SSAA Belmont banning lead shot

[Ziege]

Well, if someone has a magazine, floorplate or detachable it is irrelevant if he/she has rounds left in the magazine, see they make them with neat little clips you can press that either removed the magazine or opens the floor plate, and hey presto the firearm no longer has rounds in it, I know that's mind boggling but just imagine now if you will how simple that really is in determining the firearm as empty.

Aside from that, firing ranges are the most arbitrary and f***ed places on earth, so glad I don't have to attend any, my years in my teens of competition shooting are thankfully rose coloured memories that filter out all the politics, arbitrations, egos and idiocy that went along with having to cohabitate such places.

Let alone if I was there with my high powered only to be tapped on the shoulder by some buzzkill that wants me to turn the volume down... It's a firing range ffs.

Lastly it's a firearm, not a weapon, just like my chainsaw is a tool not a weapon, and my BMW is a car not a weapon, and my cricket bat is a sporting item not a weapon and my kitchen knives are utensil not weapons.

[bladeracer]

Yes, you're missing personal choice to enjoy our firearms the way we wish to.

Yeahh right - everyone's right to do what they like - I understand this libertarian mindset but it really has no place at a metropolitan range where a significant number of shooters are first time gun owners or unlicensed shooters supervised by one (but that's OK cos theyve just watched a 3min safety video. If you want to load a full mag then buy a rural property and do what you like. Reminds me of the guy that insisted on using a braked 300 winmag next to a young girl at the range shooting a 22 for the first time - his right to enjoy his gun his way. I dont want to share a range with this kind of person. I also dont want to shoot next to a guy who can't remember how many rounds are still left in his weapon.

I don't like arseholes either, doing my own thing doesn't make me one though.
The vast majority of us are respectful, helpful, responsible and competent. We should not all have to be treated like newbies.

[No1Mk3]

G'day allthegearandnoidea,
Glad you're up there in Qld, at our range we practice for comps that have 10 to 15 round rapid fire elements, and some hunters practice fast back up or multiple shots with bolt and pump action rifles. We also have people testing automatic weapons and semi-auto rifles, plus handgun shooters practicing rapid fire. Then there are those who enjoy plinking with 22 rimfire and have timed events with multiple disc shooting trees. You would hate our range by the sound of it.

[No1_49er]

Yes, you're missing personal choice to enjoy our firearms the way we wish to.

Yeahh right - everyone's right to do what they like - I understand this libertarian mindset but it really has no place at a metropolitan range where a significant number of shooters are first time gun owners or unlicensed shooters supervised by one (but that's OK cos theyve just watched a 3min safety video. If you want to load a full mag then buy a rural property and do what you like. Reminds me of the guy that insisted on using a braked 300 winmag next to a young girl at the range shooting a 22 for the first time - his right to enjoy his gun his way. I dont want to share a range with this kind of person. I also dont want to shoot next to a guy who can't remember how many rounds are still left in his weapon.

Perhaps your forum name is an indication of your own attitude?
This is NOT about "everyone's right to do what they like".
If the RO hasn't got balls enough to demand that any miscreant on his range leaves, forthwith, after clearly stating the reason/s for such demand, then he has no good authority to be an RO.
Why is it your claim that a "metropolitan" range should operate any differently to any other? Again, the RO's responsibility is to ensure that shooters, who are under his command and control, having advised them what the rules are, and penalty for transgression.
"Buy a rural property" because you want to load a full magazine? What kind of numpty are you? Or would it be your contention that the only firearms that can be used in competitive training/practice would be benchrest single shot. All those other hooligans who want to train/practice competitive multi-shot firing should go away and find there own range, dedicated only to those disciplines? Yeah, right.
As for the reference to "the guy who insisted on using a braked 300WM next to a young girl": That again would seem to be a failing of the RO. 'No sir, you can-NOT shoot that rifle there. You can either remove the brake, or remove yourself to another position that is no closer than 10mtr to any other shooter. Or wait until that distance can be achieved'.
The RO, at all times, is in essence the "owner" of the facility, and his authority is sacrosanct. Follow the rules, or you are free to leave.

