzzle flip so you lose your sight picture to reference where your spotter tells you the shot went.
I like your attitude not being concerned with medals or placing, I stopped looking at the scoreboard years ago and only compete against myself at least trying to equal or better my last score, I look at the scores at the end of an event and it is what it is, far better to just enjoy the shooting although silhouette can be bloody frustrating but addictive and the sport has given me some very good friends :drinks: :drinks:


Nope, no offence at all, just genuine interest :-)
I wasn't aware of the spotters. I hate spotters in practical shooting sports, like IPSC. Knowing what your bullet is doing should be a critical part of the sport, not left for somebody else to tell you the target is down so you can engage the next one.
My interest in any shooting competition is to simply improve my skills for the real world. Competition adds novelty value that makes practice and learning more interesting and enjoyable.
Most of my practicing is done at paper cut outs of the steels so I can monitor where my misses are going, although I can't see them until I walk up to the butt afterwards.

I'm trying to get the Norinco going using bungy cord while I'm waiting for a new mainspring guide rod :-)
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jan 2018, 7:43 pm

Well, I "fixed" the Norinco so that's back in action finally :-)
No stoppages either. Maybe it runs better without the mainspring :-)
Only shot 75rds tonight as it was getting too dark to see the targets, and it's raining.
10/15 on the chicken
9/15 on the pig
5/15 on the turkey (it really was quite dark at this stage though)
3/10 on the ram (very dark and wet now)
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 15 Jan 2018, 11:02 pm

Today's effort.
Fifteen rounds on each target facing both directions except for the ram. I put 50rds on the ram to finish.
Pretty happy with how I'm going.
I need to concentrate more on aiming at the centre of mass which I think will be easier when I have a rear sight I can adjust for a dead-on hold at each range, although I think a six-o'clock hold might have value.
The sights are still putting me a little to the right but I'm still focused more on the size of my group rather than its placement over the target. Once I tighten the groups up significantly then I can start working on group placement.
The ram still confuses me. The head is a lot of real estate to ignore, and it's higher making knock down easier. But the body is so much bigger and more symmetrical. If I can get my 100m group down to 100mm then I can probably aim at the head, until then I think I'll have to focus on the oval of the body and ignore the head completely.
For the turkey I need to ignore the head as well. Including it in the "mass" draws my group up into a bunch of misses instead of keeping them clustered in the body.

Chicken 50%
Pig 70%
Turkey 30%
Ram 40%

All this talk of ammunition limits led me to set myself a challenge to shoot at least 100rds every day, and so far I'm staying on track. I had xrays today as my ribs are not improving at all, and got some strong pain relief so hopefully I'll sleep much better tonight.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 19 Jan 2018, 12:08 pm

I filed the Norinco's front sight from a 0.070" rectangle to a 0.040" taper. I also tapered it forward on the top and sides so any light hitting those faces couldn't affect my picture. Results were decent with 50% on the chicken and pig, 40% on the turkey. But I only managed 20% hits on the ram as it was too dark to make out the white target against the tan board.

I've got a 7/32"-40tpi die coming so I can make some apertures next week. And the FP336 peep arrived yesterday for the Marlin. I made the mistake of mounting it immediately, forgetting I'd just loaded test rounds with six different bullets. The scope would be preferable for load development.
I shot all jacketed bullets first to avoid them being affected by lead in the bore. I loaded them all on 8gn of Trailboss to keep them just subsonic - I wasn't wearing ears.
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The 265gn FTX didnt shoot well last time and I didn't expect it to do any better this time, so I used those to put the sight on paper at 25m. From a seated position the first went wide of the target to the left, so I adjusted the sight then put the next four into a 120mm group...at 25m. These are also too long to cycle through the tube even with 20% compression of the powder.
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Next the Nolser 240gn JHP put five into a 50mm group at 50m resting across a front bag on a chair - very nice.
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The 180gn XTP put five into a group 75mm wide but 200mm high - they might be worth testing again. These had a crack to them so I think they went supersonic.
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240gn Berry's HP Copper Plated went into a 120mm group.
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240gn Berry's Keith-style hard-cast went into a group 130mm high but only 50mm wide - worth more testing.
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232gn CBE cast RN (3 parts 7-1/2 shot to 1 part 60/40 solder) sized to .432", checked, and painted with Alox went into about a 130mm group. I fired one round at the wrong target.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 19 Jan 2018, 12:20 pm

I started getting some light strikes in the Norinco and had to tighten up the rubber band mainspring :-)

I also had a major stoppage in the Marlin. The first round did not fully exit the tube. The bullet stayed in the tube, the case on the lifter and the action fully open and jammed solid. It took me fifteen minutes with a multitool and block of wood to eventually punch the round loose. This was the first of the cast RN's and I fired it at the wrong target in disgust :-)
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 23 Jan 2018, 4:38 pm

