Tannerite in Australia

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Tannerite in Australia

Post by yycadm » 08 Nov 2016, 9:33 am

Hello to all of you Australian shooters!

I'm a Foriegner in your midst; I'm a Canadian, curious about the misery you experience with gun laws in your country. One thing I've been curious about is
Tannerite in Australia; are you able to acquire it/possess it?

I ask because we have some rather onerous firearms laws in Canada as well, however by all appearances not as difficult to live with as your laws. For example, where Adler shotguns caused a huge furor in Australia over their capacities, they are sold in Canada with no restrictions whatsoever. I purchased an Adler 6 months ago with a 13inch factory barrel, and it is still completely unrestricted; as long as I have a valid firearms acquisition certificate, (PAL-"Possess & acquisition licence), I can own and use it with relative impunity. We are also permitted to own Rossi Mare's legs as an unrestricted rifle.

Tannerite is another effectively unrestricted item. We can purchase it anywhere it's normally sold; most gun stores carry it? What about Australia? are you able to own or use it? It's such a great, fun way to spend an afternoon, one would think in either country, the "Fun Police" would have shut it down. Not so here; how about there?
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by dpskipper » 08 Nov 2016, 9:47 am

Not sure about exploding stuff. I believe Tannerite is used in exploding targets. My guess is its banned. If you can't use fireworks then anything else that goes "bang" would be as well. Exblast make some exploding targets that can be sold here. You put some kind of powder in a empty water bottle, pressurize the bottle with a bike bump, and shoot it. It goes pop.
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by on_one_wheel » 08 Nov 2016, 9:48 am

Iv'e never seen or heard of it used in Australia.

Being an explosive you'd most likely need a explosives license and I'll bet that even then you'd be lucky to get your hands on it here.
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by yycadm » 08 Nov 2016, 11:02 am

It's certainly interesting to see the differing priorities from government to government. I know a big driving force in your country and it's controls was the Port Arthur massacre, yet similar things have occured here as well, and although they too influenced gun laws, they did so in vastly different ways. Being as close to America as we are, the great differences between the two countries are even more apparent, where in some parts of the US, it's more common to see people walking around armed than unarmed. I'm not overly comfortable with that, however I think that there is a common ground that could be attainable between the "no holds barred" approach to guns in America, and the stifling restrictions you, we, Britian & much of Europe live under.
It's odd that such severe limitations exist with fireworks, tannerite, etc. Here, fireworks are only available to those 18 and over, as is tannerite. For the most part, they are self-policing; misuse of either is likely to result in someone reporting it to Police. With Tannerite, there has been VERY little abuse reported. That said, I'm continually amazed that it's so freely accessible here. If you've never used it, it's impressive; a half pound container easily equals a stick of dynamite in explosive force.

Thank for the info! I hope for your sake that there is some relaxation in some of the laws surrounding firearms. Things like the uproar over Adler shotguns are simply foolish; I have a number of firearms FAR more "dangerous" than the Adler is
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by Chronos » 08 Nov 2016, 6:26 pm

It was introduce here a few years back, rather than going out and having a bit of fun a heap of forum rednecks posted dozens of posts, vids and pics and it was soon brought to the attention of authorities and was summarily banned. technically it's not an explosive but that doesn't stop things that look fun and potentially dangerous being banned

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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by Title_II » 08 Nov 2016, 9:00 pm

Chronos wrote:It was introduce here a few years back, rather than going out and having a bit of fun a heap of forum rednecks posted dozens of posts, vids and pics and it was soon brought to the attention of authorities and was summarily banned. technically it's not an explosive but that doesn't stop things that look fun and potentially dangerous being banned

Chronos


Under American laws, it is not an explosive when being TRANSPORTED, un mixed. The first component is ammonium nitrate, which is a high explosive, but is legally considered an oxidizer since it is difficult to detonate. the second component is mostly aluminum wtih some sensitizers. Once mixed for use, it is an explosive by any definition - essentially a form of Ammonol. That would be the explosive used in in the US MOAB and Daisy Cutter. It was also used as the main bursting charge for many bombs and weapons during WWII.
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by sbd3927 » 08 Nov 2016, 9:46 pm

Ammonium Nitrate has been banned here for general sale for at least a decade. Prior to that it was used primarily as a fertiliser.

