Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swaying?

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Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swaying?

Post by veep » 05 Feb 2017, 10:12 am

What's your guys method for this?
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by bladeracer » 05 Feb 2017, 11:12 am

veep wrote:What's your guys method for this?



I don't try to keep it on the target, I just try to fire when the sight is in the right spot.
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by Mick280 » 05 Feb 2017, 11:46 am

Also make sure your scope is positioned correctly so as you get your full sight picture as soon as you shoulder it and that the outfit is balanced and comfortable for you!!!
You don't become a decent offhand shooter without putting in a few hrs of practice either!!!
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by Gwion » 05 Feb 2017, 12:27 pm

Stance is quite important. I still need to practice it more but find i do best when aiming my stance at the target and then raise the rifle onto the target. With out a long winded explanation, that's the best i can explain it. "Natural Point of Aim" is the key phrase here. Don't move the rifle onto target, move your stance.

Stance, aim, close eyes for 10 seconds, open eyes.
If you are off target, adjust your stance (not the rifle) until you are on target; this may be as slight as moving one heel a few center meters or having to step a bit wider.
Repeat.
This will help you find the stance that gives you a true natural point of aim.

Somebody into silhouette will have better advice but that's what helps me.
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by bladeracer » 05 Feb 2017, 12:50 pm

Gwion wrote:Stance is quite important. I still need to practice it more but find i do best when aiming my stance at the target and then raise the rifle onto the target. With out a long winded explanation, that's the best i can explain it. "Natural Point of Aim" is the key phrase here. Don't move the rifle onto target, move your stance.

Stance, aim, close eyes for 10 seconds, open eyes.
If you are off target, adjust your stance (not the rifle) until you are on target; this may be as slight as moving one heel a few center meters or having to step a bit wider.
Repeat.
This will help you find the stance that gives you a true natural point of aim.

Somebody into silhouette will have better advice but that's what helps me.



Good info Gwion.
My biggest problem here is the crosswind that is constantly gusting over the hill.
I've been practising offhand with the .22 at 100m at 66mm fish cans, occasionally even hitting one!
Flexing against a side wind that suddenly dies can have me wandering several feet across the target.
I'm putting 100% of my shots into about 10" which is impressive, but nowhere near good enough to hit the rimfire silhouettes - yet!
I'm going to need a quality trigger too I think for a much finer break.
I'm using Remington Target which is cheap and groups around 4" at 100m off the bench. Eley Edge and Match can hold around 2" but is too expensive for plinking.
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by deye243 » 05 Feb 2017, 2:38 pm

I sweep shoot
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by bigfellascott » 05 Feb 2017, 3:42 pm

deye243 wrote:I sweep shoot


Sounds like what I do, I also wrap the sling around my forearm to help stiffen the whole process up, mind you I've struggling with it all these days due to my physical limitations so I try and find something to rest against (tree, bonnet, vehicle window, bipod etc) anything to help :D
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by bladeracer » 05 Feb 2017, 3:55 pm

bigfellascott wrote:Sounds like what I do, I also wrap the sling around my forearm to help stiffen the whole process up, mind you I've struggling with it all these days due to my physical limitations so I try and find something to rest against (tree, bonnet, vehicle window, bipod etc) anything to help :D



I shoot with a sling as well, but it's not allowed in Metallic Silhouette :-(
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by bigfellascott » 05 Feb 2017, 3:56 pm

Triggers make a big difference in offhand type shooting apps (as it does with most shooting I guess) heavy ones will tend to see you moving off POA I find, I like crisp lightish triggers for the most part and depending on the size of the target I will try and find something to help stabilise me if I can, if not I have a crack and see what happens, just depends on the situation at the time as to what I end up doing. :thumbsup:
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by sneaker » 10 Feb 2017, 10:06 am

bladeracer wrote:I don't try to keep it on the target, I just try to fire when the sight is in the right spot.