Still holding around 30% hits on chicken, turkey and ram, and about 75% on the pigs.
I put some tape over the peep sight on the Norinco and pricked a tiny hole in it. Pretty rough hole and hazy to look through - I think due to the adhesive - but I think it's an improvement over the standard Williams 2.36mm (0.093") aperture. I'll make an aluminium insert with a 0.5mm hole first and work up from that in 0.1mm increments.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 24 Jan 2018, 6:43 pm

Turns out the current Norinco parts dealer is Luke Easton, here in Traralgon, and he had the bits I needed on the shelf.
Still shooting the Norinco with the taped-over peep sight as I haven't found my sub-mm drill bits. Poking the hole with a scribe clears it for a few shots but it quickly gets hazy like looking through cobwebs. Been shooting every day this year so far. I'm still not making any significant improvement, but I am enjoying myself :-) My groups are stabilising I think, but I'm still not putting them on the right part of each silhouette. I really need an adjustable peep sight. I might try putting an aiming mark on the board that will drop my rounds on the targets and see if that helps. It also occurred to me that I could drill a set of apertures with the holes offset to suit the specific ranges. Then I'd just have to swap in the required aperture rather than adjust sights.

Also got some Federal Auto Match and tried it off the bench in the Ruger for accuracy.
Not great, though not terrible either - after ten rounds to foul the bore I got 88mm for 10rds at 100m. But I then shot a control group of 10rds of CCI SV alongside it and got 52mm including a flier (nine rounds in 39mm).
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 01 Feb 2018, 8:47 pm

Laying in the paddock for more than hour yesterday has set my bloody ribs whining again :-)
But I mashed together a primitive 40-thou aperture on the drill press and tried it out tonight.
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Being aluminium in the white it reflected sunlight quite badly, particularly by the time I moved up to the 75m line for the turkeys - I had to hold the rifle with my left hand cupped over the sight to cut the glare. By the time I got to the Ram I gave up :-)
But I think it's very much better than the 93-thou aperture.
I've painted it with a black marker now but I think it'd be good to make a sunshade for it just to keep the light consistent.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 06 Feb 2018, 11:49 pm

I've ordered another Williams peep sight with target knobs, a new front ramp, and a Lyman globe-style front sight with inserts for the Norinco - will be a couple weeks away though. By the time that arrives I'm hoping my ribs will be healed enough to get stuck into some more .44 Magnum silhouette practice. The replaceable insert front sight is similar to my very first air rifle when I was a youngster, and if I like it on the Norinco I might have to get one for the Marlin.

I installed the new hammer spring guide rod (bloody nightmare job that is) and the new secondary ejector last week, no more bungy cord around the hammer! I've got well over 3000rds through it now and I'm still getting an occasional "false" trigger break where I take the shot but the trigger doesn't move. I think I'm going to have to pull the hammer and trigger out and stone them again to improve the break and remove the double-action feel (where I feel the trigger lifting the hammer before it drops off the sear). I think the correct way to install the hammer spring is to remove the butt stock from the action, poke the guide rod and spring through the base plate (into the stock), and drop a pin through the end of the rod to keep the spring compressed. Then install the hammer, remove the pin, and reinstall the stock. Annoying but I'm sure it'll be a lot quicker and easier than trying to compress the spring using the hammer on the guide rod while trying to juggle it into the action and put the pivot pin through.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 14 Feb 2018, 8:18 pm

Still practicing relentlessly, passed 5000rds for the year so far.
The Williams sights for the Norinco are in Customs still.
I made another aperture of 0.5mm which worked pretty well, but was very hard to see through. I ran a 0.6mm (0.023") drill bit through it which is better. It still seems to become "cobwebby" after a few minutes though and I'm starting to wonder if it's actually the aluminium oxidising. Poking it clear helps but only for a few minutes each time.
Picked up another trigger, hammer and complete magazine tube today.
Cut the tube down to five-rounds.
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Going to work on the spare hammer and trigger to try to improve the break and feel.
And I rim-batched some CCI Std Vel ammo, but it was incredibly windy here today so I haven't tested it yet.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 20 Apr 2018, 10:33 pm

Having spent weeks getting the Uberti 66 set up to give me acceptable accuracy, and having finally got it shooting consistently into about 75mm at 50m, I've learned that the sights are not acceptable for CLAS - bugger :-)

Rule 4.1.1 allows replacement rear sights, but only if that sight is specifically manufactured for that model rifle. I haven't seen any sights specifically manufactured for the Uberti 66, and it seems that "manufacturing" the sight myself using a generic-fitment Williams peep is not acceptable. Unfortunately, the original sights are not suitable for competition, so the Uberti is out.

But, I'm also using a generic-fitment Williams sight on the Norinco, and I doubt any manufacturer makes a sight specifically for the JW21. It looks like that is out also. Mark has confirmed for me tonight, that although I could shoot Pistol Caliber with the .22LR if I wish to, it has little hope of knocking down the targets which are heavier than the rimfire targets.

I guess I'll be practicing with a lot of .44 Magnum now :-)
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