Barrel accuracy odd occurrence

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Barrel accuracy odd occurrence

Post by bigrich » 16 Sep 2018, 12:33 pm

hey all, got a odd occurrence i want some opinions on. my old 222 Winchester shot some reloads this morning, the first 8-9 rounds were about a 1 1/2 " at 100, after that the same reloads were making one ragged hole groups at 100. this is a regular occurrence with this rifle. i can only conclude that the bore must be a bit sad and it needs a bit of copper fouling to tighten it back up. might just nylon brush the powder out and swab it without any bore solvent and see how it goes straight up next time . opinions anyone ? :unknown: :thumbsup:
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Re: barrel accuracy

Post by Stix » 16 Sep 2018, 1:40 pm

Im no expert mate, but my thoughts generally are that im not one who is keen to leave copper in a barrel for too long...
Copper eats steel.


But then i dont know what would wear out your barrel first...
8-9 wasted rounds every time you use it, or leaving copper in the barrel... :unknown:

I know heat usually makes groups wander & increase in size, but are you sure its not heat related...?
(Im not sure how you shoot it--whats your shooting regime...?...4 shot groups with total barrel cool in between, or you just bang away at random on a warm/hot barrel...?)

Maybe try some ordinary/different batch of brass charged with reduced loads of trailboss & the cheapest bullets you can get.

Fire 10 of them on a clean barrel then shoot your normal loads & see if the reduced loads have the same (fouling) effect on accuracy. :unknown:

If that works it shouldnt hurt your barrel & you can keep it clean. :thumbsup:
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Re: barrel accuracy

Post by duncan61 » 16 Sep 2018, 2:09 pm

Maybe you need warming up I know I do.In the right mood I used to group real good with .222 and 7mm Rem.At the farm the other morning I was cold and not in the mood and my group out the .222 was about 3 inches.Bet if I go there next week on a sunny day and all keen It will go back to .5 inch
.22 winchester .22hornet .222 .243 7mm rem mag cbc 12g
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Re: barrel accuracy

Post by bigrich » 16 Sep 2018, 2:21 pm

i generally shoot three shots in the space of three minutes, then put it down for a while and shoot 22lr before going back to it. it seems odd, maybe it is me , i might get onto a mate who has a borescope and have a look. i can generally pick up my other rifles and shoot respectable groups straight up, maybe the barrel is a bit so-so :unknown: :thumbsup:
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Re: barrel accuracy

Post by bigrich » 16 Sep 2018, 3:15 pm

another thought is bedding issues as suggested by stoney. maybe ? it was mildly windy. maybe that was the culprit as the wind had dropped when i shot better. how much difference does wind make to you guys on lighter calibers ? i know with my 6.5 it doesn't change much at all
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Re: barrel accuracy

Post by Stoney » 16 Sep 2018, 3:20 pm

Bedding or barrel harmonics comes to mind. Maybe the barrel is touching the stock initially then slightly moving upwards with heat. The barrel channel is hotter than the top of the barrel making it curl upwards. Expansion and Retraction. Therefore becoming fully floated. Just a theory :D
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Re: barrel accuracy

Post by bigrich » 16 Sep 2018, 4:56 pm

Stoney wrote:Bedding or barrel harmonics comes to mind. Maybe the barrel is touching the stock initially then slightly moving upwards with heat. The barrel channel is hotter than the top of the barrel making it curl upwards. Expansion and Retraction. Therefore becoming fully floated. Just a theory :D


theory proved correct. barrel not floating, just. barrel warming would make it full floating, bringing back accuracy. dunno why i didn't think of something so simple, duh ! thanks to professor stoney :drinks: now to find someone who can bed and float my old chinwester :thumbsup:
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Re: Barrel accuracy odd occurrence

Post by marksman » 16 Sep 2018, 8:10 pm

just sand out the barrel channel first, a round object wrapped in a bit of sand paper, maybe a socket or piece of dowel
it would not hurt to leave a little touching at the knox form

