SAKO A7 and range report

[Gamerancher]

To be honest, a lot of blokes severely limit the useful "point blank range" of their rifles by zeroing at too short a range.
A .308 Wichester, with the load you are using, would be better sighted for a 200yard zero.
Now before all of the squeals about that being "too far" for a hunting rifle, and "I never shoot anything past 150", let me explain.
A 200yd zero will have the bullet printing about 1' high @ 50, 2.3" high @ 100, 2" high @ 150, spot on @ 200, 3.7" low @ 250 and 9.4" low @ 300Yds.
So, any "game" between 0 and 250 yards, ( your effective PBR ), you just aim in the middle of the boiler room and it will be a kill shot, ( if you do your bit of coarse).
You also have the ability to take a reliable shot at game out to 300 because a back-line hold will still drop into the desired target area. NO HOLD-OVER.
That same rifle zeroed @ 100yards will print POA @ 50, POA @ 100, 1.5" LOW @ 150, 4.6" LOW @ 200, 9.6" LOW @ 250 and 16.6" LOW @ 300yards.
You effectively loose 50 yards of PBR and get into hold-over territory @ 250. Cheers,

[Oldbloke]

Yep, both my 30-06 & 223 are 1" high at 50.
Good to go out to about 250.
Interesting to note that most popular hunting centerfires (I know this is a general statement so don't be too critical ) set at 1" high at 50 will be good out to at least 200. (give or take 2")
Many have a similar trajectory assuming the projectiles are spire design.

[Member-Deleted]

I run my 22-250 at 1.5'' high @ 100yds and aim slightly above the middle of what i'm shooting at and i am getting around 350yds comfortably
My 25-06 i zero at 100yds because its got a etched reticle with ballistic markings so for me i don't need to zero 1'' high scope is good out to 800yds
but i'm still working my way up to 800yds, i run out of paddock at 450yds awhile back and haven't got back to it
Also something i've noticed is that when i had the plex reticle on both rifles they shot pretty much the same as far as drop goes with 1.5'' high @100yds
out to 350yds, this was a bit of an eye opener for me

Cheers

[Gamerancher]

My post was directed at the ballistics of the .308 Win load that SHV is working with.
Ballistics of other chamberings will of coarse vary, but the same basic principle applies, the shorter the range that you zero for, the shorter your maximum PBR.
With your ballistic reticle, you are basically sighting it higher at 100 by the change in cross-hair you use. This in turn is extending your PBR. An interesting exercise would be to put it on paper @ 100yds using each different marking. This will tell how much higher each increment actually is. A quick look at a ballistic calculator will then give you your zero range for each one.

[Member-Deleted]

OK mate will try that it's all good fun
It's all a little bit more to try and can be put it in the old noggin for a later date
I have set the ballistic reticle to a calculator but haven't actually put both rifles on paper side by side which could be interesting as you said
I'll try it and see how it goes

Thanks Cheers

[SHV]

To be honest, a lot of blokes severely limit the useful "point blank range" of their rifles by zeroing at too short a range.
A .308 Wichester, with the load you are using, would be better sighted for a 200yard zero.
Now before all of the squeals about that being "too far" for a hunting rifle, and "I never shoot anything past 150", let me explain.
A 200yd zero will have the bullet printing about 1' high @ 50, 2.3" high @ 100, 2" high @ 150, spot on @ 200, 3.7" low @ 250 and 9.4" low @ 300Yds.
So, any "game" between 0 and 250 yards, ( your effective PBR ), you just aim in the middle of the boiler room and it will be a kill shot, ( if you do your bit of coarse).
You also have the ability to take a reliable shot at game out to 300 because a back-line hold will still drop into the desired target area. NO HOLD-OVER.
That same rifle zeroed @ 100yards will print POA @ 50, POA @ 100, 1.5" LOW @ 150, 4.6" LOW @ 200, 9.6" LOW @ 250 and 16.6" LOW @ 300yards.
You effectively loose 50 yards of PBR and get into hold-over territory @ 250. Cheers,

good to know, thanks a lot, once have the chance will sigh in at 200 meters

[SHV]

looks like 42.4 is also good for TFB 150gr projectile

IMG_3625.JPG (395.28 KiB) Viewed 9979 times

[SHV]

