Why 1:11 twist in .308 Tikka and Sakos

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Why 1:11 twist in .308 Tikka and Sakos

Post by Arth » 15 Jan 2018, 11:35 am

Hi guys,

I see Tikka/Sako use the 1:11 twist for most (all?) of their varmint/long range/target rifles chambered in .308, but other brands seem to more often use 1:10 which will be for stabilizing longer projectiles.

Why have Tikka/Sako decided on 1:11 for theirs I wonder?
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Re: Why 1:11 twist in .308 Tikka and Sakos

Post by TheDude » 15 Jan 2018, 12:44 pm

The 1:12 will stabilize 175-180gr ok so the 1:11 would be fine as well. Only benefit with 1:10 is shooting 210gr which aren’t as common in the 308.

Remington seem to offer 1:10, 1:11.25 and 1:12. My 5R is 1:11.25
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Re: Why 1:11 twist in .308 Tikka and Sakos

Post by southeast varmiter » 15 Jan 2018, 1:30 pm

The 1:10 twist has become only common because of all copper bullets. To achieve the same weight a copper bullet needs to be much longer, hence the higher twist rate.
Else 1:12 is preferable as it doesn’t cost you Velocity. A 1:10 barrel will shed up to additional 100 FPS off your MV.
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Re: Why 1:11 twist in .308 Tikka and Sakos

Post by Gregg » 17 Jan 2018, 1:54 pm

I've gotta say, I reckon twist is an over-emphasized and over-prioritized spec these days.

We all know the purpose of a faster twist; to stabilize longer bullets. That's fine. If you're not shooting those longer bullets though it doesn't add anything, and can potentially be a negative factor.

The conversation has gone from:

You need a faster twist if...

to

You should get a faster twist so...

It's putting the horse before the cart. Don't buy a fast twist barrel and load long rounds to justify buying it, figure out what type of shooting you're going to do and what ammunition will suit that purpose and buy an appropriate rifle.

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Last edited by Gregg on 23 Jan 2018, 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why 1:11 twist in .308 Tikka and Sakos

Post by bladeracer » 17 Jan 2018, 3:46 pm

Gregg,

You may not have any interest in shooting the long bullets now, but why limit your future options if there's no downside to a tighter twist rate?

There was a guy on FB the other day bought himself a .22-250 to shoot coyotes out to 700yds with a 14"-twist barrel. I'm sure it's doable but it would've been so much more effective if he'd researched twist-rates before spending his money.

Sierra has a 90gn .224" bullet that requires a 6.5"-twist rate. Whether that's too tight to run 30gn bullets as well I don't know.
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Re: Why 1:11 twist in .308 Tikka and Sakos

Post by Gregg » 23 Jan 2018, 3:39 pm

bladeracer wrote:You may not have any interest in shooting the long bullets now, but why limit your future options if there's no downside to a tighter twist rate?


I more or less said this at the end of my post, mate..... "figure out what type of shooting you're going to do and what ammunition will suit that purpose and buy an appropriate rifle"

If you think you may want to get into longer range shooting and require heavier pills, then consider a faster twist. I agree, that makes perfect sense.

There is in fact a potential downside to faster twist (updated my post to touch on that). A faster twist is not better than a slower one, it's intended for a different function.

The faster you spin a bullet the more you amplify its inconsistencies, the increase in centrifugal forces will pull the bullet further off it's axis and hurt accuracy.

If you're really trying to squeeze out every last bit of accuracy what you actually want is the slowest possible twist to stabilize your selected bullet.

Palma is a prime example of this. For 155gr grain loads you'll find almost universally people are shooting 1:14 twist barrels. You'll be hard pressed to find a soul shooting anything faster with these loads as it hurts accuracy for the reason explained above.

It's not until people are shooting 180gr, 190gr, 200gr, 210gr projectiles that they'll move to 1:13, 1:12 and 1:10 twist barrels because they have to.

The slowest twist is recommended by many manufacturers for their match ammo.