I would have said "copper equilibrium" there's one for you to google :lol:
quick version :wtf:
what happens is from a clean bore the barrel will take so many shots before the bore gets enough fouling to settle it down and shoot consistently
my main hunting rifle, my 30-06 is not fully cleaned unless I am going to store it or it starts to shoot off
when I get home I will oil it and patch that out put it away till next time
I don't do this with every rifle I own but I want this one to shoot to the same point on the first shot :drinks:
works for me :thumbsup:
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Re: Barrel accuracy odd occurrence

Post by Stoney » 16 Sep 2018, 8:47 pm

marksman wrote:just sand out the barrel channel first, a round object wrapped in a bit of sand paper, maybe a socket or piece of dowel
it would not hurt to leave a little touching at the knox form

I would have said "copper equilibrium" there's one for you to google :lol:
quick version :wtf:
what happens is from a clean bore the barrel will take so many shots before the bore gets enough fouling to settle it down and shoot consistently
my main hunting rifle, my 30-06 is not fully cleaned unless I am going to store it or it starts to shoot off
when I get home I will oil it and patch that out put it away till next time
I don't do this with every rifle I own but I want this one to shoot to the same point on the first shot :drinks:
works for me :thumbsup:



Funnily enough marksman I also did mention " copper equilibrium " to bigrich. I have been reading up on it.
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Re: Barrel accuracy odd occurrence

Post by bigrich » 16 Sep 2018, 8:47 pm

marksman wrote:just sand out the barrel channel first, a round object wrapped in a bit of sand paper, maybe a socket or piece of dowel
it would not hurt to leave a little touching at the knox form

I would have said "copper equilibrium" there's one for you to google :lol:
quick version :wtf:
what happens is from a clean bore the barrel will take so many shots before the bore gets enough fouling to settle it down and shoot consistently
my main hunting rifle, my 30-06 is not fully cleaned unless I am going to store it or it starts to shoot off
when I get home I will oil it and patch that out put it away till next time
I don't do this with every rifle I own but I want this one to shoot to the same point on the first shot :drinks:
works for me :thumbsup:


yeh stoneys talked to me about copper-watchama-call-it. i'm a bit OCD, happier with a cleaned barrel. stix pointed out copper and steel don't mix too well over time. i'm thinking i wont do half measures, i'll get it bedded and floated by someone who knows what their doing. it will need a reasonable amount removed from the barrel chanel. i could attack it with a air barrel grinder i suppose :unknown:
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Re: Barrel accuracy odd occurrence

Post by Stix » 16 Sep 2018, 10:57 pm

If you sand out your barrel channel make sure you use something that is a smaller diameter than the barrel.
I find your average concrete pin fits sporter barrels nicely. :thumbsup:

I also mentioned the heat... :thumbsup:

And as for the copper--maybe listen to marksman more than me with his "copper equilibrium" bizo...

I had (have) an old (some 40 plus years) remington in 22-250 that never ever ever had the copper cleaned out of it.

It took me bludy months of scrubbing & soaking a couple of times a week to clean out the copper, then i also got a brush in the throat to get some compacted carbon out too...!!

I was so proud of myself :D ...you shouldv seen how shiny the bore was...!! :clap:

I was so excited & couldnt wait to shoot my baby again with her new makeover--then i shot it... :(

i rooted it mate- :thumbsdown: -it was a .6"-.7" shooter & i turned it into a "minute of shed" outfit...-it was never the same & doesnt shoot anymore. :(

Every now & then i see it in the back of the safe & think it'll be better now...
I load up a few & take it to the range & it cracks a .7" group & get all steamy eyed & think to myself "ah my baby's back, i love you & miss you so much"... :P :D :P

I then i load some more & take her next time & it throws a tantrum & just chucks poo everywhere... :thumbsdown: :problem:

Anyway, what were we saying...ah yes...copper equilibrium. ..!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
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Re: Barrel accuracy odd occurrence

Post by bigrich » 17 Sep 2018, 4:42 am

Yeh well, if my 222 starts playing up like that after it floated, I’ll consider just using a nylon brush and patching it out like a 22lr and let the copper build up. But it has bin accurate straight up in the past so I’ll float and bed it and see how I go
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