Best club to join

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Best club to join

Post by huntingfishingand4x4 » 10 Jun 2019, 7:21 pm

I’m a junior a/b best club I should join ? VIC
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Re: Best club to join

Post by sungazer » 10 Jun 2019, 8:23 pm

What type of shooting do you want to do? Where do you live? How far and how often will a parent drive you how far?
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Re: Best club to join

Post by bladeracer » 11 Jun 2019, 4:08 am

huntingfishingand4x4 wrote:I’m a junior a/b best club I should join ? VIC


What area and what competitions are you interested in?
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Re: Best club to join

Post by huntingfishingand4x4 » 11 Jun 2019, 8:30 am

I’m from the northern suburbs of Melbourne and 17 just wanna join a club for more benefits and to have a genuine reason on my lisence when 18
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Re: Best club to join

Post by bladeracer » 11 Jun 2019, 8:44 am

huntingfishingand4x4 wrote:I’m from the northern suburbs of Melbourne and 17 just wanna join a club for more benefits and to have a genuine reason on my lisence when 18


I'd suggest visiting Little River SSAA then for a look.
In Victoria you don't need to join any clubs for genuine reason.
Go to GMA and request an Expression of Interest in Hunting Pest Animals on Crown Land, send a copy of that with your application. But I would suggest putting Hunting and Target on your licence.
http://www.gma.vic.gov.au/hunting/pest-animals

Some clubs include Public Liability Insurance with your membership so are worth having without using them for genuine reason - SSAA and Field & Game for example.
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Re: Best club to join

Post by MontyShooter » 16 Jun 2019, 7:42 pm

Yeh check out little River.
500m.
50bmg approved.
Load your mags up.
Shoot anything. Shotties, canons, etc.
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Re: Best club to join

Post by Sturmmann » 31 Jul 2019, 7:46 am

Outside of Eagle Park Range, are there any other ranges where you can shoot higher than a .22 in Victoria? Seems like everywhere I have found only allows .22.
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Re: Best club to join

Post by bladeracer » 31 Jul 2019, 7:28 pm

Sturmmann wrote:Outside of Eagle Park Range, are there any other ranges where you can shoot higher than a .22 in Victoria? Seems like everywhere I have found only allows .22.


What do you mean by "shoot" higher than a .22? I think there are plenty of clubs that do centrefire competition, although most seem to be relegated to being open only one or two days per month. Are you wanting to join a club to shoot regularly or just want somewhere you can shoot informally now and then?
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Re: Best club to join

Post by Sarco » 31 Jul 2019, 10:53 pm

Sturmmann wrote:Outside of Eagle Park Range, are there any other ranges where you can shoot higher than a .22 in Victoria? Seems like everywhere I have found only allows .22.



Cite troll here, First post,

"where can I shoot any where else"

If you don't know, you probably have not done a firearms safety course.
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Re: Best club to join

Post by dhv » 01 Aug 2019, 8:10 am

huntingfishingand4x4 wrote:I’m from the northern suburbs of Melbourne and 17 just wanna join a club for more benefits and to have a genuine reason on my lisence when 18


OK, straight up attitude adjustment required. You sound like a complete user. It's all about you.

Clubs are mostly run by volunteers and wont survive unless members bring a contributory attitude with them from day 1. Start thinking about what you can do to help as well as what you want your membership to do for you.

Next, are you a hunter or a shooter? If you want to hunt (as your name suggests) join a hunting club. If you just want to shoot targets, join a range based club. Better yet, join both and add to their numbers.
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Re: Best club to join

Post by bladeracer » 01 Aug 2019, 8:37 am

dhv wrote:OK, straight up attitude adjustment required. You sound like a complete user. It's all about you.

Clubs are mostly run by volunteers and wont survive unless members bring a contributory attitude with them from day 1. Start thinking about what you can do to help as well as what you want your membership to do for you.


Not everybody joins a club because they want to help run a club, some people prefer to live their lives and merely attend clubs for the club activities, and there is _nothing_ wrong with that.

Clubs should certainly be able to cater to taking money from the blow-ins to add to the club's coffers without looking down on them. People are happy to pay whatever fees are set by a club in order to use their facilities, without immediately joining the committee or showing up for all the working bees. If a club does not want people to enjoy their facilities without signing up for the long-haul, put up signs stressing your club attitude so shooters looking for somewhere they can shoot don't waste their time on you.
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Re: Best club to join

Post by dhv » 01 Aug 2019, 11:29 am

bladeracer wrote:
dhv wrote:OK, straight up attitude adjustment required. You sound like a complete user. It's all about you.

Clubs are mostly run by volunteers and wont survive unless members bring a contributory attitude with them from day 1. Start thinking about what you can do to help as well as what you want your membership to do for you.


Not everybody joins a club because they want to help run a club, some people prefer to live their lives and merely attend clubs for the club activities, and there is _nothing_ wrong with that.