It was only realised to be an explosive when an entire ship load caught fire and eventually exploded. When detonated the decomposition produces excess oxygen, which can be used for extra energy from fuel oil or even greater energy from Aluminium powder.
It would still see use in australia as a licenced explosive, but is no longer available as fertiliser. There went one of the most useful forms of agricultural nitrogen, requiring nothing more than air and hydrogen to produce.
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by Chronos » 09 Nov 2016, 8:13 am

Title_II wrote:
Chronos wrote:It was introduce here a few years back, rather than going out and having a bit of fun a heap of forum rednecks posted dozens of posts, vids and pics and it was soon brought to the attention of authorities and was summarily banned. technically it's not an explosive but that doesn't stop things that look fun and potentially dangerous being banned

Chronos


Under American laws, it is not an explosive when being TRANSPORTED, un mixed. The first component is ammonium nitrate, which is a high explosive, but is legally considered an oxidizer since it is difficult to detonate. the second component is mostly aluminum wtih some sensitizers. Once mixed for use, it is an explosive by any definition - essentially a form of Ammonol. That would be the explosive used in in the US MOAB and Daisy Cutter. It was also used as the main bursting charge for many bombs and weapons during WWII.


Same here mate, two parts transported seperately were stable and legal to ship but as I said the fun police caught on pretty quick when people started posting vids of exploding teddy bears, fruit and other assorted things and it was banned quick smart

Unlike the US of A we have a government more akin to a cranky old spinster school mistress, no wait. More like the old nun from the blues brothers. So much as look sideways when it comes to fun and out comes the three foot rule and a whack across the head

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PS: good luck with your election today. I hope which ever way it goes things don't get worse for American shooters and hunters
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by Apollo » 09 Nov 2016, 8:56 am

A few little points here.

Ammonium Nitrate is NOT an explosive, it is a fertiliser. Ammonium Nitrate is granulated, another version is Nitram which is the Prilled version used to make ANFO (Ammonium Nitrate Fuel Oil) which is a high explosive. Being prilled (little round balls) it allows an even coating / soaking of the fuel oil and hence a better end result.

Ammonium Nitrate is not banned, it is just restricted supply and can be ordered through rural outlets that have gone to the trouble of creating safe / secure storage facilities. It was restricted because it was being used to make a rough version of ANFO. Nitram can be obtained but requires an explosives permit but for those in the business it is much better to just aquire the manufactured version, ANFO and transported to where it's required.

The ship/s that are known to explode carrying Ammonium Nitrate happens through a combination of rare events that happened to combine at the wrong time. One such example was a shipment of ammonium nitrate that was contaminated by a fuel oil leak in the vessel, that then combined with a fire onboard and something else which cased a minor explosion that then caused the ammonium nitrate fuel oil mixture to explode. BTW, the Ammonium Nitrate & Fuel Oil had to be in the correct proportion to be dangerous and that in itself was one of those chances in a million that happened. Too little or too much fuel oil and it doesn't work.

ANFO by itself will not explode, you can hit it as hard as you like and or burn it as hot as you like and it will not explode. It is a rather safe product. An explosion is required to detonate ANFO like a Half Stick or more of Plastic Explosive which in itself needs a detonator to cause it to explode.

The only really dangerous part of the whole mix is the detonator, just a big Primer which is set off with either a burning fuse or electric charge. Not sure but I think you might find these days that ANFO and Detonators are not transposted together.
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by on_one_wheel » 09 Nov 2016, 4:28 pm

Ammonia nitrate is still readily available but it's now "coated" to prevent it's use as an explosive. The coating prevents deisel from mixing in with the Ammonia nitrate to make ANFO.

ANFO (or AN/FO, for ammonium nitrate/fuel oil) is a widely used bulk industrial explosive mixture. It consists of 94% porous prilled ammonium nitrate (NH4NO3) (AN) that acts as the oxidizing agent and absorbent for the fuel and 6% number 2 fuel oil (FO).

It's still a very popular explosive in the mining industry. ( obviously made using uncoated ammonium nitrate )
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by Supaduke » 09 Nov 2016, 5:10 pm

All this talk of explosives reminds me of when I was a young fella. I worked on a farm as a general hand. The farmer had an explosives license and would use gelagnite to help remove tree stumps.

On occasion we would fill an empty 220litre (44gal for you Yankees) fuel drum with water. Drop a stick of gelly in with about a minutes worth of fuse and run like hell.

BOOM!! Damn those things were spectacular when they went off. Would often launch the barrel 100m into the sky.

They always went off just as you thought the fuse was a dud.
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by Apollo » 09 Nov 2016, 5:42 pm

Mid 1980's was the last time I can remember buying explosives (Nitram, Plastigel, Detonators, Safety Fuse, Cordite) and in NSW you didn't need a Licence of any description, just be a Farmer. Rock up to the Police Station and ask for a Permit to Purchase with a list of quantities like 100kg of Nitram then off to the Rural Store who stocked all the items.
Then go and spend a week blowing stumps and/or creating post holes in rock etc. Spend the next week or three filling all the holes with a Tractor and/or Dozer. The left over items went to go use for a bit of entertainment, just like Mythbusters and their Concrete Truck... :D :D

BTW. The last time I heard Tannerite mentioned I think it was some young fella in Victoria that got busted for manufacturing explosives. I believe he obtained a quantity of ammonium nitrate and was busy grinding it to powder whilst he awaited his delivery of aluminium oxide powder he had purchased on eBay. What he didn't expect after the postman delivered his eBay purchase was to be visitored by a number of Federal Police all decked out and ready for anything. Don't ever know what happed to that guy. Probably still changing his undies..... :unknown:
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by Title_II » 10 Nov 2016, 6:33 am

Apollo wrote:A few little points here.