My own "vested interest"?
I am an RO, who performs those duties as and when range needs arise.
I am a competitive rifle and pistol shooter who indulges in benchrest, field rifle, lever action silhouette, and standard pistol events. Maybe you will recognise that some of those disciplines necessitate the loading of a magazine with multiple cartridges?
And "my" very well patronised range is in Queensland. None of those BS rules here!

[Rwd22]

While being polite and respectful should apply to all walks of life, at the end of the day, we go to a range to set off multiple explosions, some not so loud and some extremely loud. If old mate wants to crank out rounds on his braked 300wm, then props to him, he paid to get in there and do exactly that.

If the young girl was there first and he plonked himself next to her, that's a bit rough, but again, it's a rifle range. I've popped off the brake for the comfort of the guy next to me, only took me a minute, I still get to shoot and old mate doesn't get a face full of blast and have half his s**t go flying with everytime I let one fly.

I still don't agree with single loading, that's why I shoot at Ripley, where I can mag load to my hearts content.

[bigrich]

I’ve shot at Belmont and Ripley, Ripley has recently switched to allowing mag loading. but realistically most of my range shooting is for testing hand loads which doesn’t matter a rats to me if I load the mag up or single load. Some newbies don’t have a lot of common sense and I’m glad it’s single load except for comps . It’s about protecting the newbies from themselves as well as others

JMHO

[AussieCapitalist]

Every rifle at the range is a manual action. So what difference would it make having a 25 round rim fire mag or a 15 round mag for a centre fire when one still needs to MANUALLY cycle the action? How is single loading more safe then cycling an action? It takes like 2 seconds to quickly single load. It is annoying as all hell and serves no purpose but to belittle the patron.

[bigrich]

There’s a 308 sized hole in a 100 square steel post that holds up the roof next to a bench at a rifle range. Sometimes people get distracted and sh!t happens . Single loading reduces the risk, that’s all I’m saying. At Ripley you aren’t allowed to bring a rifle into the range in a gun bag . Because a few years ago someone brought a loaded rifle to the range in a bag and I believe it went off . This is why the single load rules exist, to mitigate risk related to novice shooters . Common sense isn’t that common anymore........

[No1Mk3]

G'day bigrich,
Can't possibly agree that single loading is inherently safer. Over the years i have used all sorts of firearms including drum and belt fed weapons. Currently I shoot monthly comps requiring multiple shot rapid fire, and this range is also used occasionally by people firing full auto. The only 3 serious incidents in the last 25 years have all involved single loading shooters, 1 muzzle loader and 2 bolt actions. the 2 bolt actions required medical intervention. safe handling is safe handling and neither single or multiple capacity is inherently more dangerous, Cheers.

[bladeracer]

Every rifle at the range is a manual action. So what difference would it make having a 25 round rim fire mag or a 15 round mag for a centre fire when one still needs to MANUALLY cycle the action? How is single loading more safe then cycling an action? It takes like 2 seconds to quickly single load. It is annoying as all hell and serves no purpose but to belittle the patron.

Single loading is not alway that simple, particularly with lever actions. Even single-loading my Rugers can be trying due to poor access for fat fingers.

[bigrich]

G'day bigrich,
Can't possibly agree that single loading is inherently safer. Over the years i have used all sorts of firearms including drum and belt fed weapons. Currently I shoot monthly comps requiring multiple shot rapid fire, and this range is also used occasionally by people firing full auto. The only 3 serious incidents in the last 25 years have all involved single loading shooters, 1 muzzle loader and 2 bolt actions. the 2 bolt actions required medical intervention. safe handling is safe handling and neither single or multiple capacity is inherently more dangerous, Cheers.