Clubs should certainly be able to cater to taking money from the blow-ins to add to the club's coffers without looking down on them. People are happy to pay whatever fees are set by a club in order to use their facilities, without immediately joining the committee or showing up for all the working bees. If a club does not want people to enjoy their facilities without signing up for the long-haul, put up signs stressing your club attitude so shooters looking for somewhere they can shoot don't waste their time on you.


In that case you are a customer, not a member. Pay your money and wait your turn until someone working for money delivers what you paid for.
Just don't join a volunteer association as a member, contribute nothing and then expect to be treated like a customer.
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Re: Best club to join

Post by bladeracer » 01 Aug 2019, 11:42 am

dhv wrote:In that case you are a customer, not a member. Pay your money and wait your turn until someone working for money delivers what you paid for.
Just don't join a volunteer association as a member, contribute nothing and then expect to be treated like a customer.


That's correct, customers, who bring money into the club. Customers don't contribute anything except their money, that's what customer means. They don't take anything from the club other than what you give them in exchange for their money. If your club does not want customers, make it clear and you won't have people wanting to bother you. Frankly I can't see any downside. You're there anyway, with your club members, shooting. Where's the loss to the club by having some customers paying money to shoot with you?
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Re: Best club to join

Post by dhv » 01 Aug 2019, 1:48 pm

bladeracer wrote:
dhv wrote:In that case you are a customer, not a member. Pay your money and wait your turn until someone working for money delivers what you paid for.
Just don't join a volunteer association as a member, contribute nothing and then expect to be treated like a customer.


That's correct, customers, who bring money into the club. Customers don't contribute anything except their money, that's what customer means. They don't take anything from the club other than what you give them in exchange for their money. If your club does not want customers, make it clear and you won't have people wanting to bother you. Frankly I can't see any downside. You're there anyway, with your club members, shooting. Where's the loss to the club by having some customers paying money to shoot with you?


Again you assume a range based scenario but anyway;
A bunch of 50 members all sharing the work load means fees can be kept low.
Add an additional 50 "customers" into the mix and you start looking to have to pay people to do the extra work that customers demand. Things like range maintenance and don't forget all the BS paperwork that firearm registries demand from clubs.
There is a limit to what volunteers will do and why should they work for free when only a small number of members are helping out (sound familiar?).
So instead of 50 members enjoying themselves for $100 a year we now have an additional 50 customers paying $100 year which isn't enough to cover the cost of the range plus the cost of staff, so everyone now pays $150 per year.
Look at it another way. If we placed a $$ value on those volunteer contributions, charged everyone $500 per year but refunded $10 per hour worked, that would be fair.
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Re: Best club to join

Post by bladeracer » 01 Aug 2019, 2:17 pm

dhv wrote:Again you assume a range based scenario but anyway;
A bunch of 50 members all sharing the work load means fees can be kept low.
Add an additional 50 "customers" into the mix and you start looking to have to pay people to do the extra work that customers demand. Things like range maintenance and don't forget all the BS paperwork that firearm registries demand from clubs.
There is a limit to what volunteers will do and why should they work for free when only a small number of members are helping out (sound familiar?).
So instead of 50 members enjoying themselves for $100 a year we now have an additional 50 customers paying $100 year which isn't enough to cover the cost of the range plus the cost of staff, so everyone now pays $150 per year.
Look at it another way. If we placed a $$ value on those volunteer contributions, charged everyone $500 per year but refunded $10 per hour worked, that would be fair.


Is there a non-range-based scenario possible for somebody looking for a club he can shoot at?
I understand how a club works, and your scenario is fine if you only want members that run the club, and have zero room for anybody else to make use of your facilities. Most of us would call that an "old boys" club, that has such a negative view of any shooter that is not already a member that they probably don't even publish their events, and make it virtually impossible for anybody to contact anybody about becoming a member anyway.

As for fees, it's up to the club to determine the fee structure required to be fair to both parties. You can't charge low fees and then whine about it being too low.
If club membership is $100 a year (which seems ridiculously low to me), and you have fifty members contributing $5000 to the club to cover the expenses incurred for them to use the club facilities for the year. If you charge blow-ins $50 a day to come along and shoot then I can't see a downside. If you get lots of customers wanting to use the facilities, there would seem to be plenty of money there to reimburse some volunteers for their effort in managing those shooters for the day if that's required - I can't see why it should be though except for absolutely new or unlicenced shooters. The volunteers that work with non-members are clearly contributing enormously to the club by bringing in those additional funds.

