Massive adjustment, why?

[jennageit]

Hi Guys,

I have a question regarding sights and target shooting, so I hope I'm in the right spot.

A week ago I fired my first firearm in over 20 years, and had an absolute ball. It was a target rifle, and someone else set it up for me. he even loaded it for me when we discovered that my ice cold hands proved useless for taking the bullets out of the brick!

Anyway, I fired the first two shots, and realised that it was shooting to the right about half an inch, yet I'd lined the crosshairs up in the scope with dead centre on the target. I readjusted for the next shot and got closer to the centre of the target, but still not close enough.

I put 9 rounds through the target rifle, and after making fairly big adjustments to my aim, I ended up with two bullseyes. With the other 22, I hit the target paper but go nowhere near the actual targets.

Oh, I was shooting at 50 metres by the way.

My question is this: Were the sights out on the target rifle? Is that why such a large adjustment on my part was needed to get a bullseye? Or am I just crap at shooting.

My results were:

9 shots, 9 hits on the target circles.
1 of those only just hit the target circle.
6 of those hit the '8' line on the inner target cirlcle
2 (the last) hit the bullseye. One was dead centre, the other was about a millimetre off dead centre.

What's your verdict guys? was the sight out? or am I a crappy shot?

Jenna

PS. The reason I ask, I'm thinking of taking up target shooting as well. Talking to you all, reading through your posts, seeing the shooting you've been doing, I'm addicted as hell and I blame you all for it. In saying that, THANK YOU!

[Westy]

My Question is what was the wind doing firstly and were you using the same Ammo ????

[jennageit]

Ammunition - absolutely no idea. I know that it was tiny, and left a hole in the paper that looks like you've stuck a small pencil through. If this helps, the bullets were about the same size as what was loaded into the magazine for the 22 he let me fire. i got the make wrong on that one, it was a bruno, not a browning. the shell casings (when I was picking them up) all looked the same, and were pretty damn tiny.

The wind, not even a breath of wind. it was drizzling rain, and the range is really well sheltered.

[Baronvonrort]

If you were compensating to get the projectile to hit the bullseye it sounds like scope wasn't dialed in properly to me, when i was younger i would deliberately have it out a little bit like you did to see if the person shooting would recognise this,these days i am a little kinder.

You have adjustments for up and down along with left and right on the scope.
It sounds like it needed one or 2 clicks to the left with the scope, not sure how it was for up and down,left to right is easy to sort out just do it when there is no wind.

Up and down will depend on what range you are shooting at-
This ballistics calculator will do a better job of explaining this,data for 22lr ammo-
Velocitor/subsonic segmented hollow point
ballistic co efficient-0.124 velocitor/0.123 seg hollow pt
Velocity- 1425 fps velocitor/1050 fps seg hollow pt
weight- 40 gr for both
interval - 25 yards
zero range -50 yards
max range -1000 yards
http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resou ... calculator
When you press calculate after entering info take note of trajectory for up and down,if dialed in at 50 yards for CCI velocitor you will be 4.4 inches lower at 100 yards.

Since you are shooting on your property you should be able to measure distances where foxes are from where you will shoot which will take any guesswork out of range estimation.
Take note of how elevation changes between 1050 fps subsonic and 1425 fps velocitors with the hornady calculator as well.

The USA military had a study which put minimum energy for a well placed fatal shot with humans at 38 ft lb,take note of the energy with calculator as well.

[Shotfox]

Hi Jenna.

At this stage of your experience I would not try to read to much into your first shoot. 50 meters is a fair distance for 22 and really I thought you did ok as you hit the target and even a couple of bullseyes. Pretty good.

Learn your technique, get some coaching and learn how to shoot to eliminate any bad habits that may creep in. Learn about the scope - how it works, parralex error, eye relief etc. Trigger pull and follow through etc.

Holding the gun you will see there is much more to learn than punching holes in paper. Don't be to hard on yourself you did ok.

Learn the basics and the rest will follow. Keep it up you are doing just fine.

[SendIt]

I fired the first two shots, and realised that it was shooting to the right about half an inch, yet I'd lined the crosshairs up in the scope with dead centre on the target.

A scope requires zeroing when fitted to a rifle, you don't just mount the scope and then bullets hit the crosshair. At 100m it wouldn't be unusual for the point of impact to be a foot of where the crosshair is.

If it's too far to the right look at the windage dial on the scope and turn whichever way is for left. Same for if it's shooting too high or low, look a the elevation dial and adjust accordingly.

