SAKO A7 and range report

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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by SHV » 19 Jul 2017, 11:43 pm

BM8208 different load, no big difference, hope I can shoot 100 or 200 meter but the only place is St Mary's 50 meters....

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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by SHV » 19 Jul 2017, 11:44 pm

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two different projectile 5 shot each, 40.2 gr BM8208
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by SHV » 19 Jul 2017, 11:48 pm

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two different projectile 5 shot each, 42.6 gr BM8208, feels close but not the best, next time should I try 42.1---42.3---42.5---42.7---42.9 5x5 or 5x10?
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by Gwion » 20 Jul 2017, 7:11 am

Mate. At 50m, those loads in the top photo are showing quite a large variation. As you say, getting out to 100m would be ideal for further testing. Still, looks like you are on a winner with both of the 40.2 & 42.6 loads but i'd personally stick with the 40.2 as they look most consistent.
Good work. Get them out to 100m and shoot a bunch of groups to confirm.

What is your intended use for the loads? If you really want that extra velocity, i would actually give 42.2 a run as 42 & 42.4 both have a similar POI but 42.8 is high and ever so slightly to the right of the previous loads which may indicate why the 42.6 is displaying a little left to right stringing. It could just be you as the variable but it is hard to tell from 50m groups.

How far off the lands are you loading?
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by SHV » 20 Jul 2017, 10:48 am

Gwion wrote:Mate. At 50m, those loads in the top photo are showing quite a large variation. As you say, getting out to 100m would be ideal for further testing. Still, looks like you are on a winner with both of the 40.2 & 42.6 loads but i'd personally stick with the 40.2 as they look most consistent.
Good work. Get them out to 100m and shoot a bunch of groups to confirm.

What is your intended use for the loads? If you really want that extra velocity, i would actually give 42.2 a run as 42 & 42.4 both have a similar POI but 42.8 is high and ever so slightly to the right of the previous loads which may indicate why the 42.6 is displaying a little left to right stringing. It could just be you as the variable but it is hard to tell from 50m groups.

How far off the lands are you loading?


thanks, will try 42.2 and around, maybe 41.8---42.0---42.2---42.4?
40.2 is good, I got 7 40.2 from last year, the 7 shot group is consistent too but this is for hunting so still want to find the best higher load
How far off the lands are you loading?---sorry out of new shooter's knowledge range :oops: you mean how far to the bullet touch the rifling?

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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by Gwion » 21 Jul 2017, 9:28 am

SHV wrote:How far off the lands are you loading?---sorry out of new shooter's knowledge range :oops: you mean how far to the bullet touch the rifling?


Correct!
I start off my load development with the bullet (ogive) touching the lands (the raised part of the rifling). Once i have a good load i tweak it by testing in .005" increments back from the lands. I used to start loads at 20thou (.020") off the lands but was reading an article that pointed out "which way do you go from there?" By starting on the lands, there really is only one way to go... backwards (although if you were a serious target shooter you may try a "jam" with the ogive into the lands).

Being the scientific type, this may interest you (two articles, same topic):

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/201 ... warehouse/
http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by Gwion » 21 Jul 2017, 9:40 am

PS: I'd personally just load up about 15 @ 42.2 and test them because you know how the loads on either side shoot already. If this is a hunting round and it feeds from the mag well and is within the realms for the loads on either side after 3 test groups, i'd just call it good and load up 100 to go hunting with. The only reason i suggest even trying the 42.2 and not just going with the 42.4 is that it sits in the middle of two loads that look consistent. This should give you a window of consistency for slight discrepancies of powder load and temp variation. If you really want to, load up another 15 of 42.8 and test those again as it does look good but the load seems to start opening beyond that charge. Pick which ever of those two loads look best. Try to get to a 100yd range for these tests.

In short, stick a fork in it, you're done!
Good work!
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by in2anity » 21 Jul 2017, 4:46 pm

Nothing wrong with those groups mate - I think you're being hard on yourself. That'll put meat in the freezer any day. The only reason you'd need to pay attention to such groups is if you plan on doing competitive light-gun benchrest or F-class; is this something you plan on doing?

