The best 500m cartridge

[veep]

Hi guys,

I'm thinking about a target rifle dedicated for 500m shooting.

I know for long range (1,000m or 1,500m etc.) the heavy stuff like .30 cal is preferred but with that comes recoil.

Without the need to buck the wind over longer ranges with the heavier pills, could the lower recoil cartridge be superior?

At 500m specifically is the .223 a potential champion?

Open to other ideas so please tell me

[mausermate]

My opinion is that 500 meters is a long way and a bit far for a 22 caliber bullet. A lot of shooters use the 223 but I think its a better 300m round than a 500m round.
The 6.5 bullet has received a fair bit of praise as a target caliber recently. The heavier long tapered projectiles work very well. I have been dabbling with the 6.5x284 and it is a very accurate cartridge and has performed well at 500m. Additionally the 6.5x55 is a nice target round and suits the 500m. I'd look at those two and the 6.5 Creedmoor, all have less recoil than the 7.62 and very capable of match winning scores at 500.

[Westy]

My opinion is that 500 meters is a long way and a bit far for a 22 caliber bullet. A lot of shooters use the 223 but I think its a better 300m round than a 500m round.
The 6.5 bullet has received a fair bit of praise as a target caliber recently. The heavier long tapered projectiles work very well. I have been dabbling with the 6.5x284 and it is a very accurate cartridge and has performed well at 500m. Additionally the 6.5x55 is a nice target round and suits the 500m. I'd look at those two and the 6.5 Creedmoor, all have less recoil than the 7.62 and very capable of match winning scores at 500.

x 2

[Apollo]

Well, my opinion is based on watching the equipment being used for 500m Fly Shooting and what stands out in Light Gun (17lb max) and does often beat Heavy Gun Class is the 6mm & 6.5mm calibres.

I have only just returned from my first ever National Competition at 500m and it wasn't easy battling ill health and a bad reaction to new medications. The longest drive I have done in many years then camping out in the back of my truck in the cold weather.

I ranked #4 out of 36 competitors, many have years of competition practise. No need to say that nerves were also a major problem competing with some of these big names in benchrest shooting. I managed the overall smallest 5 shot group at 1.182" and also the best overall target score of 58.01 (maximum being 60.05). The rifle I shot was a 6.5x47 Lapua. There were many things I did wrong, like being too sick between details to clean the bore and my scores suffered towards the end of the day.

6.5-284 has been mentioned, much heavier recoil and very poor barrel life, target barrels are very expensive. The 6mmBR and 6x47 have always ranked very high with the leaders of this 500m range shooting.

[Westy]

6x47 isa awesome Calibre along with the 6mmBR also 30calbr is a nice thing also!!! 6mm BR is a true joy to shoot not unlike the 223 recoil is like 0%LOL

[Manimal]

C'mon you can take a little more recoil than the .223

Some rough recoil figures FYI (average pill weights for target shooting etc.)

Cartridge - Recoils
.223 - 4 lbs
6mmBR - 5.5 lbs
6.5x55 Swede - 11 lbs
.308 - 16 lbs

If you don't like shooting 30 cal fair enough.

The Swede is a significantly less. Anyone can shoot 6mmBR. They're both better suited too IMO.

[MCLE]

I use a 6mm Dasher and they are a joy to shoot.Good barrel life no recoil and extremely Accuriate on a good day out to 1000y.Case life is excellent 20+ reloads.When you are only shooting out to 500y bigger is not always better.

[FuzzyM]

Maybe a 270W or 7mm08?

[Korkt]

I know for long range (1,000m or 1,500m etc.) the heavy stuff like .30 cal is preferred but with that comes recoil.

There's some truth in the idea the best cartridge is the one you can shoot.

Too many guys decide they want to do 1,000 metre shooting, buy a 300 WM, and then start bowling rounds down range due to their flinching.

Doesn't matter what the cartridge and projectile can do if you can't support it.

[MCLE]

There are plenty of shooters shooting out to 1000y with 223s every weekend around Australia in F class. you don't need to throw bricks down range.Choose your right Projectile and the right Barrel length and twist.A 80 gr 223 will smash the super in Fclass at 500y on a good day and the super is about 3 inchs square at 500y If you have the right Barrel and twist.And at 300y I have been it the Butts marking for guys and seen a 223 shoot a 60 with 10 X ( x being the super ) and the super at 300y is about the size of a 20 cents.The Victorian Fclass team that shot in Tasmania this year had a cople of 223s in the team shot from 300y to 1000y ( 918 m).Its important to get the right Projectile / Barrel / and Twist rate.Have fun

[Timb0]

There are plenty of shooters shooting out to 1000y with 223s every weekend around Australia in F class. you don't need to throw bricks down range.Choose your right Projectile and the right Barrel length and twist.A 80 gr 223 will smash the super in Fclass at 500y on a good day and the super is about 3 inchs square at 500y If you have the right Barrel and twist.And at 300y I have been it the Butts marking for guys and seen a 223 shoot a 60 with 10 X ( x being the super ) and the super at 300y is about the size of a 20 cents.The Victorian Fclass team that shot in Tasmania this year had a cople of 223s in the team shot from 300y to 1000y ( 918 m).Its important to get the right Projectile / Barrel / and Twist rate.Have fun

I couldn't agree more! The .223 will be more than adequate for 500m and a .223 with a 80gr MK is very close in speed and trajectory to a 308 with 175gr MK @500yd.

