MSRC SSAA National Lever Action Silhouette Championships

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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 11 Jan 2018, 1:09 pm

Gamerancher wrote:For small-bore lever gun targets, ammo that has a 40gr bullet @ 1100 - 1200f/s M.V seems to work best on rams. They can sometimes be hard to knock down, especially if someone has set them incorrectly or there is a breeze from behind them. Even a wet rail from rain can make them harder to knock over.
Have you tried any Federal Auto-match? A lot of us have gotten good results with it.
Have you and your brother given any thought to coming to the Early Australia Day silhouette at Majura 19,20,21 January?
Scoped match, air rifle on Friday, .22 on Saturday and centre-fire Sunday.
I suppose with your ribs it might be a bit of an ask to travel up and compete. See if your brother can make it, even if just to have a look.


So far I haven't been concerned about knocking them over (although the .44 does that with vigor!). I figure I can't knock over what I can't hit, so I'm concentrating on getting the hits for now :-)

Federal Auto Match is not one I tested so I'm guessing it's not very common. I just rang my local and he doesn't show it as available from NIOA, but he's going to call them and try to get me a box to try.

The CCI SV makes about 70ft/lb of energy at 100m, the Velocitor makes 100ft/lb.
40% more energy has got to help surely. I note that the rules disallow "hyper-velocity" rimfire ammo - any idea how they define that? Technically it means over 10,000fps which seems unlikely :-)

We hadn't thought about it much but I've reminded him and he might be up for a look, not me though, at least it doesn't look possible right now.
I'm staying ahead of my minimum 100rds per day practice on the silhouettes and have an FP336 peep sight coming next week for the Marlin.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 11 Jan 2018, 7:44 pm

Well, I decided to take the old 1950 BSA Sportsman 5 out for today's practice - wow!
A fairly wide V-notch but a very fine front blade make for a great sight picture - I could still see the edge of the turkey on both sides of the blade. The trigger is possibly not quite as good as the Ruger but is certainly better than the Norinco. If I put a rear aperture on this I'd probably hit everything I aimed it at :-)
Holding on the bottom edge of the pig's and chicken's bellies puts the bullets on them nicely. Dead-on hold on the Turkey but I had to hold below the feet on the ram with the CCI SV. So I tried Highland Target which is high-velocity, and they gave me hits on the ram with a dead-on hold. I've already tried the Target in the Norinco but they don't cycle at all.
9/10 chicken
19/20 pig
24/35 turkey
30/40 ram
On both the turkey and ram I shot at least one 5rd mag with no misses.
Today's effort is going to be an uphill climb for the Norinco to match I think :-)
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by Strikey » 12 Jan 2018, 8:20 am

bladeracer wrote:
Gamerancher wrote:For small-bore lever gun targets, ammo that has a 40gr bullet @ 1100 - 1200f/s M.V seems to work best on rams. They can sometimes be hard to knock down, especially if someone has set them incorrectly or there is a breeze from behind them. Even a wet rail from rain can make them harder to knock over.
Have you tried any Federal Auto-match? A lot of us have gotten good results with it.
Have you and your brother given any thought to coming to the Early Australia Day silhouette at Majura 19,20,21 January?
Scoped match, air rifle on Friday, .22 on Saturday and centre-fire Sunday.
I suppose with your ribs it might be a bit of an ask to travel up and compete. See if your brother can make it, even if just to have a look.


So far I haven't been concerned about knocking them over (although the .44 does that with vigor!). I figure I can't knock over what I can't hit, so I'm concentrating on getting the hits for now :-)

Federal Auto Match is not one I tested so I'm guessing it's not very common. I just rang my local and he doesn't show it as available from NIOA, but he's going to call them and try to get me a box to try.