Me too.
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by Supaduke » 10 Feb 2017, 10:13 am

I've found not waiting too long also helps. The longer you hold your rifle the more you wobble. Shoulder, sight the target, fire!
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by Gamerancher » 10 Feb 2017, 11:37 am

Re- Off-hand shooting for Metallic Silhouette.
Gwion is on the money about stance, if your natural point of aim is not on target - move your feet.
You need to have a consistent hold that is comfortable and repeatable. This takes time and practice. You may try a number of different stance/hold positions before you find one that works for you. Some shooters hold short, others long, some, somewhere in between.
All shooters wobble, some more, some a lot more, ( me ) than others. It is a matter of learning to reduce it and manage it.
Breathing control, trigger control and follow through, ( staying on target after the shot ), will count for a lot more than the gear you are using.

What is your set up at the moment? A lot of folks take up the sport with standard "rabbit" rifles which are more than adequate to kick off with.( about 50% of rifles on the line would be #2 Brno's or CZ's)
If you stick with it and want to get serious, a good quality target scope with good, repeatable adjustments and paralex adjustment will be your first commitment.
Ideally, you need to find ammo that your rifle will shoot under 2" @ 100m. A drink can lying on its side @ 100m is a good idea of the size of the ram targets.
Best bet would be to get along to a match and have a go. You'll be more than welcome and you can get a better idea about what I've stated above.
Silhouette is a challenging discipline, but, watching a chicken fly off the stand, a ram getting flattened and that satisfying clang of a hit target can be a bit more exciting than poking holes in paper. ( no offence to our paper punchers ) :D
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by Oldbloke » 10 Feb 2017, 11:47 am

"Sounds like what I do, I also wrap the sling around my forearm to help stiffen the whole process up, mind you I've struggling with it all these days due to my physical limitations so I try and find something to rest against (tree, bonnet, vehicle window, bipod etc) anything to help :D"

Much the same here. Also often use shooting stix.
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by bladeracer » 10 Feb 2017, 11:56 am

Gamerancher wrote:Ideally, you need to find ammo that your rifle will shoot under 2" @ 100m.



Is everybody shooting different ammo?
Are there some more common choices that tend to shoot well?
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by Chronos » 10 Feb 2017, 1:11 pm

Just talking from my personal experience here shooting service rifle and high power rifle (standing, sitting and prone) with a sling and shooting metallic silhouette (rimfire and centerfire) without a sling.

Not many people can stand still and hold the rifle perfectly on target while they get the shot away. With low powered scopes and even iron sights it may feel like it buy throw a 12 power or higher scope on a rifle and see how the crosshairs seem to stay still at first but soon start doing ever increasing circles around the target :lol:

As others have said you need to find your natural point of aim and practice your stance. this can be done at home aiming at a point down the hallway or across the lounge room. Some dry fire but some simply pretend to ul the trigger at their chosen trigger release point. This exercise also helps your muscle memory develop so that your stance feels more and more natural. It's important that you're training the correct techniques as you don't want to be reinforcing bad habits

I found both with and without a sling i tended to breath in and out, the rifle rising off the target and falling back onto the target at the bottom of the breath where i would pause and squeeze the trigger. At one point I did experiment with pausing and firing at the top of the breath (full lungs) which when shooting with a sling can "tighten" everything up in much as the sling (single point) though I found there was more "pulse" transferred through the sling and in the end went back to shooting on exhale just at the bottom of the breath.