hey mate , i can see your point , and others , with regards to single versus mag loading . i shoot feild rifle centrefire myself which involves rapid fire and loaded mags . i do however, beleive that for new shooters,or groups where there may be novices, that single load leaves less opportunity for any brain farts with regards to accidents .i cant give you any technical reason for my veiws , i just feel that people would pay more attention single loading than some newbies i've seen punching rounds out one after another . i personaly saw a incident where a guy shooting his own reloads accidently fired a 308 round in a .270 tikka . twice . the second time the bolt blew out the back off the gun . apart from a bit of blood, only the guys pride was really hurt .lucky . he was single loading which has no bearing on his simple mistake , but this shows mistakes do unfortunately happen .

anyway , to the post topic of ssaa banning lead at shotty ranges , that would result in some old collectables not being used , and could have a flow on effect to cast boolits and muzzle loaders. it wouldn't supprise me if australia followed california's lead in banning lead projectiles eventually

[No1_49er]

There’s a 308 sized hole in a 100 square steel post that holds up the roof next to a bench at a rifle range. Sometimes people get distracted and sh!t happens . Single loading reduces the risk, that’s all I’m saying. At Ripley you aren’t allowed to bring a rifle into the range in a gun bag . Because a few years ago someone brought a loaded rifle to the range in a bag and I believe it went off . This is why the single load rules exist, to mitigate risk related to novice shooters . Common sense isn’t that common anymore........

You are absolutely right.
But, wait a moment. What sort of s**t are you talking that single loading is safer, and then stating that there is a hole in a 100mm sq post?
That, presumably, was a SINGLE shot.
And the rifle was brought to the range and "it went off". So, bringing it onto the range "un-bagged/cased" would have prevented that discharge?
What f-ing planet are you on?

[Stoney]

Considering how old the Belmont shooting complex is. I think the ADF shot there before WW1 from Camp Hill? There must be tons and tons of lead, nickle, and copper embedded in the ground. Too late to worry about lead contamination. I heard a rumour that, that is the exact reason that Belmont hasn't been closed for the ever growing non stop expansion of high density housing in Brisbane. Way to costly to remove the contaminates. Does anyone have an exact date that Belmont was established please?

[bigrich]

There’s a 308 sized hole in a 100 square steel post that holds up the roof next to a bench at a rifle range. Sometimes people get distracted and sh!t happens . Single loading reduces the risk, that’s all I’m saying. At Ripley you aren’t allowed to bring a rifle into the range in a gun bag . Because a few years ago someone brought a loaded rifle to the range in a bag and I believe it went off . This is why the single load rules exist, to mitigate risk related to novice shooters . Common sense isn’t that common anymore........

You are absolutely right.
But, wait a moment. What sort of s**t are you talking that single loading is safer, and then stating that there is a hole in a 100mm sq post?
That, presumably, was a SINGLE shot.
And the rifle was brought to the range and "it went off". So, bringing it onto the range "un-bagged/cased" would have prevented that discharge?
What f-ing planet are you on?

that example of the hole in the metal post was to illustrate how accidents can happen , it's not specifically related to single loading versus mag loading . single loading/mag loading , either way i'll abide by the rules of the range i'm at . i don't find single loading a imposition or a great problem for non competition recreational shooting at a range . i shoot handloads and take my time anyway

and i'm on the same f-ing planet your on . you misinterpreted my meaning with my post , my appologies if i wasn't clearer .

i thought this topic was about the banning of lead shotgun shot at belmont anyway , i've digressed on the single mag discussion , cause i have a opinion , but surely this post should lean back to topic soon

[bigrich]

Considering how old the Belmont shooting complex is. I think the ADF shot there before WW1 from Camp Hill? There must be tons and tons of lead, nickle, and copper embedded in the ground. Too late to worry about lead contamination. I heard a rumour that, that is the exact reason that Belmont hasn't been closed for the ever growing non stop expansion of high density housing in Brisbane. Way to costly to remove the contaminates. Does anyone have an exact date that Belmont was established please?

maybe you should approach management about getting out there on days the range is closed with a shovel and a sieve, lots of free lead

out at ripley after they redid the earth banks behind the target area and there was a bit of rain, i swear the ground had been covered with a layer of peebles. it was unreal how many old projectiles had been unearthed . cast boolits would have real appeal if ya had a easy supply of lead...