The CCI SV makes about 70ft/lb of energy at 100m, the Velocitor makes 100ft/lb.
40% more energy has got to help surely. I note that the rules disallow "hyper-velocity" rimfire ammo - any idea how they define that? Technically it means over 10,000fps which seems unlikely :-)

We hadn't thought about it much but I've reminded him and he might be up for a look, not me though, at least it doesn't look possible right now.
I'm staying ahead of my minimum 100rds per day practice on the silhouettes and have an FP336 peep sight coming next week for the Marlin.


The rules disallow hyper velocity ammo such as CCI Stingers, more chance of ricochets and target damage other than that anyone using it will only handicap themselves as it generally isn't very accurate past 50m.
I have been following this post with interest and I am glad you are practicing lever action silhouette with some vigour but am a bit concerned about the method, if I can offer one piece of advice I recommend you get along to a properly run silhouette match to get a good grasp of it, Gamerancher has suggested going up to Canberra in a couple of weeks, the Early Australia Day shoot is possibly the most well attended event in the country and is a bloody enjoyable weekend :thumbsup:
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by Gamerancher » 12 Jan 2018, 8:23 am

"Hyper Velocity" is basically .22LR ammo that is above 1400f/s M.V.
Stingers , Yellow Jacket, Vipers, etc are all considered "Hyper" velocity and not allowed. If your Velocitor ammo is above 1400 f/s I'd be looking to use something else.

Sight picture is paramount in this game, "you can't hit what you can't see", really does apply.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jan 2018, 9:38 am

Strikey wrote:The rules disallow hyper velocity ammo such as CCI Stingers, more chance of ricochets and target damage other than that anyone using it will only handicap themselves as it generally isn't very accurate past 50m.
I have been following this post with interest and I am glad you are practicing lever action silhouette with some vigour but am a bit concerned about the method, if I can offer one piece of advice I recommend you get along to a properly run silhouette match to get a good grasp of it, Gamerancher has suggested going up to Canberra in a couple of weeks, the Early Australia Day shoot is possibly the most well attended event in the country and is a bloody enjoyable weekend :thumbsup:


Thanks Strikey :-)
Can you elucidate on my methodology at all?
For now I'm concentrating on improving my offhand abilities with iron sights rather than practicing for a specific match. The silhouettes merely add some novelty value over shooting at the usual circular targets. The national championship is merely giving me a time goal, although I do intend to shoot the comp if at all possible.
I'm not going to get to this Canberra match as Rose is taking her mum up to Bendigo leaving me here to watch the cows. My brother though is going to try to get along for a look.
I've never been one to compete in anything for medals, even motorcycle racing I was only ever trying to beat myself and become a better rider than I was the day before.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jan 2018, 10:15 am

Gamerancher wrote:"Hyper Velocity" is basically .22LR ammo that is above 1400f/s M.V.
Stingers , Yellow Jacket, Vipers, etc are all considered "Hyper" velocity and not allowed. If your Velocitor ammo is above 1400 f/s I'd be looking to use something else.

Sight picture is paramount in this game, "you can't hit what you can't see", really does apply.


Thanks Gamerancher, that does rule out the Velocitor.
I'm going to take a file to the Norinco's front sight for sure :-)
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by Strikey » 12 Jan 2018, 4:29 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Strikey wrote:The rules disallow hyper velocity ammo such as CCI Stingers, more chance of ricochets and target damage other than that anyone using it will only handicap themselves as it generally isn't very accurate past 50m.
I have been following this post with interest and I am glad you are practicing lever action silhouette with some vigour but am a bit concerned about the method, if I can offer one piece of advice I recommend you get along to a properly run silhouette match to get a good grasp of it, Gamerancher has suggested going up to Canberra in a couple of weeks, the Early Australia Day shoot is possibly the most well attended event in the country and is a bloody enjoyable weekend :thumbsup:


Thanks Strikey :-)
Can you elucidate on my methodology at all?
For now I'm concentrating on improving my offhand abilities with iron sights rather than practicing for a specific match. The silhouettes merely add some novelty value over shooting at the usual circular targets. The national championship is merely giving me a time goal, although I do intend to shoot the comp if at all possible.
I'm not going to get to this Canberra match as Rose is taking her mum up to Bendigo leaving me here to watch the cows. My brother though is going to try to get along for a look.
I've never been one to compete in anything for medals, even motorcycle racing I was only ever trying to beat myself and become a better rider than I was the day before.