I readjusted for the next shot and got closer to the centre of the target, but still not close enough.

When you said you 'readjusted' do you mean you used to dials on the scope to zero it? Or you aimed to the left of the bullseye to compensate? Sounds like the later?

If the scopes not zeroed you should (IMO) shoot a 3 shot group to get an idea of where groups are landing and adjust accordingly. i.e. Aim a the bullseye for every shot even if the bullets are not hitting it. After your 3 shot group if the group is 2 inches right, adjust accordingly using the dials (which have units of measurement on them) Usually 1 click is 1/4 of an inch at 100m, so it would be 8 clicks left to get onto the bullseye. At 50 metres this is halved, so you'd need to do 16 clicks to move 2 inches left on the same scope. Once you've done this shoot another 3 shot group and see where you are, then you probably will need to do another click or two to finely zero it.

The reason I say shoot groups instead of single shots then adjusting, is that with the spread of bullet impacts people end up chasing the holes around the paper and shooter error or inaccurate ammo can make it seem like an adjustment was required when it wasn't. If you shoot a group you can move the whole group which is more accurate (IMO).

[jennageit]

Hi Sendit,

The target rifle was set up by the guy teaching me. He placed it in the holder (if that's what you call it), had a quick look through the scope and then got me sorted out.

I used the lever on the mounting of the holder to adjust where I was shooting. I didn't touch the scope at all, and only saw my instructor take the cover off each end of it, he didn't adjust it.

I was hoping to shoot for grouping, but he wanted me to try a shot at each target. I was pretty nervous, but after the first two shots, I started to relax.

At one stage, when I looked through the scope, it was lined up way too high, and when I told my instructor, he fiddled with a dial at the front of the 'holder' to lower it down, asking me if that was okay, etc. At one stage he lowered it too much, so I asked for it to come up about half an inch. After that, with me using the lever to adjust it, I ended up with some pretty good shots, and my last two being two bullseyes on two separate target circles.

I probably sound like a real mop, but I'm still only learning, so I'm hoping you guys can decifer what I'm talking about. Next time I go, which should be next Wednesday, I'll ask more questions as I will no doubt be less nervous about it all.

I'm also hoping that they will let me have a go with one of the club 22's shooting from the shoulder, rather than the bench. It absolutely killed my back sitting down to shoot, and if I keep doing it that way, it'll translate into more time stuck in bed. not my idea of fun, especially as i'm usually alone in here during the day!

Anyway mate, does that help explain a little better what went on?

Oh, another quick question. I've been told that I should learn to sight without a scope, as they can be sensitive and require constant readjustment out in the field if they are bumped or knocked. What's your take on that? Should I forego the scope for the time being and learn to shoot with the naked eye? or buy one with my rifle?

[Patrol66]

Hi Jenna, keep the questions coming.

I'll add my opinion and hope I don't muddy the water. Using club rifle or other people's rifles will always be a little bit difficult. The rifle scope may have been sighted in for 25 metres and / with different brand of ammo that you were using at the time. All the ammunition will be .22, but within the same caliber ( .22 ) there are numerous variations in weight, amount / type of powder, type and shape of the projectile ( bullet ) and cost / quality.

I'd be happy with half a inch from the 10 score btw. Consistency is what you should be looking for. As your instructor wanted one shot for each target, if you aimed for centre each time. And each time you were 1/2 inch to the right, that means you are shooting very well with what equipment you are using.

As for scope verses open sights. If you were a junior I would go for open sights. A good scope is fairly robust nowadays , I wouldn't worry about the scope loosing its aim. When I'm shooting at the range wether lying down or at a bench, I have to stand up quiet often to stretch my back.

The rifle holder is called a bench rest. They also come in various types / cost / quality. One piece unit that holds front and rear of the rifle and two separate pieces for front and rear. You can make your own rest too. Mine are store bought expensive bean bags . Hehe

Hope this helps
Cheers Brad

[jennageit]

Thanks Brad for the explanation.

The front of the rifle was secured, the stock was resting on a weird shaped bean bag, now that I think about it. The front of the rifle appeared to have a steel plate attached to it, which made it weigh a ton!

I was pretty pleased with my efforts, especially as it looked as though I was pretty consistent. I'd have loved to have a few more shots but it wasn't to be. My instructor wanted me to have a go with his 22, and because I was here at his invitation, I couldn't really say no, I wanted to keep going with what I was doing. I was having fun, which probably sounds weird lol, all I know is that I can't wait to go next week for another go.

