Hardening steel targets

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Re: Hardening steel targets

Post by bladeracer » 28 Aug 2021, 4:46 pm

cz515 wrote:As others have said. I don't have much to ad specifically. It's like releasing in a way

If you are looking at saving money and only doing a handful of plates tbh get the ar500 targets.

For an experience if what's possible then use the forge. What you are trying to do is case hardening. Making the steel red hot and dunking it in oil is actually trying to put a layer of carbon on the surface. I have also seen blacksmiths pour ash on the red hot tool and then hammer to make it hammer forged.

You could try cromoly steel that's cheap option and hard. Also excavator buckets, esp the blade is a great idea


No, case hardening is different from quench hardening. Case hardening can apparently (never tried it myself) be done with mild steel by laying case-hardening weld all over the surface, but the cost of hardening rods is far more expensive than buying AR500 plate.

It's not so much an exercise in experimentation, as the targets I want are either not generally available in Oz, or bloody expensive.
I only got the idea because I happen to be ordering a fair bit of steel soon and will have offcuts left over.
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Re: Hardening steel targets

Post by Wyliecoyote » 28 Aug 2021, 9:09 pm

Most steel merchants have programs to cut animal profiles scaled up or down to whatever size you want. Silhouette targets are cut from Hardox, 500 or 600 for chickens and pigs, softer 400 or 450 for turkeys and rams. Peppa in the pic below was drawn and cut freehand from Hardox 500 and has seen thousands of rounds from 22 to 416 cal. Don't weld on pivots as it leads to cracks, oxy cut or spot anneal to drill holes so the target can swing freely. Rotate the face regularly so it doesn't cave in and crack.
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Re: Hardening steel targets

Post by bah! » 30 Aug 2021, 8:52 am

targets ... contact the laser cutter outfits and ask them if they ever get round hardox offcuts. I get round offcuts from head units in mild steel and for upto .223 they're fine.
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Re: Hardening steel targets

Post by bladeracer » 30 Aug 2021, 4:58 pm

bah! wrote:targets ... contact the laser cutter outfits and ask them if they ever get round hardox offcuts. I get round offcuts from head units in mild steel and for upto .223 they're fine.


The thing is, round gongs are readily available, and reasonably priced.
Try finding Metallic Silhouettes.
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Re: Hardening steel targets

Post by bladeracer » 30 Aug 2021, 4:59 pm

Bit of an update after he received lots of questions about this video series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGM92m4pOUg
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Re: Hardening steel targets

Post by Apollo » 30 Aug 2021, 6:21 pm

Yeah...Well. A whole lot of flapping gums. Don't think I'll watch another. The guy is a nut case.

BTW... Laying beads of welds using special rods over steel is called Hard Facing, not Case Hardening. Used to help protect implements from abrasion wear. Case Hardening is using a product to infuse a thin high carbon compound on the surface of steel. Hard Facing can be long beads, square or otherwise to a surface.

Anyway, I'm out....
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Re: Hardening steel targets

Post by No1_49er » 30 Aug 2021, 11:22 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bah! wrote:targets ... contact the laser cutter outfits and ask them if they ever get round hardox offcuts. I get round offcuts from head units in mild steel and for upto .223 they're fine.


The thing is, round gongs are readily available, and reasonably priced.
Try finding Metallic Silhouettes.

If you want silhouettes, go here https://ststargets.weebly.com/
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Re: Hardening steel targets

Post by bladeracer » 30 Aug 2021, 11:55 pm

No1_49er wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
bah! wrote:targets ... contact the laser cutter outfits and ask them if they ever get round hardox offcuts. I get round offcuts from head units in mild steel and for upto .223 they're fine.


The thing is, round gongs are readily available, and reasonably priced.
Try finding Metallic Silhouettes.

If you want silhouettes, go here https://ststargets.weebly.com/


I check STS pretty regularly, I suspect they only make them to order.
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Re: Hardening steel targets

Post by deye243 » 31 Aug 2021, 1:22 am

Apollo wrote:Yeah...Well. A whole lot of flapping gums. Don't think I'll watch another. The guy is a nut case.