Bladeracer, hope you didn't take offence, when I started silhouette many years ago I too just went out and practiced "randomly" but silhouette is for want of a better term a team sport, the shooter relies on his/her spotter to call your shot, trying to concentrate on your target with others shooting in close proximity while not burning up your time to get the five shots away is a challenge, if conditions are windy, raining etc or your rifle/ammo has a malfunction than that 2mins ( CLAS ) or 2 1/2mins ( RMS) suddenly becomes very short, can be a bit daunting for new shooters.
Gamerancher's comment about sight picture is very useful for silhouette, with rimfire follow through is the key, the high velocity rimfire ammo causes too much muzzle flip so you lose your sight picture to reference where your spotter tells you the shot went.
I like your attitude not being concerned with medals or placing, I stopped looking at the scoreboard years ago and only compete against myself at least trying to equal or better my last score, I look at the scores at the end of an event and it is what it is, far better to just enjoy the shooting although silhouette can be bloody frustrating but addictive and the sport has given me some very good friends :drinks: :drinks:
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jan 2018, 4:58 pm

Strikey wrote:Bladeracer, hope you didn't take offence, when I started silhouette many years ago I too just went out and practiced "randomly" but silhouette is for want of a better term a team sport, the shooter relies on his/her spotter to call your shot, trying to concentrate on your target with others shooting in close proximity while not burning up your time to get the five shots away is a challenge, if conditions are windy, raining etc or your rifle/ammo has a malfunction than that 2mins ( CLAS ) or 2 1/2mins ( RMS) suddenly becomes very short, can be a bit daunting for new shooters.
Gamerancher's comment about sight picture is very useful for silhouette, with rimfire follow through is the key, the high velocity rimfire ammo causes too much muzzle flip so you lose your sight picture to reference where your spotter tells you the shot went.
I like your attitude not being concerned with medals or placing, I stopped looking at the scoreboard years ago and only compete against myself at least trying to equal or better my last score, I look at the scores at the end of an event and it is what it is, far better to just enjoy the shooting although silhouette can be bloody frustrating but addictive and the sport has given me some very good friends :drinks: :drinks:


Nope, no offence at all, just genuine interest :-)
I wasn't aware of the spotters. I hate spotters in practical shooting sports, like IPSC. Knowing what your bullet is doing should be a critical part of the sport, not left for somebody else to tell you the target is down so you can engage the next one.
My interest in any shooting competition is to simply improve my skills for the real world. Competition adds novelty value that makes practice and learning more interesting and enjoyable.
Most of my practicing is done at paper cut outs of the steels so I can monitor where my misses are going, although I can't see them until I walk up to the butt afterwards.

I'm trying to get the Norinco going using bungy cord while I'm waiting for a new mainspring guide rod :-)
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jan 2018, 7:43 pm

Well, I "fixed" the Norinco so that's back in action finally :-)
No stoppages either. Maybe it runs better without the mainspring :-)
Only shot 75rds tonight as it was getting too dark to see the targets, and it's raining.
10/15 on the chicken
9/15 on the pig
5/15 on the turkey (it really was quite dark at this stage though)
3/10 on the ram (very dark and wet now)
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 15 Jan 2018, 11:02 pm