[Ziege]

Gotta say if someone was mag loading and shot a post cos they got "distracted" then that same mong is capable of causing mayhem whilst single loading also. You would have to have terminal alzhiemers disease to not know if your gun is or isn't loaded.

[bigrich]

Gotta say if someone was mag loading and shot a post cos they got "distracted" then that same mong is capable of causing mayhem whilst single loading also. You would have to have terminal alzhiemers disease to not know if your gun is or isn't loaded.

yeah , your right . i used it as example of accidents do happen , not overly related to single versus mag loading i guess . personaly i just feel single load is safer, imagined or otherwise

[Ziege]

Being deadly honest mate, the perception is entirely in your head. I guess some people are pessimistic and others aren't.

[bigrich]

Being deadly honest mate, the perception is entirely in your head. I guess some people are pessimistic and others aren't.

pessimistic, no, not really . cautious , yes !

[TassieTiger]

Considering how old the Belmont shooting complex is. I think the ADF shot there before WW1 from Camp Hill? There must be tons and tons of lead, nickle, and copper embedded in the ground. Too late to worry about lead contamination. I heard a rumour that, that is the exact reason that Belmont hasn't been closed for the ever growing non stop expansion of high density housing in Brisbane. Way to costly to remove the contaminates. Does anyone have an exact date that Belmont was established please?

maybe you should approach management about getting out there on days the range is closed with a shovel and a sieve, lots of free lead

out at ripley after they redid the earth banks behind the target area and there was a bit of rain, i swear the ground had been covered with a layer of peebles. it was unreal how many old projectiles had been unearthed . cast boolits would have real appeal if ya had a easy supply of lead...

In Tassie - there was an old Brighton army camp (north suburbs of Hobart), vacant land went up for sale not long ago - 3 years ago or there abouts.
20 acres of the fastest growing property in Tassie, if not most of the country as recently reported...they Started asking $400,000 for the lot and couldn’t get it. It sold for $220k or there abouts - the reason? Soil / lead contamination...I’ve not seen so many excavators operating in one place for so long and it’s still got a “hangover” to locals...that being said - the cheapest 800sqm block is $175k...and it’s starting to sell very quickly....in particular to you mainlanders...I do wonder if they disclose the history or will 11 finger kids be the give away.

[AussieCapitalist]

Just an FYI the ADF did not exist before WW1. The integrated command known as he ADF came to be in the late 1970s.

[bigrich]

Just an FYI the ADF did not exist before WW1. The integrated command known as he ADF came to be in the late 1970s.

I think it was the “Australian imperial forces “from WW1 till well after WW2 . I seem to recall a rising sun badge from my grandfather had that on it

[Stoney]

Just an FYI the ADF did not exist before WW1. The integrated command known as he ADF came to be in the late 1970s.

Sorry mate, I was just being lazy when I said ADF. But you get what I mean.

[AussieCapitalist]

Yeah all good man I was not being rude. This place is a good place to share and gain knowledge. Same with the American Airforce. It did not exist until 1947. It was part of the army before that.

[AussieCapitalist]

I think it was the “Australian imperial forces “from WW1 till well after WW2 . I seem to recall a rising sun badge from my grandfather had that on it

Yeah the imperial force was the expeditionary force for both world wars. So if you went overseas you were mostly under that command.

[SCJ429]

Yeah all good man I was not being rude. This place is a good place to share and gain knowledge. Same with the American Airforce. It did not exist until 1947. It was part of the army before that.

You are correct that the United States Air Force, USAF, was formed in 1947. Previously known as the United States Army Air Force, USAAF, which was a virtually independent agency in WW2. You could say the "American Airforce" did exist in 1945 but it was known as the USAAF.