TB 10.0 gr with TBF 150 gr projectile and federal premium large rifle primer

IMG_3626.JPG (339.96 KiB) Viewed 9332 times

[SHV]

TB 10.0 gr with TBF 150 gr projectile and CCI magnum large rifle primer x 4

IMG_3623.JPG (369.19 KiB) Viewed 9332 times

[SHV]

TB 10.0 gr with TBF 150 gr projectile and CCI magnum large rifle primer x 5

IMG_3624.JPG (384.42 KiB) Viewed 9331 times

[Gwion]

[SHV]

super light configuration A7 --- VXII 2-7X33 rifleman aluminium rings
can not afford carbonlight so put on light weight scope and rings instead

IMG_8740.JPG (336.69 KiB) Viewed 9113 times

[SHV]

always get 5 shot under 1 moa easily

IMG_9593.JPG (318.44 KiB) Viewed 9319 times

[JimTom]

Have an A7 myself and rate it highly Mate. It shoots like a champion.
Nice shooting by the way.

[Gaznazdiak]

Any of those results will be good enough to hunt with, pick one and go huntin, no need to waste more time and money for bugger all diff down the pointy end results wise.

I think you are missing the point that he quite enjoys the process.
Also, those groups are 50yd. Some of them would be 2" at 100yd.
Nothing wrong with being thorough, especially when you are new to it and learning basic processes for tuning a load.

Is the rifle not for hunting? if so stop wasting time and money and start using the thing on ferals, G'tee they will die with that sort of accuracy, after all he's not shooting groups on em, just one shot and they are down, my point is you don't need bench rest accuracy to shoot things with a 308, animals that are usually hunted with such cals are big as a rule and you won't be shooting off a bench controlling your breathing and reading the wind and shooting at measured distances, it's more take aim and shoot type deal most of the time, sometimes with a rest whether it be a bipod or tree etc.

People get all obsessed with groups and if they ain't tiny they think they can't hit anything, fact is you will hit most of the time if you know how to shoot (ie allow for holdover if needed or wind if needed) I still haven't tested loads in my 204 for some of the projectiles/loads I made for it and yet it's good enough to take heads of bunnies out around 260-270m or so. The Tikka 308 shoots around 1.5-2" groups with the factory ammo I'm running in it at the moment but so far everything I shot at it with has fallen over and dropped dead on the spot (using trees or bonnets for a rest).

If it were a varmint rifle I would say fine tune it as best you can but it ain't so no need to be pedantic about group sizes etc. Little targets small groups, big targets bigger groups are fine

That's a valid point Scott, for you and many, many others.
But for some people doing the absolute best you can with what you have, and doing it through your own trial and error experimentation is as much a part of the shooting as detonating rabbits, foxes and cats.

Speaking for myself, if I'm making something, I want it to be as close to perfect as I can get it, even if it will never be seen by anyone, just for the personal satisfaction of doing something well.

My car will get me from A to B and through all sorts of terrain as standard, but if I can tweak some extra power and tighter handling, why wouldn't I?
It's all part of the DIY attraction, I get far more satisfaction from using a tool I've made in my shed than I would from an expensive Snapon spanner.
Horse for courses, buddy.

[TassieTiger]

always get 5 shot under 1 moa easily

IMG_9593.JPG

Been following this for a while - emulates what some of the things I was doing with my 06...I was becoming obsessed for no other reason than...because lol.
Not being a smart arse asking this Q - would these results expand at 100m ?
1 Moa at 100m is - as I’ve now learned - pretty darn tight shooting (1.1inch o there abouts) and from when ever I’ve shot at 50m, the results have probably increased 25-35% to 100m...does that still mean Moa for this rifle? As 50m = Moa would be a 13mm grouping.