Today's effort.
Fifteen rounds on each target facing both directions except for the ram. I put 50rds on the ram to finish.
Pretty happy with how I'm going.
I need to concentrate more on aiming at the centre of mass which I think will be easier when I have a rear sight I can adjust for a dead-on hold at each range, although I think a six-o'clock hold might have value.
The sights are still putting me a little to the right but I'm still focused more on the size of my group rather than its placement over the target. Once I tighten the groups up significantly then I can start working on group placement.
The ram still confuses me. The head is a lot of real estate to ignore, and it's higher making knock down easier. But the body is so much bigger and more symmetrical. If I can get my 100m group down to 100mm then I can probably aim at the head, until then I think I'll have to focus on the oval of the body and ignore the head completely.
For the turkey I need to ignore the head as well. Including it in the "mass" draws my group up into a bunch of misses instead of keeping them clustered in the body.

Chicken 50%
Pig 70%
Turkey 30%
Ram 40%

All this talk of ammunition limits led me to set myself a challenge to shoot at least 100rds every day, and so far I'm staying on track. I had xrays today as my ribs are not improving at all, and got some strong pain relief so hopefully I'll sleep much better tonight.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 19 Jan 2018, 12:08 pm

I filed the Norinco's front sight from a 0.070" rectangle to a 0.040" taper. I also tapered it forward on the top and sides so any light hitting those faces couldn't affect my picture. Results were decent with 50% on the chicken and pig, 40% on the turkey. But I only managed 20% hits on the ram as it was too dark to make out the white target against the tan board.

I've got a 7/32"-40tpi die coming so I can make some apertures next week. And the FP336 peep arrived yesterday for the Marlin. I made the mistake of mounting it immediately, forgetting I'd just loaded test rounds with six different bullets. The scope would be preferable for load development.
I shot all jacketed bullets first to avoid them being affected by lead in the bore. I loaded them all on 8gn of Trailboss to keep them just subsonic - I wasn't wearing ears.
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The 265gn FTX didnt shoot well last time and I didn't expect it to do any better this time, so I used those to put the sight on paper at 25m. From a seated position the first went wide of the target to the left, so I adjusted the sight then put the next four into a 120mm group...at 25m. These are also too long to cycle through the tube even with 20% compression of the powder.
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Next the Nolser 240gn JHP put five into a 50mm group at 50m resting across a front bag on a chair - very nice.
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The 180gn XTP put five into a group 75mm wide but 200mm high - they might be worth testing again. These had a crack to them so I think they went supersonic.
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240gn Berry's HP Copper Plated went into a 120mm group.
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240gn Berry's Keith-style hard-cast went into a group 130mm high but only 50mm wide - worth more testing.
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232gn CBE cast RN (3 parts 7-1/2 shot to 1 part 60/40 solder) sized to .432", checked, and painted with Alox went into about a 130mm group. I fired one round at the wrong target.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 19 Jan 2018, 12:20 pm

I started getting some light strikes in the Norinco and had to tighten up the rubber band mainspring :-)

I also had a major stoppage in the Marlin. The first round did not fully exit the tube. The bullet stayed in the tube, the case on the lifter and the action fully open and jammed solid. It took me fifteen minutes with a multitool and block of wood to eventually punch the round loose. This was the first of the cast RN's and I fired it at the wrong target in disgust :-)
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 23 Jan 2018, 4:38 pm

Still holding around 30% hits on chicken, turkey and ram, and about 75% on the pigs.
I put some tape over the peep sight on the Norinco and pricked a tiny hole in it. Pretty rough hole and hazy to look through - I think due to the adhesive - but I think it's an improvement over the standard Williams 2.36mm (0.093") aperture. I'll make an aluminium insert with a 0.5mm hole first and work up from that in 0.1mm increments.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 24 Jan 2018, 6:43 pm

Turns out the current Norinco parts dealer is Luke Easton, here in Traralgon, and he had the bits I needed on the shelf.
Still shooting the Norinco with the taped-over peep sight as I haven't found my sub-mm drill bits. Poking the hole with a scribe clears it for a few shots but it quickly gets hazy like looking through cobwebs. Been shooting every day this year so far. I'm still not making any significant improvement, but I am enjoying myself :-) My groups are stabilising I think, but I'm still not putting them on the right part of each silhouette. I really need an adjustable peep sight. I might try putting an aiming mark on the board that will drop my rounds on the targets and see if that helps. It also occurred to me that I could drill a set of apertures with the holes offset to suit the specific ranges. Then I'd just have to swap in the required aperture rather than adjust sights.

