How competitive is an off the shelf F-Class rifle

[Spooner]

Hi guys,

Like the title says, looking for some feedback on off the shelf F-Class rifles compared to custom jobs (Neither of which I really have any experience with).

Currently looking at either the Savage 12 F Class or F/TR. These guys...

Savage Model 12 F Class

savage-12-f-class.png (78.91 KiB) Viewed 9549 times

Savage Model 12 F/TR

savage-12-f-tr.png (75.04 KiB) Viewed 9549 times

They're about $2,000 which seems reasonable given the claims they make. How can they compare to a custom job though?

All else being equal, if the same skilled shooter used one of the above and his custom job, could the Savage really be competitive compared to the custom or would it always get edged out?

[Jack V]

That's impossible to say because a lot depends on the shooting and reloading skill of the owner . What you get with a custom blue printed gun is more precise gun smithing and more guarantees of accuracy . The Savage is a good gun but they will not guarantee a certain standard of accuracy below a certain accepted point .

Like if one shot consistent .5 groups and another shot 1.5 groups then the larger groups would not be considered a faulty gun .

The best way to proceed is buy what you can afford and then study precision reloading and then practise like hell.

[Chronos]

here's what i know. a mate bought an F/TR in .308. out of the box it was very accurate, his load development saw some groups in the 1/4moa range at 200y.

he then sold that rifle and later bought a BR in 6BR, that rifle was not as accurate as the one he previously owned following a similar load development regime

he has now sold that rifle also so who knows where development on that rifle may have led.

what you're paying for is the additional precision in the action, barrel and the stock and bedding. the rest is up to you and no rifle will be competative if your load development and shooting skill aren't up to the level of your competators

Chronos

[Turtleburp]

I've seen a rebarreled one of the FTR versions in .223 that really shoots.

Buy at $2K if it shoots it shoots. If not (and you know its the rifle not you) change barrel and 'tweak' by competent smith for $1K and you're still under the cost of a custom.

That said next F Class rifle will be a custom

[1290]

As far as I'm aware Savage are the only big manufacturer that does an F class, Rem do their 40x but I'm not au fait with these Rem offerings though I know there big$$.

Savage do have a good rep for producing accurate rifles... probalbly a lot to do with not only the barrel but also the fine headspacing with the barrel nut system which now that WINCHESTER have adopted, I think ALL the US rifle makers are too!! only took them what 45 odd years!!!

If you want to buy off the shelf then the Sav is the way to go, but you can go many other ways too, even with a Savage off the shelf target action, get yourself a top notch CUT-rifled barrel, theyre not that expensive...and go from there.

[Humir]

Savage do have a good rep for producing accurate rifles... probalbly a lot to do with not only the barrel but also the fine headspacing with the barrel nut system which now that WINCHESTER have adopted, I think ALL the US rifle makers are too!! only took them what 45 odd years!!!

Always thought there floating bolt head was a clever feature too.

Probably not quite as good as squaring the bases of your cartridges but would still give better contact with the cartridge face and save you a tonne of work.

[Korkt]

All else being equal, if the same skilled shooter used one of the above and his custom job, could the Savage really be competitive compared to the custom or would it always get edged out?

If you gave the right gunsmith carte blanche and a blank cheque you would get a more accurate custom rifle. As you'd expect and demand for the work and money invested in it.

That's all really just academic though. You've got to justify the expensive and/or work within budget constraints, like we all do. Not everyone competing will has a hand built custom $15,000 rifle. Very few in fact.

Plenty of guys are competing with old Omarks which can be picked up cheap. Others with off the shelf option action like a Tikka or 700 action and an after market stock and trigger job - a few mods but not what you'd call a "custom" job.

All that said you've got to build to a serious skill level to really benefit from the finer increases in accuracy.

Chronos mentions his mate shooting 1/4 MOA at 200y, nobody is shooting those kinds of groups on their first day I'll tell you that, now matter what rifle is in front of them.

[sneaker]

Chronos mentions his mate shooting 1/4 MOA at 200y, nobody is shooting those kinds of groups on their first day I'll tell you that, now matter what rifle is in front of them.