Ammonium Nitrate is NOT an explosive, it is a fertiliser. Ammonium Nitrate is granulated, another version is Nitram which is the Prilled version used to make ANFO (Ammonium Nitrate Fuel Oil) which is a high explosive. Being prilled (little round balls) it allows an even coating / soaking of the fuel oil and hence a better end result.

Ammonium Nitrate is not banned, it is just restricted supply and can be ordered through rural outlets that have gone to the trouble of creating safe / secure storage facilities. It was restricted because it was being used to make a rough version of ANFO. Nitram can be obtained but requires an explosives permit but for those in the business it is much better to just aquire the manufactured version, ANFO and transported to where it's required.

The ship/s that are known to explode carrying Ammonium Nitrate happens through a combination of rare events that happened to combine at the wrong time. One such example was a shipment of ammonium nitrate that was contaminated by a fuel oil leak in the vessel, that then combined with a fire onboard and something else which cased a minor explosion that then caused the ammonium nitrate fuel oil mixture to explode. BTW, the Ammonium Nitrate & Fuel Oil had to be in the correct proportion to be dangerous and that in itself was one of those chances in a million that happened. Too little or too much fuel oil and it doesn't work.

ANFO by itself will not explode, you can hit it as hard as you like and or burn it as hot as you like and it will not explode. It is a rather safe product. An explosion is required to detonate ANFO like a Half Stick or more of Plastic Explosive which in itself needs a detonator to cause it to explode.

The only really dangerous part of the whole mix is the detonator, just a big Primer which is set off with either a burning fuse or electric charge. Not sure but I think you might find these days that ANFO and Detonators are not transposted together.


All versions of ammonium nitrate are explosive. In the past 20 years (100 for all I know) If you ordered fertilizer you got prills. that is not the difference in the stuff they use to manufacture explosives. The difference is they make it more porous. I'v been told the primary reason is to lower the density.

ANFO by itself will not explode, you can hit it as hard as you like and or burn it as hot as you like and it will not explode. It is a rather safe product. An explosion is required to detonate ANFO like a Half Stick or more of Plastic Explosive which in itself needs a detonator to cause it to explode.

The 40 lbm US Military cratering charge uses up to 10 lbm of TNT tp set off. It is not ANFO, it is ammonium nitrate. And I''m sure it's not the junky kind ;)

http://operatormanuals.tpub.com/TM-9-13 ... 120044.htm

I think you and I are just focoused on different things. I'm sort of focussing on the AN and I think you are focussing on proper ANFO.
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by Title_II » 10 Nov 2016, 6:34 am

Thanks, Chronos. Should be interesting times.
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by Apollo » 10 Nov 2016, 9:03 am

It seems I have been buying my fertiliser from a different shop...
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by Title_II » 10 Nov 2016, 12:22 pm

If you are using it for fertilizer, urea is higher in N2. Most peple that use AN want that extra N, but I don't know if it has other nice crop properties.
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by Apollo » 10 Nov 2016, 2:00 pm

Title_II wrote:If you are using it for fertilizer, urea is higher in N2. Most peple that use AN want that extra N, but I don't know if it has other nice crop properties.


We are getting totally Off Topic but I used to buy AN by the 1,000kg lots for Pasture, not crops. Spread with a tractor just a day before rain was due and that was the best to save the Nitrogen escaping into nowhere other than make grass grow quick. Farmer, not crop grower. It does work even better if it is actually in the ground.

Talking about explosives, even Flour is an explosive..... Better be careful when I mix my next cake.... :sarcasm:
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by on_one_wheel » 11 Nov 2016, 2:36 pm

Oxy acetylene and a garbage bag.
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by Gun-nut » 16 Nov 2016, 7:23 pm

dpskipper wrote:Not sure about exploding stuff. I believe Tannerite is used in exploding targets. My guess is its banned. If you can't use fireworks then anything else that goes "bang" would be as well. Exblast make some exploding targets that can be sold here. You put some kind of powder in a empty water bottle, pressurize the bottle with a bike bump, and shoot it. It goes pop.