[bigfellascott]

Any of those results will be good enough to hunt with, pick one and go huntin, no need to waste more time and money for bugger all diff down the pointy end results wise.

I think you are missing the point that he quite enjoys the process.
Also, those groups are 50yd. Some of them would be 2" at 100yd.
Nothing wrong with being thorough, especially when you are new to it and learning basic processes for tuning a load.

Is the rifle not for hunting? if so stop wasting time and money and start using the thing on ferals, G'tee they will die with that sort of accuracy, after all he's not shooting groups on em, just one shot and they are down, my point is you don't need bench rest accuracy to shoot things with a 308, animals that are usually hunted with such cals are big as a rule and you won't be shooting off a bench controlling your breathing and reading the wind and shooting at measured distances, it's more take aim and shoot type deal most of the time, sometimes with a rest whether it be a bipod or tree etc.

People get all obsessed with groups and if they ain't tiny they think they can't hit anything, fact is you will hit most of the time if you know how to shoot (ie allow for holdover if needed or wind if needed) I still haven't tested loads in my 204 for some of the projectiles/loads I made for it and yet it's good enough to take heads of bunnies out around 260-270m or so. The Tikka 308 shoots around 1.5-2" groups with the factory ammo I'm running in it at the moment but so far everything I shot at it with has fallen over and dropped dead on the spot (using trees or bonnets for a rest).

If it were a varmint rifle I would say fine tune it as best you can but it ain't so no need to be pedantic about group sizes etc. Little targets small groups, big targets bigger groups are fine

That's a valid point Scott, for you and many, many others.
But for some people doing the absolute best you can with what you have, and doing it through your own trial and error experimentation is as much a part of the shooting as detonating rabbits, foxes and cats.

Speaking for myself, if I'm making something, I want it to be as close to perfect as I can get it, even if it will never be seen by anyone, just for the personal satisfaction of doing something well.

My car will get me from A to B and through all sorts of terrain as standard, but if I can tweak some extra power and tighter handling, why wouldn't I?
It's all part of the DIY attraction, I get far more satisfaction from using a tool I've made in my shed than I would from an expensive Snapon spanner.
Horse for courses, buddy.

I do get it Mick, plenty of OCD types out there when it comes to shooting groups but FFS 50M with a CF why bother? it's not a real good indicator of how it will really perform out in the "Real World" hunting situations where theres SFA time to take a shot often, no fancy benches or rests to shoot off, just you and your rifle of choice standing shooting off hand or with a bit of luck a tree or rock to get a steading shot off.

I do get it though, I went through the shooting tiny groups thing too many moons ago, I finally got away from visiting ranges and started visiting paddocks instead which really tought me how to shoot well.

Each to their own of course, but it would be nice to see how these things really shoot in real world conditions instead of an enclosed 50m indoor range.

[Gaznazdiak]

Yeah Scott, I was wondering about the choice of 50m, at 50m you could just about use a rock.
Perhaps SHV is city bound (what a hideous thought)

I'm really glad that the only ones allowed to shoot here are myself and the family who own the place,, as we've all grown up with guns.
I've often wondered about shooters who get the vast majority of their shooting practice at short range or in a constrained and regimented format like a range, I've seen what happens when some of these guys go bush.
Blood fever going, snapping shots from ridiculous ranges or angles or all firing at once like they're storming Omaha Beach.

Not for a second suggesting SHV is one of the above shower, but there are a few.

[bigfellascott]

Yeah Scott, I was wondering about the choice of 50m, at 50m you could just about use a rock.
Perhaps SHV is city bound (what a hideous thought)

I'm really glad that the only ones allowed to shoot here are myself and the family who own the place,, as we've all grown up with guns.
I've often wondered about shooters who get the vast majority of their shooting practice at short range or in a constrained and regimented format like a range, I've seen what happens when some of these guys go bush.
Blood fever going, snapping shots from ridiculous ranges or angles or all firing at once like they're storming Omaha Beach.

Not for a second suggesting SHV is one of the above shower, but there are a few.