Also what's the bolt throw like on that? Is that the reason you went with high rings?
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by in2anity » 21 Jul 2017, 8:00 pm

sungazer wrote:The high rings will actually help with some of the torque, or twist of the rifle when fired. The higher point of momentum dampens the twist.


That's the first I've heard of that - is that a proven effect? What about comfort though? You want your eyeline to be as close to the comb as possible to optimize your weld.
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by in2anity » 21 Jul 2017, 10:10 pm

sungazer wrote:It is a proven effect. not sure where I could point you to off the top of my head though. A lot of competition shooters also shoot with very little check weld or none at all, so that is not really an issue. Think of a tight rope walker using a long pole for balance. It is the length of the pole that changes the point of momentum that helps steady him. It was shown very often in different ways on the TV show "The science of being stupid".


Huh :huh: with all due respect exactly what competition are you talking about here? I ain't no F-class supported shooter, but I grew up shooting fullbore and UIT target these days mainly metallic silhouette, and cheek weld is absolutely paramount in achieving consistent sight alignment.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by bigfellascott » 22 Jul 2017, 8:52 am

Any of those results will be good enough to hunt with, pick one and go huntin, no need to waste more time and money for bugger all diff down the pointy end results wise.
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by Gwion » 22 Jul 2017, 9:04 am

bigfellascott wrote:Any of those results will be good enough to hunt with, pick one and go huntin, no need to waste more time and money for bugger all diff down the pointy end results wise.


I think you are missing the point that he quite enjoys the process.
Also, those groups are 50yd. Some of them would be 2" at 100yd.
Nothing wrong with being thorough, especially when you are new to it and learning basic processes for tuning a load. :thumbsup:
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by bigfellascott » 22 Jul 2017, 1:00 pm

Gwion wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:Any of those results will be good enough to hunt with, pick one and go huntin, no need to waste more time and money for bugger all diff down the pointy end results wise.


I think you are missing the point that he quite enjoys the process.
Also, those groups are 50yd. Some of them would be 2" at 100yd.
Nothing wrong with being thorough, especially when you are new to it and learning basic processes for tuning a load. :thumbsup:


Is the rifle not for hunting? if so stop wasting time and money and start using the thing on ferals, G'tee they will die with that sort of accuracy, after all he's not shooting groups on em, just one shot and they are down, my point is you don't need bench rest accuracy to shoot things with a 308, animals that are usually hunted with such cals are big as a rule and you won't be shooting off a bench controlling your breathing and reading the wind and shooting at measured distances, it's more take aim and shoot type deal most of the time, sometimes with a rest whether it be a bipod or tree etc.

People get all obsessed with groups and if they ain't tiny they think they can't hit anything, fact is you will hit most of the time if you know how to shoot (ie allow for holdover if needed or wind if needed) I still haven't tested loads in my 204 for some of the projectiles/loads I made for it and yet it's good enough to take heads of bunnies out around 260-270m or so. The Tikka 308 shoots around 1.5-2" groups with the factory ammo I'm running in it at the moment but so far everything I shot at it with has fallen over and dropped dead on the spot (using trees or bonnets for a rest).

If it were a varmint rifle I would say fine tune it as best you can but it ain't so no need to be pedantic about group sizes etc. Little targets small groups, big targets bigger groups are fine :drinks:
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by duncan61 » 22 Jul 2017, 1:36 pm

I like reading about how other people have interpreted the available information and applied it to get their toys to work good.I have seen a lot dumber topics on this forum.I am fortunate in that The group I shoot with have all standardised our reloads and some of the newer guys are still keen to reload as the thrill has gone for me.
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by bigfellascott » 22 Jul 2017, 1:55 pm

duncan61 wrote:I like reading about how other people have interpreted the available information and applied it to get their toys to work good.I have seen a lot dumber topics on this forum.I am fortunate in that The group I shoot with have all standardised our reloads and some of the newer guys are still keen to reload as the thrill has gone for me.