If your looking for low (or no) recoil and cheap I wouldn't let people talk you out of going that way. I do find the lack of recoil a bit weird when shooting heavy .223 rifles, that's just me though.

The other 6mm and 6.5mm that people have mentioned are all good, most with better ballistics than the .308 anyway. 6mm-284, 6.5-284 are barrel burners, the 243 is not much better.

I would make sure you can get good quality brass for whatever you decided on. I'm setting up a .260rem at the moment and lapua brass for this is quiet a bit more expensive than .308 and that's when I can find it. 260rem is another good option besides what i just said. 7mm-08 is also very good but it does recoil compared to .223 although most people find it to be mild in a heavy rifle.

[Turtleburp]

Ill second what MCLE and Timb0 said

I know of 2 in our club alone .223 FClass shooters who are very competitive up to 1000.
I thought that they would be loading them hot but apparently not so.

That said another member shot his 6mm BR last week though and I was very impressed 'frickin laser'

[Apollo]

The Topic is titled "The best 500m Cartridge". Perhaps "veep" should qualify what type of 500m shooting is meant.

As best I know there is no 500m for F-Class rather that targets distances are measured in yards. At 500 yards if the F-Class "Super" is 3" then that is huge by contrast to the "10" Ring for 500m SSAA Fly (550 yards) is just 1 3/4" (45mm) and the F-Class restricted calibres of .308W & .223R just aren't good enough to be anywhere in the ball park of accuracy to compete against the custom calibres.

F-Class Open is another story.

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

In the States, the .300 Win Mag is fairly popular for over 300 meters, as is the .308. The .300 can just do 1000 meters easier than the .308.

It depends on what sort of recoil you're willing to handle.

Regards,

Josh

[MCLE]

As he asked is the 223 a potential champion yes it is in its category it would depend on the disaplin this is true.Fly shooting is way different to Fclass.Fly shooting you are usully shooting off a good bench with more flags and under a shelter.The target stayers visable to the shooter all the time and you can get your shots off a lot faster.Fclass you are usully laying on the ground or sitting at a portable bench less flags no roof and depending on the marker it can be a bit of time for the target to come up.But the 223 is verry competent at 300y out to 500y and beyond.Would l choose it over my Dasher no.But they don't shoot in the same category.The 223 has good barrel life capable of winning against 308s in Fstandard easy to load for cheap to run easy to shoot.You can get Lap cases easily.You can shoot it all day as there is almost no recoil and it won't brake the bank.True it's no 6.5x284 but you aren't replacing barrels after 1500 Rounds eather.Ther are heaps of better cals to shoot out to 500y but this doesn't mean that the 223 is bad.When someone can lay down at 500y in Fclass and rattle off a 60 with 6 or 8 and l have seen this lots with a 223 you are getting your money's worth.

[Bennybigbores]

.243 best all round calibre in the world, versatile can varmint, game and target more than adequately if your going to do more than target at 500m, and if that's the case I recommend the .243 and if only doing 500m target I recommend ...................243. Or 6.5x55. I've used my ruger .223 to take goats at 390m certain it would group at 500m with good hand loads but for the marginal recoil of stepping up your trajectory flattens greatly and pick up bullets with better b/coefficient . I'm a little favouring the .243 if u hasn't noticed.

[Warrigul]

.243 best all round calibre in the world, versatile can varmint, game and target more than adequately if your going to do more than target at 500m, and if that's the case I recommend the .243 and if only doing 500m target I recommend ...................243. Or 6.5x55. I've used my ruger .223 to take goats at 390m certain it would group at 500m with good hand loads but for the marginal recoil of stepping up your trajectory flattens greatly and pick up bullets with better b/coefficient . I'm a little favouring the .243 if u hasn't noticed.

Yep, I love the calibre so much that when I wanted a longer range culling rifle after I sold my 7/08 I went out and bought a heavy barrel Tikka in .243 even though I already had a T3 Lite in the same calibre(I nearly went for a modern 6.5 x 55). I reckon they are the big three for Australia .223, .243 and .308.