BTW... Laying beads of welds using special rods over steel is called Hard Facing, not Case Hardening. Used to help protect implements from abrasion wear. Case Hardening is using a product to infuse a thin high carbon compound on the surface of steel. Hard Facing can be long beads, square or otherwise to a surface.

Anyway, I'm out....


Yep I have done a few FEL buckets ...... low hydrogen rods are a pita unless you have a decent unit to run them .
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Re: Hardening steel targets

Post by No1_49er » 31 Aug 2021, 8:06 am

bladeracer wrote:
No1_49er wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
bah! wrote:targets ... contact the laser cutter outfits and ask them if they ever get round hardox offcuts. I get round offcuts from head units in mild steel and for upto .223 they're fine.


The thing is, round gongs are readily available, and reasonably priced.
Try finding Metallic Silhouettes.

If you want silhouettes, go here https://ststargets.weebly.com/


I check STS pretty regularly, I suspect they only make them to order.

Did you ask?
Nothing wrong with making them to order. Means he doesn't have stock on the shelf, unsold. And probably means that he can maximise the shapes that can be cut from a sheet, dependent on what the client orders. A win for everybody.
I purchased my own sets, some time ago, and I don't recall that there was much of a delay - maybe a week.
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Re: Hardening steel targets

Post by bladeracer » 31 Aug 2021, 1:12 pm

No1_49er wrote:Did you ask?
Nothing wrong with making them to order. Means he doesn't have stock on the shelf, unsold. And probably means that he can maximise the shapes that can be cut from a sheet, dependent on what the client orders. A win for everybody.
I purchased my own sets, some time ago, and I don't recall that there was much of a delay - maybe a week.


I asked in 2018, they didn't do them at all then.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=9562#p155641
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Re: Hardening steel targets

Post by No1_49er » 31 Aug 2021, 8:20 pm

bladeracer wrote:
No1_49er wrote:Did you ask?
Nothing wrong with making them to order. Means he doesn't have stock on the shelf, unsold. And probably means that he can maximise the shapes that can be cut from a sheet, dependent on what the client orders. A win for everybody.
I purchased my own sets, some time ago, and I don't recall that there was much of a delay - maybe a week.


I asked in 2018, they didn't do them at all then.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=9562#p155641

That's odd. I can't remember when I bought mine but I've just checked the web-site here https://stsonline.com.au/store/index.ph ... duct_id=60 and they're listed at $385 for a set of 20 i.e. 5 of each animal.
As the site says, "Made to Order". Can't help you more than that.
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Re: Hardening steel targets

Post by bladeracer » 31 Aug 2021, 9:28 pm

No1_49er wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
No1_49er wrote:Did you ask?
Nothing wrong with making them to order. Means he doesn't have stock on the shelf, unsold. And probably means that he can maximise the shapes that can be cut from a sheet, dependent on what the client orders. A win for everybody.
I purchased my own sets, some time ago, and I don't recall that there was much of a delay - maybe a week.


I asked in 2018, they didn't do them at all then.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=9562#p155641

That's odd. I can't remember when I bought mine but I've just checked the web-site here https://stsonline.com.au/store/index.ph ... duct_id=60 and they're listed at $385 for a set of 20 i.e. 5 of each animal.
As the site says, "Made to Order". Can't help you more than that.


Those are one-fifth scale rimfire silhouettes, which I already have.
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Re: Hardening steel targets

Post by johnboy357 » 21 Oct 2021, 7:54 pm

If you know anyone in the earth moving business see if they can get you a worn out (to them) belly plate from a scraper..it will probably still be 10mm or so thick and they are hard as the hobs of hell
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Re: Hardening steel targets

Post by Noisydad » 21 Oct 2021, 9:32 pm

Plough discs - especially the thicker ones, make excellent 200m and further gongs. They’re typically a 1050 - 1075 medium carbon steel that are most likely already work hardened. I’ve had one that was dented but not penetrated by a .243 at 200m.
Soft lead from BP rifles just made a particularly pleasant and satisfying “CLANG”.
There are plenty of knives and other edged tools made from plough disc steel as it can be heat treated at home fairly easily.
Don’t weld chains on them to hang them up though. It’ll just break off. Better to blow holes through them with a hot spanner and used D shackles.
There's still a few of Wile. E Coyote's ideas that I haven't tried yet.
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Re: Hardening steel targets