But that's the thing, fireworks are illegal yet people acquire and use them all the time in my area (Melbourne) and the police couldn't care less. Though I do recall they were selling tannerite here in Oz a couple of years back, never heard of anything since.
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by dpskipper » 16 Nov 2016, 8:18 pm

Don't rely on laissez faire cops. All it takes is one d**khead and they ruin the fun for everyone.
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by Wobble » 18 Nov 2016, 11:08 am

Gun-nut wrote:Though I do recall they were selling tannerite here in Oz a couple of years back, never heard of anything since.


It was legal relatively recently I though, banned from import a few years ago or something?

Never used it myself so can't recall exactly.
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by Bren » 18 Nov 2016, 5:48 pm

Ok so maybe I can clear a few things up.

Ammounium Nitrate holds a hazard class of oxidiser 5.1 unless mixed with a prescribed fuel.
It then becomes a blasting agent of class 1 and is treated as HE albeit with a lower explosive power. (.6 of tnt)
A few years back after security reviews directly related to the events of 9/11 a nationwide approach to ammonium nitrate was taken.
Ammonium nitrate emulsions and mixtures of greater than 45% AN were determined to be security sensitive and labelled SSAN.(there is a bunch more technical stuff involved but not needed for this post relating to Calcium Ammonium Nitrate emulsions etc).
The percentages of Fuel in AN vary depending on the application but recent events have indicated that contamination of technical grade SSAN as low as .05% increase the explosion risk during transport related events.
Given the Self accelerating decomposition temperature of AN is around 350C its easy to see how transport accidents can happen.
Previous comments have indicated that SSAN cannot explode on its own are technically correct but that assumes technical grade and uncontaminated by any fuel source.(yeah right..coal dust, grass ,wheat grain , rubber , aluminium, organic dirt the list goes on.)
OK so back story over Tannerite was assessed as and all states prohibited the use of the product due to
a - it contained SSAN when in its component parts.
b - its a class 1 explosive when mixed.
c - its illegal to shoot explosives.
d - people in this country were hurt badly with it.


so yeah ..its illegal for good reason
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by Gun-nut » 18 Nov 2016, 7:49 pm

Bren wrote:Ok so maybe I can clear a few things up.

Ammounium Nitrate holds a hazard class of oxidiser 5.1 unless mixed with a prescribed fuel.
It then becomes a blasting agent of class 1 and is treated as HE albeit with a lower explosive power. (.6 of tnt)
A few years back after security reviews directly related to the events of 9/11 a nationwide approach to ammonium nitrate was taken.
Ammonium nitrate emulsions and mixtures of greater than 45% AN were determined to be security sensitive and labelled SSAN.(there is a bunch more technical stuff involved but not needed for this post relating to Calcium Ammonium Nitrate emulsions etc).
The percentages of Fuel in AN vary depending on the application but recent events have indicated that contamination of technical grade SSAN as low as .05% increase the explosion risk during transport related events.
Given the Self accelerating decomposition temperature of AN is around 350C its easy to see how transport accidents can happen.
Previous comments have indicated that SSAN cannot explode on its own are technically correct but that assumes technical grade and uncontaminated by any fuel source.(yeah right..coal dust, grass ,wheat grain , rubber , aluminium, organic dirt the list goes on.)
OK so back story over Tannerite was assessed as and all states prohibited the use of the product due to
a - it contained SSAN when in its component parts.
b - its a class 1 explosive when mixed.
c - its illegal to shoot explosives.
d - people in this country were hurt badly with it.


so yeah ..its illegal for good reason
bt


Well...where's the fun in that? :D
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by thegooch » 24 Mar 2017, 3:56 pm

It was sold a while back but I cant find anyone who sells it anymore
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by p3seven » 25 Mar 2017, 9:21 am

ANFO=1 lb prilled Amonium Nitrate. (The prills are microscopic holes in the little round pelletts of Ammonium Nitrate (AN) to help the diesel absorb). And 1 fluid oz. of diesel. Make up enough to suit the job
Mix in a concrete mixer and let stand for a hour.
You then scoop into a hole where you want to blow stump or rock up.
Tamp in 1/2 stick of gelignite (dynamite) tied off with a couple ft of primacord (explosive cord) to which you attach an electronic or a fire fuse primer. Light fuse and walk away 75 yards. Or, run out wire to the electric blast controller and twist. BOOM

This mix is still used in open cut mines the ANFO is mixed and pumped by large concrete trucks, into the drilled blast holes.
This was the fun we used to have before big bull dozers with rippers came along.

You will notice instructions are in imperial thats how long ago it was that we did this. No licence for the Ammonium Nitrate. Explosive licence needed for the Gelignite, Primacord and Detonators
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Re: Tannerite in Australia

Post by Rgo » 25 Mar 2017, 9:42 am

It is now SSAN (security sensitive ammonium nitrate) You can still by the prilled fertiliser type which is coated so it won't absorb Fuel Oil (diesel).
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