Yeah pretty sure SHV visits the St Mary's Indoor shooting range, not sure if he gets out bush much. It would s**t me to tears just shooting at a range, I'd rather not own firearms if that's the only place I could shoot em (serious) I just couldn't be bothered and especially at 50m!

[TassieTiger]

Shows you how passionate he must be about shooting ?
If that all he has available - that’s all he has? Would drive me mad as well - because you really can’t see performance at that range but...some ppl buy performance car / bikes and never get out of a city...

[Gaznazdiak]

Yeah well, you can only operate as your circumstances dictate, or "run the one ya brung" as the street racers say.

[TassieTiger]

Would the more experienced shooters be able to comment on the groups being shown above ? Would it be reasonable to think that at double the distance, would the groups open up xx amount? Would the op still be meeting his MOA goal?

My very limited experience and a bit of guesswork - says probably not...?

[SCJ429]

If you double the distance you at least double the group size. If you can shoot .200 inch groups at 50, don't expect to shoot 2 inch groups at 500. Lots of things start to come into play, like the effects of wind. Still shooting at 50 is better than not shooting at all. I like to shoot my 22lr at 200 to practice wind reading. It is like shooting a centre fire at 500.

I find it hard to read your results at 50, the groups appear to have a lot of vertical for that short a range. Are you shooting off a bipod SHV?

[TassieTiger]

always get 5 shot under 1 moa easily

IMG_9593.JPG

Agree totally with SC. A fair amount of vertical for that distance...
Sorry to say to op, but if this group was shot at st mary’s Indoor range as per your other examples, the group would have to be 12mm and under to be 1 MOA.
Depending on what shots numbered where, you might have a 3 group Moa, but not 5...
Just means more practice / development and more reasons to shoot more - yay!

[bigrich]

i know i've come in late on this topic, i rate my A7 very highly great trigger ,top loading as well as removable mag , shot 1" at 100 with aussie outback 165 game kings . but, it did not like 150 sst's at all in handloading. i tried everything different powders , coal lengths the lot. jumped to a 165 gn speer boat tail sp an d with a bit of fiddling it shoots quite well . i would suggest to anyone with a 308 A7 try working up to this load. it's under the max listed by ADI but i take no responability this load works great in my rifle . norma brass, federal 210M primer , 45.5 gn of ar2208 , 165 gn speer sp bt . i seated out as far as the mag would allow but it's still a fair ways of the lands. the coal i used is 2.870" . hope this comes in handy for someone who's maybe having trouble reloading with 150's

yup the pics sideways, bloody Iphone

[bigfellascott]

Try taking the pic in the vertical not horizontal position.

Nice little group mate, she shoots well.

[bigrich]

Try taking the pic in the vertical not horizontal position.

Nice little group mate, she shoots well.

thanks scott . i played around restoring old v8 holdens and working on rods and stuff, so i like to tinker . that's half the fun for me, i don't get out for a hunt as much as i would like, so tricking out my rifles and working up loads is how i do my thing . needed a 'TOY' so i don't shoot out the barrels on my hunting rifles chasing loads, got myself a rossi '92 in 357 fun and challenging shooting it at 50 yards with open sights, and they only take around 16 gr of ar2205 per case to reload . happy daze

[bigfellascott]

Try taking the pic in the vertical not horizontal position.

Nice little group mate, she shoots well.

thanks scott . i played around restoring old v8 holdens and working on rods and stuff, so i like to tinker . that's half the fun for me, i don't get out for a hunt as much as i would like, so tricking out my rifles and working up loads is how i do my thing . needed a 'TOY' so i don't shoot out the barrels on my hunting rifles chasing loads, got myself a rossi '92 in 357 fun and challenging shooting it at 50 yards with open sights, and they only take around 16 gr of ar2205 per case to reload . happy daze

livin the dream BR - for me I like playing with chainsaws these days, cutting firewood keeps me happy and sane, I just like being in the bush, I like the solitude and the sights and sounds that are out there and the fact there are SFA people around to annoy me