Also got some Federal Auto Match and tried it off the bench in the Ruger for accuracy.
Not great, though not terrible either - after ten rounds to foul the bore I got 88mm for 10rds at 100m. But I then shot a control group of 10rds of CCI SV alongside it and got 52mm including a flier (nine rounds in 39mm).
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 01 Feb 2018, 8:47 pm

Laying in the paddock for more than hour yesterday has set my bloody ribs whining again :-)
But I mashed together a primitive 40-thou aperture on the drill press and tried it out tonight.
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Being aluminium in the white it reflected sunlight quite badly, particularly by the time I moved up to the 75m line for the turkeys - I had to hold the rifle with my left hand cupped over the sight to cut the glare. By the time I got to the Ram I gave up :-)
But I think it's very much better than the 93-thou aperture.
I've painted it with a black marker now but I think it'd be good to make a sunshade for it just to keep the light consistent.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 06 Feb 2018, 11:49 pm

I've ordered another Williams peep sight with target knobs, a new front ramp, and a Lyman globe-style front sight with inserts for the Norinco - will be a couple weeks away though. By the time that arrives I'm hoping my ribs will be healed enough to get stuck into some more .44 Magnum silhouette practice. The replaceable insert front sight is similar to my very first air rifle when I was a youngster, and if I like it on the Norinco I might have to get one for the Marlin.

I installed the new hammer spring guide rod (bloody nightmare job that is) and the new secondary ejector last week, no more bungy cord around the hammer! I've got well over 3000rds through it now and I'm still getting an occasional "false" trigger break where I take the shot but the trigger doesn't move. I think I'm going to have to pull the hammer and trigger out and stone them again to improve the break and remove the double-action feel (where I feel the trigger lifting the hammer before it drops off the sear). I think the correct way to install the hammer spring is to remove the butt stock from the action, poke the guide rod and spring through the base plate (into the stock), and drop a pin through the end of the rod to keep the spring compressed. Then install the hammer, remove the pin, and reinstall the stock. Annoying but I'm sure it'll be a lot quicker and easier than trying to compress the spring using the hammer on the guide rod while trying to juggle it into the action and put the pivot pin through.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 14 Feb 2018, 8:18 pm

Still practicing relentlessly, passed 5000rds for the year so far.
The Williams sights for the Norinco are in Customs still.
I made another aperture of 0.5mm which worked pretty well, but was very hard to see through. I ran a 0.6mm (0.023") drill bit through it which is better. It still seems to become "cobwebby" after a few minutes though and I'm starting to wonder if it's actually the aluminium oxidising. Poking it clear helps but only for a few minutes each time.
Picked up another trigger, hammer and complete magazine tube today.
Cut the tube down to five-rounds.
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Going to work on the spare hammer and trigger to try to improve the break and feel.
And I rim-batched some CCI Std Vel ammo, but it was incredibly windy here today so I haven't tested it yet.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 20 Apr 2018, 10:33 pm

Having spent weeks getting the Uberti 66 set up to give me acceptable accuracy, and having finally got it shooting consistently into about 75mm at 50m, I've learned that the sights are not acceptable for CLAS - bugger :-)

Rule 4.1.1 allows replacement rear sights, but only if that sight is specifically manufactured for that model rifle. I haven't seen any sights specifically manufactured for the Uberti 66, and it seems that "manufacturing" the sight myself using a generic-fitment Williams peep is not acceptable. Unfortunately, the original sights are not suitable for competition, so the Uberti is out.