Whilst I am getting some fairly impressive results I still don't think the .243 matches up with the 6 BR, x 47 etc when you are looking at a purposed target round. When you look at recoil, case and barrel life etc the .243 isn't as suited.

I had no complaints about my last .223 before I sold it and at the moment I am more than happy punting a .308 out to 1000 especially as I am convinced that although they aren't as inherently accurate as some, it is a lot easier to load decent target loads for.

Just my humble opinions.

[Timb0]

I wonder if Veep is going to tell us what sort of target shooting they are going to be doing?
Assuming has made for interesting conversation though.

[Apollo]

Hence why I said what does "veep" call "The best 500m cartridge"...

We can argue all week/ month and we will not agree.

Why do you think target shooters use different calibres, why does one beat another and I don't care if it's Benchrest, F-Class or Full Bore... It boils down to the Nut Behind The Butt... the thing is you are suppesed to have fun doing it, even at competition level....you become a better shooter..

Even how much "Jenna" is enjoying .22LR.....

[Timb0]

Yes Apollo,

Your comment was basically what I was contemplating, wondering if Veep was going to get back about that.

That's quiet deep for a Sunday evening.

Who's Jenna?

[FuzzyM]

Current pupil in the ways of the shooting fraternity.

[Apollo]

"Jenna" well, read more topics....

If I say more, I'd be in deep s**t....She's blonde, hobby farmer, breeds sheep, breeds ducks, breeds border collies, breeds cars, motor mechanic, wife, you name it but doing well at shooting little holes with a .22lR and waiting for a firearms licence.... I won't mention the medical condition or I'll start with 10 times worse...

Jenna, just stick with it and don't mind me... I'm jealous....I'm just an old fart.

[Timb0]

.243 best all round calibre in the world, versatile can varmint, game and target more than adequately if your going to do more than target at 500m, and if that's the case I recommend the .243 and if only doing 500m target I recommend ...................243. Or 6.5x55. I've used my ruger .223 to take goats at 390m certain it would group at 500m with good hand loads but for the marginal recoil of stepping up your trajectory flattens greatly and pick up bullets with better b/coefficient . I'm a little favouring the .243 if u hasn't noticed.

I have been trying hard not to go there as Veep sounded keen on a .223 or something similar.
I think I'm on the verge of buying a third .243. The Sako 85 varmint ss/ laminate, I was looking at the other day at the gun store left me with separation anxiety.
Anyway this is a good .243 article:

www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html

[Apollo]

A Sako 85 is a nice rifle, I have two. A Sako is just in general a nice rifle I have three plus the junior Sako, a Tikka T3 in .243W of which has three barrels that get swaped around, two .243W and one 6.5x47 Lapua... Which would you guess is the most accurate...????

Well, .243W is a hunting/varmint calibre ....say no more.

It's not a 500m target calibre.

[Timb0]

That's is just me entertaining the digression of poor Veep's post. However Veep, that Sako does come in 3 different twist rates for .223!! With an optional set trigger!

I'm going to have to get off here with this Sako business and start a new post.

[Apollo]

In .223R the Sako only has two... 1:8 and 1:12 ... Please enlighten me if you know of another.... ????

The "Set Trigger" is standard with a "Varmint" optional with all others....!!!

Until, Baretta Australia stuffed the story trying to make the Sako Varmint cheaper by supplying them .... cheap....so many people got caught out. Then it cost way more than the price difference to get one with a "Set Trigger" cause it had to be sent back.....F%^k Baretta....they then won't even sell you the trigger which takes five seconds to replace.

[Timb0]

In .223R the Sako only has two... 1:8 and 1:12 ... Please enlighten me if you know of another.... ????

The "Set Trigger" is standard with a "Varmint" optional with all others....!!!

Until, Baretta Australia stuffed the story trying to make the Sako Varmint cheaper by supplying them .... cheap....so many people got caught out. Then it cost way more than the price difference to get one with a "Set Trigger" cause it had to be sent back.....F%^k Baretta....they then won't even sell you the trigger which takes five seconds to replace.

1:8, 1:10, 1:12 as listed on Sako's web site?
It was explained to me that it was optional, the salesman look 19 though.

[Apollo]

Sorry, please point me to the 1:10" Twist rate...

Apologise to the OP but I have never heard of a Sako 85 / Tikka T3 Barrel in .223 Calibre at 1:10" twist rate....

PS...ie EDIT... It's not listed on their Web Site.

[Timb0]

you should have a look at the varmint specs then on the PDF.

[Apollo]

I apologise.....!!!!!

It's a new one that has never been there before and I have the "PDF" from a few months ago.....

Getting one is a different story.

I'll ask Baretta.....

One of the raesons I like my 1:9" twist CZ 527 better than my Sako 85 1:12" and could not get a 1:8" in Australia when I purchased my Sako .223R..

Again, sorry.