Yep the obsession with group sizes is long gone for me now, only hunt these days so not so important in the grand scheme of things. :thumbsup:
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by duncan61 » 22 Jul 2017, 2:31 pm

I mainly culled Kangaroos and my longest shot would be 150M or less during the day.I would use the .243 with 80gr PSP.I have no memory of ever missing.It was up north and most of the roos have only ever seen the station vehicles going past its cold up north in May June and the flies calm down so I would start about 4.00 PM and get a few.At night under spotlight my longest shot would be less than 80M and I would use my .222 with 50 gr PSP no real need for pin point grouping
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by bigfellascott » 22 Jul 2017, 2:40 pm

duncan61 wrote:I mainly culled Kangaroos and my longest shot would be 150M or less during the day.I would use the .243 with 80gr PSP.I have no memory of ever missing.It was up north and most of the roos have only ever seen the station vehicles going past its cold up north in May June and the flies calm down so I would start about 4.00 PM and get a few.At night under spotlight my longest shot would be less than 80M and I would use my .222 with 50 gr PSP no real need for pin point grouping


Sounds about right to me, done plenty of that back in the day too, occasionally you'd get a 200m shot or there abouts but most were well under that as a rule and roos are easy to shoot as a rule (they can get a bit twitchy after a week of shooting em however) but you leave em alone for a while and they settle down as a rule.

It's that first shot that really counts when it comes to hunting etc, after that it's all over a lot of the time depending on what one is shooting. :thumbsup:
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by Member-Deleted » 22 Jul 2017, 3:14 pm

I to am a sako fan but 12 mths ago i bought a Rough tech range sako in 25-06 ,26'' fluted barrel
I could not get it to shoot less than 3'' at 100 yds ,found that i couldn't tighten the screws enough to stop the barrel from moving sideways
Was told to glass bed the barrel but couldn't get anyone up north to do it because of the material used in the stock
most likely the epoxy would come away from the stock so they wouldn't stand by their work

SO, i done it myself , drilled lots of small holes at all angles so that the epoxy would anchor itself to the stock
opened the stock to get thick enough epoxy where needed, poked epoxy in all the little holes,put in the epoxy and set the barrel
I now tighten the screws to set torque and bingo shooting 1/4''

After all the trouble i've had i've heard other people having similar problems and not getting backup support from sako
It leaves me to wonder if beretta have already dropped some of the quality control that sako had in place all them years

But note prices haven't come down when buying sako
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by in2anity » 22 Jul 2017, 3:32 pm

sungazer wrote:
in2anity wrote:
sungazer wrote:It is a proven effect. not sure where I could point you to off the top of my head though. A lot of competition shooters also shoot with very little check weld or none at all, so that is not really an issue. Think of a tight rope walker using a long pole for balance. It is the length of the pole that changes the point of momentum that helps steady him. It was shown very often in different ways on the TV show "The science of being stupid".


Huh :huh: with all due respect exactly what competition are you talking about here? I ain't no F-class supported shooter, but I grew up shooting fullbore and UIT target these days mainly metallic silhouette, and cheek weld is absolutely paramount in achieving consistent sight alignment.


A lot of Bench Rest guys (depending on class), a lot of F class whether shooting off a rest or bipod F/TR. Have a read over on the oz fclass forum some of the guys or should i say most of the guys over there are the very top F class shooters in Australia currently preparing to go to Canada for the world championships. A quote from over there

"To the point that free recoiling rifle setups can and are being used. There is no forearm grip being used, there is no cheek weld being used, even contact of the
butt with the shoulder is not used. The grip of the rifle by the trigger hand is not always used the trigger is being pulled by a pincer motion of two fingers."

"True. I've ended up shooting FTR totally "Free Recoil" with a specially designed low long stiff rifle using big bullets and a Very light trigger."