But, I'm also using a generic-fitment Williams sight on the Norinco, and I doubt any manufacturer makes a sight specifically for the JW21. It looks like that is out also. Mark has confirmed for me tonight, that although I could shoot Pistol Caliber with the .22LR if I wish to, it has little hope of knocking down the targets which are heavier than the rimfire targets.

I guess I'll be practicing with a lot of .44 Magnum now :-)
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by groundhog » 21 Apr 2018, 3:28 am

BR as the JW21 is a replica of the Winchester 9422 any sights made for that rifle will pass scrutineering. So a Williams FP-94/36 which is made for the 9422 is ok as is the 5D/94 and the WGRS 54. There is another one that I cannot remember the code of but it attaches to the dovetail.
If you can get them, tang sights would be your best bet for the 66, there is a specific lyman tang sight for the Uberti 66 or you could give Graeme Forbes a ring at Forbes Wholesale and see if he has any pedersoli tang sights in stock.

As for the knock-down, you have no issues with chickens, pigs can be a little funny and turkeys are usually OK, where the 22LR suffers is on rams with basically horn shots and top of bum shots your only chance for knock down.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 21 Apr 2018, 9:43 am

groundhog wrote:BR as the JW21 is a replica of the Winchester 9422 any sights made for that rifle will pass scrutineering. So a Williams FP-94/36 which is made for the 9422 is ok as is the 5D/94 and the WGRS 54. There is another one that I cannot remember the code of but it attaches to the dovetail.
If you can get them, tang sights would be your best bet for the 66, there is a specific lyman tang sight for the Uberti 66 or you could give Graeme Forbes a ring at Forbes Wholesale and see if he has any pedersoli tang sights in stock.

As for the knock-down, you have no issues with chickens, pigs can be a little funny and turkeys are usually OK, where the 22LR suffers is on rams with basically horn shots and top of bum shots your only chance for knock down.


Thanks Groundhog :-)
The sight I'm using on the Norinco attaches to the dovetail as well, but it's not specifically made for the 9422 - it's just a generic dovetail-mount receiver sight. I have two types, the smaller 3/8" dovetail sight and the larger 3/8"-20mm dovetail sight with target knobs. I can't see me buying yet another sight for it.
Is there a tang sight for the 66 that does not require drilling the rifle? Pedersoli, Lyman and Marbles all require drilling a front screw into the tang.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by groundhog » 21 Apr 2018, 11:27 am

Unless the sight says it is specifically for a different rifle you will be ok.

As for the tang sight, I am pretty sure they all need 2 mounting holes in the tang sometimes the factory drillings are ok sometimes not.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by Gamerancher » 22 Apr 2018, 6:36 pm

What is the issue with drilling the tang? It's not like the Uberti is a collector's item, or ever will be for that matter. Front sight is easy, just get a 17a Lyman the height you require that slots in the dovetail. Sorry to appear blunt, just wondering.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 22 Apr 2018, 8:06 pm

Gamerancher wrote:What is the issue with drilling the tang? It's not like the Uberti is a collector's item, or ever will be for that matter. Front sight is easy, just get a 17a Lyman the height you require that slots in the dovetail. Sorry to appear blunt, just wondering.


No legitimate "issue", and it's very likely that any future owner would do so anyway.
As a carpenter, I can appreciate the effort that went into hand fitting the brass components. I'd like to keep it original for future owners.

I simply have no legitimate need to drill it. I have a very useful sight setup now that significantly enhances the functionality of the rifle for my purposes, without affecting the original rifle in any way at all. When I'm ready to pass it on, the front sight and the side plate will be included so the next owner can decide for himself - both are hand fitted to the rifle so are no good to me without it.

I'm enjoying the cartridge more than I expected, but the 66 itself does not impress me outside of its historical replication of 150 year-old firearm design. I hate to part with any firearm, but once I get myself a .357 Magnum lever I may choose to pass the Uberti to somebody more appreciative of its design.

