SAKO A7 and range report

[in2anity]

It is a proven effect. not sure where I could point you to off the top of my head though. A lot of competition shooters also shoot with very little check weld or none at all, so that is not really an issue. Think of a tight rope walker using a long pole for balance. It is the length of the pole that changes the point of momentum that helps steady him. It was shown very often in different ways on the TV show "The science of being stupid".

Huh with all due respect exactly what competition are you talking about here? I ain't no F-class supported shooter, but I grew up shooting fullbore and UIT target these days mainly metallic silhouette, and cheek weld is absolutely paramount in achieving consistent sight alignment.

A lot of Bench Rest guys (depending on class), a lot of F class whether shooting off a rest or bipod F/TR. Have a read over on the oz fclass forum some of the guys or should i say most of the guys over there are the very top F class shooters in Australia currently preparing to go to Canada for the world championships. A quote from over there

"To the point that free recoiling rifle setups can and are being used. There is no forearm grip being used, there is no cheek weld being used, even contact of the
butt with the shoulder is not used. The grip of the rifle by the trigger hand is not always used the trigger is being pulled by a pincer motion of two fingers."

"True. I've ended up shooting FTR totally "Free Recoil" with a specially designed low long stiff rifle using big bullets and a Very light trigger."

Fair enough - I must say that F-class and benchrest realm is a discipline I've had zero experience with. I guess I comes down to what OP's end goal is - but if it's tradiotional fullbore or hunting I still say lowest rings possible is ideal

[bigfellascott]

Yeah just buy what ever suits your line of sight through the scope, if you find yourself having to adjust your head to see through the scope each time you use it something isn't right, either the rings aren't the correct height or the scope isn't in the correct position in relation to where your head naturally goes when you mount the rifle - close your eyes and mount your rifle, open them and if you can't see through it without having to move your head to do so somethings out (more than likely your scope position in relation to where you naturally put your head each time you are ready to take a shot, just adjust it until it suits.

[Gwion]

BFS. True. The loads he has chosen look good enough for a good single shot kill but maybe he is enjoying the process of load development and actually learning something; in which case it not a waste of either time or money.

[bigfellascott]

BFS. True. The loads he has chosen look good enough for a good single shot kill but maybe he is enjoying the process of load development and actually learning something; in which case it not a waste of either time or money.

Maybe he is mate, I don't know - either way choose one and go huntin and don't worry about group sizes, as I said he isn't shooting groups on ferals, one well placed shot will see em fall over 99% of the time, so long as the rifle isn't spraying them all over the place (which it isn't) it will be fine for the intended purpose (hunting).

Buy all means keep blazing away at 50m (not sure why one would bother with such a short range with a centrefire) but I guess if that's all that's available it will have to do, me I'd rather test it in the bush at 100, 200 and 300m with single shots to see where they shoot at those distances to make sure I have a reasonable idea of what it's doing at the pointy end so to speak, which to me is the important bit, it's all good and well having a nice bench, rest, no wind, known distance etc but that's completely diff to the real world of hunting where it's 100% the opposite, no real stable rest, no real time to much around getting the breathing etc right, no known distance as a rule, wind and hills etc to contend with.

Each to their own of course but to me the rifle shoots fine so go use it on the ferals is the way I look at it.

[SHV]

thank you guys for your replies, they are really helpful, just came back from St Mary's interesting resort, first 5 shot Hornady steel case match, not good but constantly separate about the same distance as aways

IMG_3284.JPG (372.06 KiB) Viewed 7385 times

[SHV]

second 5 shot, 41.8 gr 8208

IMG_3285.JPG (402 KiB) Viewed 7385 times

[SHV]

the 3rd 5 shot, 42.2gr I thought I found it

IMG_3286.JPG (371.64 KiB) Viewed 7385 times

[SHV]

the 4th 5 shot group is 42.2 gr again, but 3 shot very good, 2 fly, maybe it is me, maybe is the ammo, or maybe the barrel suddenly heated up?