I could see a problem if the club had absolutely zero interest (as you seem to) in simply providing somewhere for fellow shooters to do some shooting.
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Re: Best club to join

Post by dhv » 01 Aug 2019, 2:30 pm

bladeracer wrote:
dhv wrote:Again you assume a range based scenario but anyway;
A bunch of 50 members all sharing the work load means fees can be kept low.
Add an additional 50 "customers" into the mix and you start looking to have to pay people to do the extra work that customers demand. Things like range maintenance and don't forget all the BS paperwork that firearm registries demand from clubs.
There is a limit to what volunteers will do and why should they work for free when only a small number of members are helping out (sound familiar?).
So instead of 50 members enjoying themselves for $100 a year we now have an additional 50 customers paying $100 year which isn't enough to cover the cost of the range plus the cost of staff, so everyone now pays $150 per year.
Look at it another way. If we placed a $$ value on those volunteer contributions, charged everyone $500 per year but refunded $10 per hour worked, that would be fair.


Is there a non-range-based scenario possible for somebody looking for a club he can shoot at?
I understand how a club works, and your scenario is fine if you only want members that run the club, and have zero room for anybody else to make use of your facilities. Most of us would call that an "old boys" club, that has such a negative view of any shooter that is not already a member that they probably don't even publish their events, and make it virtually impossible for anybody to contact anybody about becoming a member anyway.

As for fees, it's up to the club to determine the fee structure required to be fair to both parties. You can't charge low fees and then whine about it being too low.
If club membership is $100 a year (which seems ridiculously low to me), and you have fifty members contributing $5000 to the club to cover the expenses incurred for them to use the club facilities for the year. If you charge blow-ins $50 a day to come along and shoot then I can't see a downside. If you get lots of customers wanting to use the facilities, there would seem to be plenty of money there to reimburse some volunteers for their effort in managing those shooters for the day if that's required - I can't see why it should be though except for absolutely new or unlicenced shooters. The volunteers that work with non-members are clearly contributing enormously to the club by bringing in those additional funds.

I could see a problem if the club had absolutely zero interest (as you seem to) in simply providing somewhere for fellow shooters to do some shooting.


I was talking hypothetically, and yes I agree that if the going rate is too low then the club needs to look at that, but I know of more than one club where all the work is done by retired blokes who are also on the committee, and putting up the membership fees means that some of them can no longer afford to belong.

There is a reason there are very few purely commercial shooting facilities; people will not pay the true cost of running them. If volunteer clubs don't get the help they need they will not go commercial, they will simply close. You choose.

The point of my post was to make sure that the OP considered helping out if that is possible, as any help is appreciated.
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Re: Best club to join

Post by bladeracer » 01 Aug 2019, 2:40 pm

dhv wrote:I was talking hypothetically, and yes I agree that if the going rate is too low then the club needs to look at that, but I know of more than one club where all the work is done by retired blokes who are also on the committee, and putting up the membership fees means that some of them can no longer afford to belong.

There is a reason there are very few purely commercial shooting facilities; people will not pay the true cost of running them. If volunteer clubs don't get the help they need they will not go commercial, they will simply close. You choose.

The point of my post was to make sure that the OP considered helping out if that is possible, as any help is appreciated.


I would've thought the committee members were exempted from membership fees? If they're paying the same fees as non-committee members then it makes sense they'd feel put-upon running the club for others. If you have fifty members, and ten are on the committee or otherwise running the club, their fees should be spread over the fees paid by those members that are not involved in running the club, I can't imagine any successful club not operating this way. If the club needs $100 per member to cover the costs, then the 40 members not on the committee should be paying $125 each to support the committee members.

Yes, I agree, club members that do wish to be involved in the operating of the club are worth their weight in gold. But that is very different from simply slating anybody that is merely wanting to join a club, and pay the fees, so he has a place he can shoot.
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Re: Best club to join

Post by dhv » 01 Aug 2019, 2:46 pm

bladeracer wrote:
dhv wrote:I was talking hypothetically, and yes I agree that if the going rate is too low then the club needs to look at that, but I know of more than one club where all the work is done by retired blokes who are also on the committee, and putting up the membership fees means that some of them can no longer afford to belong.

There is a reason there are very few purely commercial shooting facilities; people will not pay the true cost of running them. If volunteer clubs don't get the help they need they will not go commercial, they will simply close. You choose.

The point of my post was to make sure that the OP considered helping out if that is possible, as any help is appreciated.


I would've thought the committee members were exempted from membership fees? If they're paying the same fees as non-committee members then it makes sense they'd feel put-upon running the club for others. If you have fifty members, and ten are on the committee or otherwise running the club, their fees should be spread over the fees paid by those members that are not involved in running the club, I can't imagine any successful club not operating this way. If the club needs $100 per member to cover the costs, then the 40 members not on the committee should be paying $125 each to support the committee members.

Yes, I agree, club members that do wish to be involved in the operating of the club are worth their weight in gold. But that is very different from simply slating anybody that is merely wanting to join a club, and pay the fees, so he has a place he can shoot.


I'm not aware of any club where the exec do not pay membership fees. I still pay mine.
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