Shooting at steel is enjoyable, but I have zero interest in competing against.other shooters. I merely thought it might add to the enjoyment by doing so in like-minded company. If I wished to be competitive, then I would have reason to drill the rifle to comply with a rulebook. I prefer to wait until I can find a less aesthetic rifle that I'll be happy to modify to suit :-)
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by Gamerancher » 22 Apr 2018, 9:24 pm

Just use your .44mag for both rifle and pistol cal, plenty of folks do.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 22 Apr 2018, 10:40 pm

Gamerancher wrote:Just use your .44mag for both rifle and pistol cal, plenty of folks do.


Yes, that's my intention now, although the Uberti is a nicer shooting rifle than the Marlin.

I'm still inclined to move the Marlin on though and get a Rossi in .44 Mag instead, so I can shoot cast bullets.

I doubt the sight on the Norinco is acceptable either though as it's not specific to the 9422 model.
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Post by Gamerancher » 25 Apr 2018, 12:10 pm

Okay, let's settle down here and stop over thinking it.
So long as you haven't modified the Williams to make it fit it will be fine. You only run into problems when you make up "adapters" to make a sight fit a rifle it wasn't made for. Simply drilling and tapping to mount a sight that is made for a lever gun is okay. There are various Williams sights out there that list "any flat sided receiver" on the mounting instructions.
We had one shooter last year who got himself into the Australian team using a straight out of the box Marlin with standard barrel sights.
Micro-groove Marlins will shoot cast bullets very well, it's just a matter of finding a load that works. A bullet that is .001" to .002" over bore diameter and keep the velocity down below 1700 is a good place to start. Jacketed bullets are allowed if that is what works in your gun.
I have a Model 94 Winchester in .44 mag with a 12 groove barrel that shoots cast bullets well enough for this game. 240gr cast bullet on top of 7 grains of Trailboss works well for pistol calibre and I used it in Tassie a few years ago for rifle class as well. Try 19 - 21 gr of 2205 also.
It 'aint benchrest, "minute of ram" is all that is required.

Message to anyone who is thinking about attending this shoot, please don't be put off attending because you don't think you'll be competitive. At the end of the day you'll be graded and only competing against shooters of similar abilities, much like golfing handicaps. If you have a lever gun that suits, just come along, have a crack and enjoy yourself. You can shoot in any or all events, so don't be put off if you don't have enough guns :lol: :friends: :drinks:
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 25 Apr 2018, 1:23 pm

Gamerancher wrote:Okay, let's settle down here and stop over thinking it.
So long as you haven't modified the Williams to make it fit it will be fine. You only run into problems when you make up "adapters" to make a sight fit a rifle it wasn't made for. Simply drilling and tapping to mount a sight that is made for a lever gun is okay. There are various Williams sights out there that list "any flat sided receiver" on the mounting instructions.
We had one shooter last year who got himself into the Australian team using a straight out of the box Marlin with standard barrel sights.
Micro-groove Marlins will shoot cast bullets very well, it's just a matter of finding a load that works. A bullet that is .001" to .002" over bore diameter and keep the velocity down below 1700 is a good place to start. Jacketed bullets are allowed if that is what works in your gun.
I have a Model 94 Winchester in .44 mag with a 12 groove barrel that shoots cast bullets well enough for this game. 240gr cast bullet on top of 7 grains of Trailboss works well for pistol calibre and I used it in Tassie a few years ago for rifle class as well. Try 19 - 21 gr of 2205 also.
It 'aint benchrest, "minute of ram" is all that is required.