My back was really complaining after a few minutes. It's tetchy at the best of times, and because I was going to be shooting, I hadn't taken my heavy duty painkillers, which tend to make me dopey, so I really paid the price. It was worth it though lol

[SendIt]

The target rifle was set up by the guy teaching me. He placed it in the holder (if that's what you call it), had a quick look through the scope and then got me sorted out. I used the lever on the mounting of the holder to adjust where I was shooting. I didn't touch the scope at all, and only saw my instructor take the cover off each end of it, he didn't adjust it.

That would have been ad adjustable shooting rest. Something like this, yes?

caldwell rock br 1,000

caldwell-rock-br-1000.jpg (11.21 KiB) Viewed 3583 times

At one stage, when I looked through the scope, it was lined up way too high, and when I told my instructor, he fiddled with a dial at the front of the 'holder' to lower it down, asking me if that was okay, etc. At one stage he lowered it too much, so I asked for it to come up about half an inch. After that, with me using the lever to adjust it, I ended up with some pretty good shots, and my last two being two bullseyes on two separate target circles.

So there you're just moving the rifle around which has nothing to do with the scope. If the scope wasn't zeroed then you'd still not be hitting where the crosshairs appear.

From what you've said it sounds pretty clear to me that the scope just wasn't zeroed, and was half an inch to the right. It's hard to tell when you're only doing a single shot at each target because you have nothing to compare to.

Next time shoot some 4 shot groups. Not single shots. Assuming I'm right about the scope just being off, you would have got a 4 shot group about half an inch right of the target. Then you'd adjust your scope a few clicks to the left and shoot a new group at the next target. You'd have found the group was closer to the bulleyes. Repeat that process until the crosshair and the group lines up.

I probably sound like a real mop, but I'm still only learning

It's all good.

I've been told that I should learn to sight without a scope, as they can be sensitive and require constant readjustment out in the field if they are bumped or knocked. What's your take on that? Should I forego the scope for the time being and learn to shoot with the naked eye? or buy one with my rifle?

Learning to shoot with open sights is fine, but the thing about the scopes being 'sensitive' is nonsense. Any of the hunters here will back me up, I'm sure most of them never touch there scopes once they're zeroed. Maybe a click here or there after a few hunts just to confirm, but for the most part you won't touch it as any decent scope will hold zero even with a few bumps.

Watch this Video - Bushnell Elite Tactical 6-24x50mm Rifle Scope Review Part 2. They drown it, freeze it, drop it on the grass and on concrete - scope down, with the weight of a rifle on top.

After the drowning, freezing and repeatedly dropping it on the grass from shoulder height the scope perfectly fine. Even after knocking it scope first onto the concrete and slightly damaging the turret the scope is only 1 MIL off (about 1" at 100m) and resets fine. They continue shooting with it after that no problems.

Don't ask me what your guy is doing that his scope requires "constant readjustment out in the field". As you can see from the above a decent scope is more than tough enough. If he's dropping his rifle onto the rocks every hour and buggering his scope who's fault is that...

Get a scope.

[Lorgar]

Any of the hunters here will back me up, I'm sure most of them never touch there scopes once they're zeroed. Maybe a click here or there after a few hunts just to confirm, but for the most part you won't touch it as any decent scope will hold zero even with a few bumps.

The last time I touched the scope on my 7mm-08 was at the range a few months ago. Since then I've been hunting 5-6 times and not touched it; It's still zeroed.

My target .22lr might get 1 or 2 clicks every hundred rounds for fine tuning depending on the weather. If I touch it at all.

[Prios]

I've been told that I should learn to sight without a scope, as they can be sensitive and require constant readjustment out in the field if they are bumped or knocked. What's your take on that?

They "can", if you buy some rubbish scope and knock it around what would you expect.

I have the basic Leupold VX-1 scopes which are less than $300 on both my 17HMR and 30-06 and I've never had a problem.

The rifles both get carried through the bush and roll around in the boot (in their bags) with whatever else is in there and I've never a problem.

[Grrzrr]

Don't ask me what your guy is doing that his scope requires "constant readjustment out in the field". As you can see from the above a decent scope is more than tough enough. If he's dropping his rifle onto the rocks every hour and buggering his scope who's fault is that...

Maybe the scope isn't his problem, maybe he needs some boots with more grip

[Norton]

I've been told that I should learn to sight without a scope, as they can be sensitive and require constant readjustment out in the field if they are bumped or knocked.

I probably check the sighting on my .416 once every 80 rounds.

And it's got some serious 'bump' when you shoot it...