IMG_3287.JPG (393.77 KiB) Viewed 7383 times

[SHV]

the 5th 5 shot, 42.8gr
almost the same as the last 42.2 5 shot, only difference is POI higher a little bit

IMG_3288.JPG (405.01 KiB) Viewed 7377 times

[SHV]

the last 5 shot group this evening, 43.0 gr

[Gwion]

Personally, I'd stop testing so many different charges. You have already had some good results. Pick a good one and load 15 rounds. Confirm the load by shooting 5x 3 round groups, allowing the barrel to cool completely between groups (take your 22 to the range). Take special note of where the first round from the group impacts and sight the rifle to that bullet strike. Take the rifle hunting. Set up a target in the field at 100yd/m. Shoot one shot at the target, adjust your turrets so you are 1" above bull. Fire one shot to confirm and then go hunting.

Buy a heavy barrel rifle for range use or stick to the 22 if you are heading to a 50yd range.

[bigfellascott]

You can play around with bullet seating depth too if you really want to fine tune the best group, but for hunting any of those results will see stuff fall over with one well placed shot.

[SHV]

Personally, I'd stop testing so many different charges. You have already had some good results. Pick a good one and load 15 rounds. Confirm the load by shooting 5x 3 round groups, allowing the barrel to cool completely between groups (take your 22 to the range). Take special note of where the first round from the group impacts and sight the rifle to that bullet strike. Take the rifle hunting. Set up a target in the field at 100yd/m. Shoot one shot at the target, adjust your turrets so you are 1" above bull. Fire one shot to confirm and then go hunting.

Buy a heavy barrel rifle for range use or stick to the 22 if you are heading to a 50yd range.

yes you are right, it is a hunting rifle, no need to get "boring accuracy"
once have chance to try 100 meter then try 42.2 and 43 to see which one's better, thanks

[SHV]

You can play around with bullet seating depth too if you really want to fine tune the best group, but for hunting any of those results will see stuff fall over with one well placed shot.

[Gwion]

All good, mate!

[in2anity]

But TBH SHV I'd be taking your 527 carbine on hunting trips over this rifle; 7.62x39 hunting loads hit like a 30/30, PLENTY heavy enough the vast majority of Aussie game, and you'll really appreciate its portability once you starting walking around with a rifle. That's a fantastic little rifle for so many reasons.

[SHV]

But TBH SHV I'd be taking your 527 carbine on hunting trips over this rifle; 7.62x39 hunting loads hit like a 30/30, PLENTY heavy enough the vast majority of Aussie game, and you'll really appreciate its portability once you starting walking around with a rifle. That's a fantastic little rifle for so many reasons.

long range 308, short distance walking in the bush 7.62x39, pig hunting Battue 30-06, plinking win94 30-30

[in2anity]

But TBH SHV I'd be taking your 527 carbine on hunting trips over this rifle; 7.62x39 hunting loads hit like a 30/30, PLENTY heavy enough the vast majority of Aussie game, and you'll really appreciate its portability once you starting walking around with a rifle. That's a fantastic little rifle for so many reasons.

long range 308, short distance walking in the bush 7.62x39, pig hunting Battue 30-06, plinking win94 30-30

sounds good in theory, but your 7.62x39 will tick all those boxes and then some. I doubt you'll be taking shots past 200m in the field; 7.62x39 is perfectly capable of precise 200m shots. pig hunting; hot 7.62x39 hollow points will easily break down a pig. plinking; you can shoot Trail Boss cast-lead loads through your 7.62x39.

In case you hadn't noticed I'm a big advocate of 100% familiarising yourself with the ergonomics and trajectory of a single load and rifle, and the only way to do that is to get some serious time behind the trigger on that specific load and rifle. Chopping and changing is novel, but it won't do you any favours when it comes to precisely honing your hunting and offhand capabilities.

I'm only referring to the practicalities of hunting here though; don't get me wrong I love owning and shooting all kinds of loads and guns at the range, and you have every right to own and play with as many loads and guns as you want. But if you wanna git guud (at hunting) I say KISS and practice on the one gun.

[in2anity]

And to support my claims, watch Hickok standing offhand your exact cz527 out to 230 yards with iron sights! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caCiANMCixo they shoot pretty flat so not really any argument for the 308w, long range F-class style demands a target rifle anyway, not a sporter barrel rifle .

[SHV]

tried 2 x 5 shot groups, cold barrel and hot barrel, 168gr zmax, 42.4gr 8208 50 meter indoor shooting range(St Mary's)

cold barrel 5 shoot got one fly(it could be my fault), otherwise not too bad

IMG_3436.JPG (511.76 KiB) Viewed 7801 times

[SHV]

hot barrel one is ok, for hunting should be good enough anyway...