Message to anyone who is thinking about attending this shoot, please don't be put off attending because you don't think you'll be competitive. At the end of the day you'll be graded and only competing against shooters of similar abilities, much like golfing handicaps. If you have a lever gun that suits, just come along, have a crack and enjoy yourself. You can shoot in any or all events, so don't be put off if you don't have enough guns :lol: :friends: :drinks:


If this is the case, then perhaps the rulebook should reflect that? The statement "...only if that sight is specifically manufactured for that model rifle." is pretty clear to me. It would also help if it explained that manufacturing a custom sight for your specific rifle is unacceptable, I have never been a fan of any rulebook forcing a competitor to purchase somebody else's idea of what is most suitable for the task. I have done what I needed to do to get my rifle shooting acceptably for my needs, it is a shame that it does not comply with the rules for this class of competition, but it works for me.

I have no doubt that some people can shoot extraordinarily well with open sights. Generally, I don't these days. I tend to prefer an aperture sight. Although the BSA Sportsman 5 sights seem to work very well for me, if I could swap them across to the Uberti and get similar accuracy that would be ideal :-) The OEM Uberti sights were giving me 300mm groups at 50m shooting prone, primarily due to the huge bead completely obscuring the target. Compared with the 1894 OEM sights with which I can shoot 75mm groups at 50m prone.

I agree, Microgroove Marlins _can_ shoot cast quite well, once you've done the hard yards to find a suitable bullet and load. So far, cast accuracy has eluded my efforts, but I'm still trying :-)
1-2-thou over works for everything else, but does not work for me at all in the Marlin, it groups like a smoothbore. Minimum 3-thou over works for me, as long as the alloy is hard, certainly too hard for hunting. I've been working within the 1000-1300fps window with cast in the .44 Mag so far, with and without checks, and tried them lubed and powdercoated. I've tried them from .429" up to .434" in three mould designs. I'm using Trailboss, AP70N and AR2205. So far, my most accurate load is a 240gn JHP at 1750fps at 3MoA at 100m. This is the load I would be using for competition, but I really would prefer a bullet I can cast myself. I think my best group to date with cast bullets is 10MoA (150mm at 50m), off the bench.

I am fully aware of the minimal accuracy required for this, but 10MoA (150mm groups at 50m) is well short of "minute of ram". I've got the Uberti down to 5MoA (75mm at 50m) consistently, off a bench, which I think is about the minimum needed from the rifle, but that's with a plated bullet - meaning I can't cast them myself. Jacketed XTP's look like improving that slightly, but again, I can't make those either. But 5MoA only works if you are skilled at offhand shooting, as the group only just covers the targets, with little leeway for error. If your offhand skills need more work then you need a more accurate load to allow for shooter error.

I have no problem in coming to shoot even if I miss every single target, there's little enjoyment when there is no learning curve. But I have to weigh spending a day on the road to get there and back, and a day lost on the farm, against simply walking out of my office and spending a few hours shooting here, like I do most days. If something needs doing I can put the rifles away, sort the chore, and go straight back to shooting. I have zero interest in posting a higher score than somebody else, or coming home with a trophy. My only goal is to come home a wiser shooter than when I went out.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by sungazer » 25 Apr 2018, 3:09 pm

I always take the attitude you don't know what you don't know. I go out and mix with the best ask any and all types of questions, start conversations that may lead to who knows. At the end of the day if I can take home just one more thing i didn't know before it was worth the trip.
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by sungazer » 06 May 2018, 8:16 pm

So who went and how did you guys fair? Also excuses for not going ect? Keep the thread going and give it an ending it deserves :) :clap:
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Re: MSRC SSAA NATIONAL LEVER ACTION SILHOUETTE CHAMPIONSHIPS

Post by bladeracer » 06 May 2018, 8:32 pm

sungazer wrote:So who went and how did you guys fair? Also excuses for not going ect? Keep the thread going and give it an ending it deserves :) :clap:


I didn't bother in the end. Probably a good thing if the weather up there was anything like it's been down here.
Decided I really can't see any additional value to shooting under other people's rules after all, I can have a much more enjoyable time shooting at home :-)
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