Or my 2nd, 10th, 100th.... Ok ever

[RDobber]

Others with off the shelf option action like a Tikka or 700 action and an after market stock and trigger job - a few mods but not what you'd call a "custom" job.

T3 Super Varmint barrel/action and a GRS or McMillan stock would do nicely I would think.

Cutting it fine but if you could get the comp stock on special and sell your factory one I think you'd be about bang on the $2k mark.

[Spooner]

Like if one shot consistent .5 groups and another shot 1.5 groups then the larger groups would not be considered a faulty gun .

That's a point.

Damn you'd be pissed getting the 1.5MOA one when your buddy who inspired you to buy one got the 0.5MOA one though

[Spooner]

here's what i know. a mate bought an F/TR in .308. out of the box it was very accurate, his load development saw some groups in the 1/4moa range at 200y.

If I could shoot like that every day of the week I'd be more than thrilled.

[Jack V]

That's a point.

Damn you'd be pissed getting the 1.5MOA one when your buddy who inspired you to buy one got the 0.5MOA one though

I have seen that exact thing happen with Rugers . It is very frustrating when one guy gets a tac holer and the other is only very average using the same ammo and shooter .

It can happen with all mass produced guns . We all get caught at some point in our life with a bad shooter and sometimes you can tune it up and sometimes not .

[Mich]

Like if one shot consistent .5 groups and another shot 1.5 groups then the larger groups would not be considered a faulty gun .

I don't believe Savage actually make any accuracy guarantee for their rifles.

I remember the advertisements for the Sako A7 launched here the whole campaign was about their 5 shot MOA guarantee.

MOA is the best I can remember seeing guaranteed by any gun maker. Not a huge confidence booster if talking about an F-Class rifle.

[Jack V]

I don't believe Savage actually make any accuracy guarantee for their rifles.

I remember the advertisements for the Sako A7 launched here the whole campaign was about their 5 shot MOA guarantee.

MOA is the best I can remember seeing guaranteed by any gun maker. Not a huge confidence booster if talking about an F-Class rifle.

Ah yes that is what I am saying.

[Supporter]

It would be a s**t position to be in.

Anyone looking at it objectively would have to agree that if you buy something presented as an "F-Class rifle" that shoots 1.5MOA something is wrong.

Being a bit more critical anything over 0.5MOA really, considering you get that out of a lot of sporter chassis 'hunting' rifles.

Strictly speaking, I guess the retailer and maker would be within there rights to tell you "tough luck".

You wouldn't be happy

[hughston]

Thinking of starting up f-class shooting but I can't lay on my guts and shoot because of my f-ed-up back. The guys were talking about shooting off a small bench, has any body have bench shooters at there clubs and what tables do they use, rules etc thanks

[bluerob]

Didn't someone win a Bisley shoot a few years ago using an Omark?

I'm using an Interarms Mark X (fitted with Black Mountain target barrel) with the GRS stock (bought the blank version and had a gunsmith do all the fitting) and I can't complain about the accuracy. Shoots just fine.

Total cost was $1200, excluding the Mark X.

[Wm.Traynor]

The F-Class stock would be the way to go. With the bottom of the butt being parallel to that of the fore end, the rifle would ride back in the rear bag more consistently. That would give more consistent elevation.

[Gwion]

Thinking of starting up f-class shooting but I can't lay on my guts and shoot because of my f-ed-up back. The guys were talking about shooting off a small bench, has any body have bench shooters at there clubs and what tables do they use, rules etc thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2xJlZATIOU

Also seen guys using a "gorilla" aluminium step/bench with a form ply top but can't find any pics of an example.

[Wm.Traynor]

Thinking of starting up f-class shooting but I can't lay on my guts and shoot because of my f-ed-up back. The guys were talking about shooting off a small bench, has any body have bench shooters at there clubs and what tables do they use, rules etc thanks

I cannot find any reference to shooting off a bench on the NRAA site but I have been informed that some QRA members shoot off portable benches.

[hughston]

cheers 'gwion' & wm.traynor, the fellas tell me if I have a doc certificate I can shoot in proper comps, but must be portable bench like use said. cheers