IMG_3437.JPG (502.94 KiB) Viewed 7800 times

[Gwion]

Now you just need to sight in for max point blank range and off you go!
About 1" high at 100yd is common.

[SHV]

Now you just need to sight in for max point blank range and off you go!
About 1" high at 100yd is common.

thanks a lot for your help

[Gwion]

[Gamerancher]

To be honest, a lot of blokes severely limit the useful "point blank range" of their rifles by zeroing at too short a range.
A .308 Wichester, with the load you are using, would be better sighted for a 200yard zero.
Now before all of the squeals about that being "too far" for a hunting rifle, and "I never shoot anything past 150", let me explain.
A 200yd zero will have the bullet printing about 1' high @ 50, 2.3" high @ 100, 2" high @ 150, spot on @ 200, 3.7" low @ 250 and 9.4" low @ 300Yds.
So, any "game" between 0 and 250 yards, ( your effective PBR ), you just aim in the middle of the boiler room and it will be a kill shot, ( if you do your bit of coarse).
You also have the ability to take a reliable shot at game out to 300 because a back-line hold will still drop into the desired target area. NO HOLD-OVER.
That same rifle zeroed @ 100yards will print POA @ 50, POA @ 100, 1.5" LOW @ 150, 4.6" LOW @ 200, 9.6" LOW @ 250 and 16.6" LOW @ 300yards.
You effectively loose 50 yards of PBR and get into hold-over territory @ 250. Cheers,

[Oldbloke]

Yep, both my 30-06 & 223 are 1" high at 50.
Good to go out to about 250.
Interesting to note that most popular hunting centerfires (I know this is a general statement so don't be too critical ) set at 1" high at 50 will be good out to at least 200. (give or take 2")
Many have a similar trajectory assuming the projectiles are spire design.

[Member-Deleted]

I run my 22-250 at 1.5'' high @ 100yds and aim slightly above the middle of what i'm shooting at and i am getting around 350yds comfortably
My 25-06 i zero at 100yds because its got a etched reticle with ballistic markings so for me i don't need to zero 1'' high scope is good out to 800yds
but i'm still working my way up to 800yds, i run out of paddock at 450yds awhile back and haven't got back to it
Also something i've noticed is that when i had the plex reticle on both rifles they shot pretty much the same as far as drop goes with 1.5'' high @100yds
out to 350yds, this was a bit of an eye opener for me

Cheers

[Gamerancher]

My post was directed at the ballistics of the .308 Win load that SHV is working with.
Ballistics of other chamberings will of coarse vary, but the same basic principle applies, the shorter the range that you zero for, the shorter your maximum PBR.
With your ballistic reticle, you are basically sighting it higher at 100 by the change in cross-hair you use. This in turn is extending your PBR. An interesting exercise would be to put it on paper @ 100yds using each different marking. This will tell how much higher each increment actually is. A quick look at a ballistic calculator will then give you your zero range for each one.

[Member-Deleted]

OK mate will try that it's all good fun
It's all a little bit more to try and can be put it in the old noggin for a later date
I have set the ballistic reticle to a calculator but haven't actually put both rifles on paper side by side which could be interesting as you said
I'll try it and see how it goes

Thanks Cheers

[SHV]

To be honest, a lot of blokes severely limit the useful "point blank range" of their rifles by zeroing at too short a range.
A .308 Wichester, with the load you are using, would be better sighted for a 200yard zero.
Now before all of the squeals about that being "too far" for a hunting rifle, and "I never shoot anything past 150", let me explain.
A 200yd zero will have the bullet printing about 1' high @ 50, 2.3" high @ 100, 2" high @ 150, spot on @ 200, 3.7" low @ 250 and 9.4" low @ 300Yds.
So, any "game" between 0 and 250 yards, ( your effective PBR ), you just aim in the middle of the boiler room and it will be a kill shot, ( if you do your bit of coarse).
You also have the ability to take a reliable shot at game out to 300 because a back-line hold will still drop into the desired target area. NO HOLD-OVER.
That same rifle zeroed @ 100yards will print POA @ 50, POA @ 100, 1.5" LOW @ 150, 4.6" LOW @ 200, 9.6" LOW @ 250 and 16.6" LOW @ 300yards.
You effectively loose 50 yards of PBR and get into hold-over territory @ 250. Cheers,

good to know, thanks a lot, once have the chance will sigh in at 200 meters