Where are my rounds going?

Target shooting and range information. Competitive shooting, ranges, competitions, clubs and events. Free shooting targets.

Re: Where are my rounds going?

Post by Chronos » 07 Nov 2016, 6:56 am

goldiexxxx wrote:Thank you for your replies.
Chronos, I intend to just use the rifle for a bit of fun at the range occasionally and I understand the benefits of using a "hold under" sight picture to better identify the POI on the target. I will take this into consideration also.

Supaduke, I looked at buying the oversized front sight also, but at the moment have ordered an original 6.4mm front sight online and will see how that goes first.
Since making my first post on this topic, I have managed to do some further research and discovered the equation used to correct open sights.

error at target X sight radius = change in front sight height
distance to target

The above calculation is all in inches including the distance to target, so use of an online length converter was handy to convert metres to inches and hundredths of inches back to millimetres. So I removed the front sight blade and measured it with calipers. I have a 5.2mm front blade and using the above equation, I need an additional 1.25mm on the front sight to correct the current error. When using 6.4mm and reversing the equation to work out the error, I get the rifle still shooting 8mm high / 100m. I can live with that, so I think the 6.4mm front sight will most likely work for me and my intended use for this rifle. still got the option of the oversized sight if I decide otherwise later.

What I don't understand is why the K98 even has 100 and 200m settings on the rear sight if its lowest zero is above these anyway. I know there are other versions of Mauser that their sights start at 300m. Having done over 20 odd years in the military, and with an understanding of how the need to remove error when under stress of battle is always a strong consideration in any military equipment design, I can not believe the IDF would knowingly leave this issue with their main battle rifle; especially since the rifles have already gone through a major refit from 8mm to 7.62 NATO anyway. When you combine the fact that the IDF has compulsory National Service, and therefore they don't get to select only the quickest thinkers from their society, it makes no sense that the rifle should be issued with a front sight that shoots so high at its battle sight position. I mean you don't win wars in just 6 days with a rifle that doesn't shoot straight!!
It makes me wonder whether once I get the rifle zeroed at 100m, whether the rear ramp sight will function correctly by incrementing the POI as designed. Maybe this will be the answer to why the rifle was issued as is, and they overcome this by a training technique??

I will be sure to post my findings from some range testing.

Cheers,


My understanding is that when Israel originally received their K98's they remained chambered in 7.92 Mauser for many years until AMMO ran out at which point they were converted to 7.62 NATO.

Part of the conversion was to replace the original ramp with a newly calibrated one but swapping a rear sight ramp developed to suit one particular load 50 years ago may not translate to the same POI today.

The Swedes sights lowest setting is 300m which means holding off at shorter ranges where as having sights with 100 and 200 marks is more convenient at the range or hunting. As you say for a poorly trained soldier one sight setting for everything from the muzzle to 300ish makes a lot of sense and not much has changed even with the optics on modern rifles like our F88

The other thing you'll find with the sights on your rifle is the shape of the front post and the rear notch isn't that great for shooting group shots anyway. Fast acquisition and performance in differing light conditions was the order of the day

Chronos
User avatar
Chronos
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2082
New South Wales

Re: Where are my rounds going?

Post by goldiexxxx » 07 Nov 2016, 7:52 pm

I thought that story about the belt buckle was just BS?
If true, then that explains why I was issued WW2 style woollen battle-dress in the late '80s....issued with buttoned braces, leaving no belt buckle for the enemy to aim at. Genious! It must have given the diggers a feeling of near invincibility!
Yeah, I will stop now.
goldiexxxx
Private
Private
 
Posts: 75
Queensland

Re: Where are my rounds going?

Post by fenderstrat » 08 Nov 2016, 1:37 pm

Just for the record, I ended up getting a a taller front blade from another Mauser, and now its spot on at 100, as long as i keep the rear sight setting at 200. I might file it down some day but for now I'm happy!
User avatar
fenderstrat
Private
Private
 
Posts: 96
Queensland

Re: Where are my rounds going?

Post by bigfellascott » 08 Nov 2016, 2:08 pm

Good to hear mate.
User avatar
bigfellascott
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 5289
-

Re: Where are my rounds going?

Post by Supaduke » 08 Nov 2016, 5:59 pm

For the record the lowest setting on the M38 swede and k31 Swiss is 100m
Supaduke
Warrant Officer C2
Warrant Officer C2
 
Posts: 1230
Victoria

Re: Where are my rounds going?

Post by goldiexxxx » 17 Nov 2016, 9:14 pm

Well that didnt work out according to the equation to correct the point of impact. The new front sight blade only lowered the point of impact from 9.5" high to now 4" high at 100m. But that is probably what I should be working towards anyway so as to maintain a hold-under sight picture.
goldiexxxx
Private
Private
 
Posts: 75
Queensland

Re: Where are my rounds going?

Post by goldiexxxx » 17 Apr 2017, 8:11 pm

Just to complete this thread, I have had some months now shooting with the open iron sights. I can shoot groups at 100m which are equally as tight as my Ruger .308 equipped with a 3-9x scope. And a 14" round steel plate at 200m returns a horrible sounding thud with every squeeze of the trigger. You just got to love a '98 Mauser!!
goldiexxxx
Private
Private
 
Posts: 75
Queensland

Re: Where are my rounds going?

Post by sungazer » 19 Apr 2017, 8:50 am

Dont forget that the first shot out of a freshly cleaned cold barrel is going to shoot low. Dont pay attention to your first two shots for the day. They will typically be half to one moa low
sungazer
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1525
Other

Re: Where are my rounds going?

Post by bladeracer » 19 Apr 2017, 3:25 pm

sungazer wrote:Dont forget that the first shot out of a freshly cleaned cold barrel is going to shoot low. Dont pay attention to your first two shots for the day. They will typically be half to one moa low


That's for accuracy testing, but for a hunting rifle remember to zero to the cold bore point of impact.

I've found that my Ruger American Rimfire will always drop the first shot of a group low if I dry fired the end of the previous mag. I haven't seen such a thing before but it's pretty consistent, if I've accidentally run dry I'll bet that next one will be low.
I haven't put enough through my brother's Annie 64 MSR yet, but so far it seems to like a sighting shot before every group, and then try to shoot the group in a consistent rhythm for best results.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Previous

Back to top
 
Return to Target shooting - Competitive shooting - Shooting ranges