In silhouette it's a little different because you don't have the sling and you tend to use your weak hand (left hand for a right handed shooter). The weak hand tends to support or cradle the rifle rather than pull the rifle back into your shoulder so you fatigue less which is important over a 40 or 80 shot match

Things like wind gusts can play havoc with your timing and many a silhouette shooter in canberra has had to hold their shot as a gust blows them off target or even off their feet hahaha

in a hunting situation with a two point sling the technique differs slightly as shots tend to be taken much quicker and with less demand for extreme accuracy

shooting sticks are a good option and also make a handy wigle stick wrangler if required :lol:

The main thing is as was said above you need to practice and rimfire silhouette is a great way to improve your hunting skills

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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by Gamerancher » 10 Feb 2017, 1:58 pm

With .22 rimfire, ammo is something we can't "tweak". You have to buy it as is, price gets quality, definitely applies.
However, .22's can be fussy bastards of things, I've seen blokes spend up on top dollar ammo,(talking $45+ / box of 50) only to find their rifle doesn't like it. :thumbsdown: If you can get a lower priced one that shoots well in your rifle you won't be the only one. :thumbsup:

You ask what the Silhouette shooters are using,answer is, a wide variety. Some of our top shooters will use the top level stuff at major events IF their rifle shoots that best. Then again, I've seen one of our best turn up and shoot old Winchester "Winners".
Some of the "club" level target loads shoot pretty well and are worth buying a few boxes of different brands and trying in your rifle.
Not too many shoot high velocity "hunting" ammo, the lower velocity "target" loads are definitely better for this sport. It is even still used in .22BPCR Small-bore where we shoot the chickens @ 50m, pigs @ 100m, turkeys @ 150m and the rams @ 200m.
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by bladeracer » 10 Feb 2017, 2:55 pm

Gamerancher wrote:With .22 rimfire, ammo is something we can't "tweak". You have to buy it as is, price gets quality, definitely applies.
However, .22's can be fussy bastards of things, I've seen blokes spend up on top dollar ammo,(talking $45+ / box of 50) only to find their rifle doesn't like it. :thumbsdown: If you can get a lower priced one that shoots well in your rifle you won't be the only one. :thumbsup:

You ask what the Silhouette shooters are using,answer is, a wide variety. Some of our top shooters will use the top level stuff at major events IF their rifle shoots that best. Then again, I've seen one of our best turn up and shoot old Winchester "Winners".
Some of the "club" level target loads shoot pretty well and are worth buying a few boxes of different brands and trying in your rifle.
Not too many shoot high velocity "hunting" ammo, the lower velocity "target" loads are definitely better for this sport. It is even still used in .22BPCR Small-bore where we shoot the chickens @ 50m, pigs @ 100m, turkeys @ 150m and the rams @ 200m.



I thought that would be the case :-)
The best stuff I've tried is capable of maintaining 2MoA out to 100m off the bench in my Ruger, but it's far too expensive for informal practice.
I have a handful of others that are good for 4MoA out to 100m which is good enough for practicing on cans I think.
If I'm only shooting to 50m I have a larger choice that shoots well at shorter ranges.

My brother just bought himself a Model 64 Anschutz and told that it likes Eley Tennex...which is around $35-$45 a box! I'm hoping we can find something much, much cheaper he can practice with :-)

I know that keeping the bullet below transition velocity is vital for accuracy.
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by Gamerancher » 13 Feb 2017, 8:04 am

Try CCI standard, RWS Geco, Federal target, SK magazine at the lower end of the price range, it just goes up from there. I've found that Euro rifles tend to shoot Euro ammo better, however, one of my Sako's loves the top grade Federal. Nothing is a certain bet when it comes to .22LR ammo.
In testing for silhouette I have found that most ammo will hold fairly well out to 76m, (turkey distance), the test is what will group at 100m. Ideally, you strive for under 1 and 1/2 inch for more consistent target hits. Tighter the better of course. Suck it and see is about the only thing you can do.
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by Gwion » 13 Feb 2017, 9:05 am

A lot of 22lr ammunition (according to the JB charts I've done) are 'transonic' anywhere between 50-70m. It really surprised me how quickly they dumped velocity after the 50mark.