Do some Googling on twist for Palma specifically and you'll find plenty more on this.

bladeracer wrote:There was a guy on FB the other day bought himself a .22-250 to shoot coyotes out to 700yds with a 14"-twist barrel. I'm sure it's doable but it would've been so much more effective if he'd researched twist-rates before spending his money.


Again this is basically what I said...

1:14 twist in a 22-250 is for achieving maximum velocity with light bullets. Not extended ranges.

If his plan was to shoot 700 yards he would have been better off with either a 1:12 twist and trying 65gr loads, or a 1:9 to shoot 75gr

"figure out what type of shooting you're going to do and what ammunition will suit that purpose and buy an appropriate rifle"

He bought the wrong rifle.

bladeracer wrote:Sierra has a 90gn .224" bullet that requires a 6.5"-twist rate.


Not sure what the point of this mention is? In any case, when a manufacture tell us a 1:6.5 (or whatever) twist is required for a certain projectile, that's exactly what they're telling us.

They're not saying its better, they're not saying it's more practical, and they're not saying it's more versatile. They are saying this is the twist required or this projectile. There is no implication or assertion that a faster twist is better and anyone interpreting twist requirements in this way is doing so in error.

I'm not panning fast twist rifles and I'm not knocking anyone who has one. I'm saying it's horses for courses, that you should understand what different twists rates are for and pick the right one for your job.

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Re: Why 1:11 twist in .308 Tikka and Sakos

Post by sungazer » 23 Jan 2018, 3:56 pm

Hmm interesting. Not my favorite person but Bryan Litz has said that the Berger Hybrids generally (I am talking 155s) need or benefit from a faster than traditional used.

The recommended twist for them is 1:11. I am using a 1:10 it may be hurting my accuracy or it may be me. There's not a lot in it though. I don't have enough money to get 4 barrels all at once chambered the same and test which one is the most accurate.

I was probably a bit silly getting the 1:10 as I don't think I will shoot F/TR in this barrels lifetime. Still shooting F standard. I wanted to have a dabble with the 185s and 200s but not compete there yet.

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Re: Why 1:11 twist in .308 Tikka and Sakos

Post by Gregg » 24 Jan 2018, 3:11 pm

sungazer wrote:I was probably a bit silly getting the 1:10 as I don't think I will shoot F/TR in this barrels lifetime. Still shooting F standard. I wanted to have a dabble with the 185s and 200s but not compete there yet.


Have a dabble mate. The perfect combo might be waiting for you there :thumbsup:
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Re: Why 1:11 twist in .308 Tikka and Sakos

Post by MalleeFarmer » 24 Jan 2018, 8:33 pm

I'm with gregg on this one. you really want the slowest twist you can have that will still stabilise the heaviest bullet you're likely to use. I have a .308 target rifle with a 1-10 and i hope to go up to some heavier perhaps 200gr match bullets just for a play in that. and a Hunting rifle in 1-12 that just gets fed 165sst's and 135hps. I also have a 6mm that i had built specifically to run 105-107gr match bullets with the ability to go down to 87gr V-Max so i had a 1-8 twist barrel chambered and installed on it. any faster would be more bad than good on the 87gr and be more than i need for the 105/7 gr stuff as well. horses for course.. also the 1-6.5 twist in a .22-250 wow that is fast. :shock: that in my mind would be a very specialised rifle and seems as though it would not be at all versatile but may well be perfect for its intended purpose.
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Re: Why 1:11 twist in .308 Tikka and Sakos

Post by VICHunter » 25 Jan 2018, 12:18 pm

Handy tool here on working out what twist is required on any bullet for those show are interested.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
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Re: Why 1:11 twist in .308 Tikka and Sakos

Post by Gwion » 31 Jan 2018, 9:41 am

Yep. I'm in the 'only get the twist ratio you need' camp.
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Re: Why 1:11 twist in .308 Tikka and Sakos

Post by sungazer » 31 Jan 2018, 10:25 am

I tend to gravitate to one of the heavier projectiles in any calibre. Not the heaviest as that is often just a bit too much but up there as it is often the best BC bullet / velocity combo.
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