Post by ZaineB » 21 Oct 2021, 9:33 pm

Find someone making hoppers for things like cement plants or grain receivals etc etc etc, rock crushers etc... get some Bisalloy off them and done.
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Re: Hardening steel targets

Post by Hardcast » 25 Jan 2022, 11:52 am

I had some 3/8 mild steel plate cut for Gongs to use at our BP Club. For 100 yds I doubled up.
We also shoot Smokeless cast at them. No dents to speak of.
At 200 yds it's just 3/8.
One member decided to shoot at it with his 308 and jacketed bullets. It left a good crater but didn't go right through.
Just sayin.
Most Gunshops have, or can get, Round metal Gongs which are apparently guarranteed. I meant to buy a set of three at the next Gun Show here in Adelaide, but we haven't had one for a couple of years.
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Re: Hardening steel targets

Post by bladeracer » 25 Jan 2022, 12:39 pm

Hardcast wrote:I had some 3/8 mild steel plate cut for Gongs to use at our BP Club. For 100 yds I doubled up.
We also shoot Smokeless cast at them. No dents to speak of.
At 200 yds it's just 3/8.
One member decided to shoot at it with his 308 and jacketed bullets. It left a good crater but didn't go right through.
Just sayin.
Most Gunshops have, or can get, Round metal Gongs which are apparently guaranteed. I meant to buy a set of three at the next Gun Show here in Adelaide, but we haven't had one for a couple of years.


Yes, cast lead bullets rarely do damage unless you're very close, or pushing them very hard. A 180gn soft lead bullet in the 8x57mm went clean through 8mm steel plate at 50m...at 2550fps. With PC, paper-patching and other tricks we can push cast bullets fast enough to damage mild steel targets.

I have quite a lot of AR500 targets already, at least 15 circular gongs, plus half-scale Silhouettes, and some others. This thread was about me hoping I could use offcuts of mild from a project to make more targets, which turned out to be too much effort :-)

If you have abundant scrap mild then you can certainly use it for high-velocity, you will just have to keep replacing it as it gets shot full of holes. But if it's free anyway it's a big step up from the cost of hardened steel. I haven't checked recently, but AR500 was three-times the price of mild plate. I priced mild steel last August, a 6mm 2400x1200 sheet (136kg) was $530, 3mm (70kg) was $265, 12mm (275kg) was almost $1100. Steel pricing is generally based on a per-kilo rate for standard profiles and sheets. Probably around $4/kg for mild, $12/kg for hardened. Even a 6mm sheet is a handful to work with due to the size and weight (the supplier may cut it up for you for a fee though). A $530 sheet of 6mm gives you 32 300mm-square targets (under $20 each), or 8 600mm-square targets (under $70 each). You'll need plenty of gas or cutting discs :-)

With the shortages of primers and powders I have cut back on centrefire shooting a fair bit and am concentrating on .22LR, so 4-5mm mild steel is fine, 3mm is fine at extended ranges with .22LR.

I just checked and the prices have gone up about 8% since August.
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Re: Hardening steel targets

Post by bladeracer » 25 Jan 2022, 4:24 pm

If it helps anybody, I sized the silhouettes to 10px per inch and placed them on a 2400x1200 (960x480px image size) sheet.

One pair (two of each animal so you can set one facing right and one left) at full-scale requires a three-quarter sheet - the offcut is about 750mm by 1200mm.
Silhouettes one pair full scale on 2400x1200mm sheet.png
Silhouettes one pair full scale on 2400x1200mm sheet.png (200.35 KiB) Viewed 3223 times

One pair at full-scale and one pair at half-scale requires almost a full sheet - you have an offcut about 750mm-square.
Silhouettes one pair full scale plus one pair half scale on 2400x1200mm sheet.png
Silhouettes one pair full scale plus one pair half scale on 2400x1200mm sheet.png (274.92 KiB) Viewed 3223 times


I'd expected the shapes would probably have been designed to neatly fit into standard sheets with minimal waste, but I can't work out the puzzle down to that level :-)
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