One of my 22lr will shoot tight to 50, well enough for reliable kill shots to 70-80 but trying to group at 100 is all over the shop!
My theory is it is losing stability at transonic, which only effects it slightly by 70m but by 100m the unstable bullet can be anywhere in an 6" diameter due to a varied level of instability (yore & pitch) which is also effected by slight changes in conditions during and after the transonic phase.

Haven't tried any subs or target ammo as variety is pretty slim locally.
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by Gwion » 13 Feb 2017, 9:07 am

Gamerancher, im surprised the subsonic loads have enough left to knock over the targets out at 100!
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by Gamerancher » 13 Feb 2017, 2:41 pm

Nah mate, no worries at all at 100m. There were blokes who had doubts that they would work @ 200m when we started that game but I'm yet to have a ram stand. It is surprising how accurate it can be, I've shot 200m groups well under 3" with vernier sights.
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by Chronos » 13 Feb 2017, 4:04 pm

Gwion wrote:A lot of 22lr ammunition (according to the JB charts I've done) are 'transonic' anywhere between 50-70m. It really surprised me how quickly they dumped velocity after the 50mark.

One of my 22lr will shoot tight to 50, well enough for reliable kill shots to 70-80 but trying to group at 100 is all over the shop!
My theory is it is losing stability at transonic, which only effects it slightly by 70m but by 100m the unstable bullet can be anywhere in an 6" diameter due to a varied level of instability (yore & pitch) which is also effected by slight changes in conditions during and after the transonic phase.

Haven't tried any subs or target ammo as variety is pretty slim locally.


Exactly the reason to use subsonic ammo at 100 and even 200m G, supersonic ammo goes transonic as you say at around 70 m where as subsonic ammo doesn't suffer this issue

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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by Gwion » 13 Feb 2017, 5:20 pm

Good to know they still have enough punch at 200! I thought subsonic ammo was just a paper punch at that range.
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by bladeracer » 13 Feb 2017, 5:27 pm

Gwion wrote:Good to know they still have enough punch at 200! I thought subsonic ammo was just a paper punch at that range.



710fps CCI Quiet will penetrate corrugated steel wall cladding out to about 165m. At 180m it was bouncing off, though leaving a decent dent.
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by Chronos » 13 Feb 2017, 8:14 pm

Gwion wrote:Good to know they still have enough punch at 200! I thought subsonic ammo was just a paper punch at that range.


To be clear I was mainly talking about bullet stability at 200m, not energ. only ever shot paper out there


At 100m where silhouette rams are shot they will knock a ram down but the target won't fly like a chicken or pig will when hit, more a topple over

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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by Strikey » 13 Feb 2017, 9:07 pm

Gamerancher wrote:Try CCI standard, RWS Geco, Federal target, SK magazine at the lower end of the price range, it just goes up from there. I've found that Euro rifles tend to shoot Euro ammo better, however, one of my Sako's loves the top grade Federal. Nothing is a certain bet when it comes to .22LR ammo.
In testing for silhouette I have found that most ammo will hold fairly well out to 76m, (turkey distance), the test is what will group at 100m. Ideally, you strive for under 1 and 1/2 inch for more consistent target hits. Tighter the better of course. Suck it and see is about the only thing you can do.


What range are you shooting at mate, if their Turkeys are at 76m I'll be protesting,lol

Anyway, lots of good advice here for the OP to get started with silhouette shooting, I will throw in a few other things worth considering, balance of the rifle is important, everyone prefers something different but a very front heavy rifle becomes tiring for the support arm and back muscles, the stock's length of pull should be so you are not straining to reach the trigger, learn to shoot with both eyes open as it helps with balance and too much practice is never enough ;)
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Re: Freehand shooting, try to stabilize or anticipate swayin

Post by Gamerancher » 14 Feb 2017, 8:23 am

Sorry Strikey, fat fingers and no proof read :oops: , 77m is the correct distance for rimfire chickens.
O.P was talking about having a go with the rifle he already has, which I don't think he has told us what his set-up is.( rifle, scope )
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