Fair enough - I must say that F-class and benchrest realm is a discipline I've had zero experience with. I guess I comes down to what OP's end goal is - but if it's tradiotional fullbore or hunting I still say lowest rings possible is ideal
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by bigfellascott » 22 Jul 2017, 5:34 pm

Yeah just buy what ever suits your line of sight through the scope, if you find yourself having to adjust your head to see through the scope each time you use it something isn't right, either the rings aren't the correct height or the scope isn't in the correct position in relation to where your head naturally goes when you mount the rifle - close your eyes and mount your rifle, open them and if you can't see through it without having to move your head to do so somethings out (more than likely your scope position in relation to where you naturally put your head each time you are ready to take a shot, just adjust it until it suits. :thumbsup:
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by Gwion » 22 Jul 2017, 11:46 pm

BFS. True. The loads he has chosen look good enough for a good single shot kill but maybe he is enjoying the process of load development and actually learning something; in which case it not a waste of either time or money.
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by bigfellascott » 23 Jul 2017, 7:03 am

Gwion wrote:BFS. True. The loads he has chosen look good enough for a good single shot kill but maybe he is enjoying the process of load development and actually learning something; in which case it not a waste of either time or money.


Maybe he is mate, I don't know - either way choose one and go huntin and don't worry about group sizes, as I said he isn't shooting groups on ferals, one well placed shot will see em fall over 99% of the time, so long as the rifle isn't spraying them all over the place (which it isn't) it will be fine for the intended purpose (hunting).

Buy all means keep blazing away at 50m (not sure why one would bother with such a short range with a centrefire) but I guess if that's all that's available it will have to do, me I'd rather test it in the bush at 100, 200 and 300m with single shots to see where they shoot at those distances to make sure I have a reasonable idea of what it's doing at the pointy end so to speak, which to me is the important bit, it's all good and well having a nice bench, rest, no wind, known distance etc but that's completely diff to the real world of hunting where it's 100% the opposite, no real stable rest, no real time to much around getting the breathing etc right, no known distance as a rule, wind and hills etc to contend with.

Each to their own of course but to me the rifle shoots fine so go use it on the ferals is the way I look at it. :drinks:
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by SHV » 26 Jul 2017, 9:31 pm

thank you guys for your replies, they are really helpful, just came back from St Mary's interesting resort, first 5 shot Hornady steel case match, not good but constantly separate about the same distance as aways

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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by SHV » 26 Jul 2017, 9:35 pm

second 5 shot, 41.8 gr 8208

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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by SHV » 26 Jul 2017, 9:42 pm

the 3rd 5 shot, 42.2gr I thought I found it

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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by SHV » 26 Jul 2017, 9:50 pm

the 4th 5 shot group is 42.2 gr again, but 3 shot very good, 2 fly, maybe it is me, maybe is the ammo, or maybe the barrel suddenly heated up?

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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by SHV » 26 Jul 2017, 10:18 pm

the 5th 5 shot, 42.8gr
almost the same as the last 42.2 5 shot, only difference is POI higher a little bit

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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by SHV » 26 Jul 2017, 10:26 pm

the last 5 shot group this evening, 43.0 gr
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by Gwion » 27 Jul 2017, 6:42 am

Personally, I'd stop testing so many different charges. You have already had some good results. Pick a good one and load 15 rounds. Confirm the load by shooting 5x 3 round groups, allowing the barrel to cool completely between groups (take your 22 to the range). Take special note of where the first round from the group impacts and sight the rifle to that bullet strike. Take the rifle hunting. Set up a target in the field at 100yd/m. Shoot one shot at the target, adjust your turrets so you are 1" above bull. Fire one shot to confirm and then go hunting.

Buy a heavy barrel rifle for range use or stick to the 22 if you are heading to a 50yd range.
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Re: SAKO A7 and range report

Post by bigfellascott » 27 Jul 2017, 9:09 am

You can play around with bullet seating depth too if you really want to fine tune the best group, but for hunting any of those results will see stuff fall over with one well placed shot.
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