Offhand Shooting

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Offhand Shooting

Post by PaddyT » 26 May 2018, 8:31 am

Morning All, as stated before im really just starting to get back into shooting and am basically happy with how its going- certainly if i dont get to shoot for more than a couple of weeks I get withdrawal in a big way. Since the weather has cooled down ive been popping into St Marys just about every Friday afternoon for 2-3 hours with mainly my 22 and occasionally with my 223. I really happy with both rifles and am now getting very confident off the bench or prone out to 100m with the 223 and to 50 with the 22 (havent shot the 22 out in the field or at Silverdale yet). The last few weeks ive started shooting a few rounds offhand with the 22 and last night i fired 2 boxes of 22 at 25 M offhand. My final group of 25 shots I managed 20/25 in the white circle of the target and out of 100 shots only missed the entire target (5 inch round target) with 6 shots so im seeing some improvment- Last night i didnt use the sling to assist at all so im guessing out in the field i can gain some improvement their too. Anyway am I on the right track? I want to start pushing out to 50 M offhand in the next couple of visits . Ive done a bit of Youtube research but any hints would be appreciated.Thanks again
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by bladeracer » 26 May 2018, 9:04 am

I don't know about tips exactly, but I've fired over 10,000rds offhand so far this year. a crisp trigger break with plenty of feel makes a big difference. Because your sight picture is continually floating across your target, you need to be able release the shot in the exact nanosecond.

For iron sights, I've found consistent cheek weld is huge also. I lock my face to the rifle so the sight picture can't change, much like trap shooting, then I can just focus on the front sight and send it as the post crosses where I want to place the bullet.
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by SCJ429 » 26 May 2018, 9:37 am

Practice is the key to standing offhand shots. Even then it is a low percentage shot, if I can shoot three inches at 50 I am happy. You need to position your feet and body so that your natural point of aim is towards your target. If you have to twist to point to the target, reset your feet, front arm has the stock supported on your fingers and elbow on your hip. Matt Emmons has a great article about 3P shooting, on Accurate Shooter. Check his tips for standing position.
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by duncan61 » 26 May 2018, 10:30 am

I have no ability at offhand shooting at all.Put me in a car with a spotlight and rest and I can light a match at 50 metres with my .222.I can hit stuff most of the time with a shotgun either moving or still.I respect you hunters with your shooting skills in the field
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by bladeracer » 26 May 2018, 11:22 am

duncan61 wrote:I have no ability at offhand shooting at all.Put me in a car with a spotlight and rest and I can light a match at 50 metres with my .222.I can hit stuff most of the time with a shotgun either moving or still.I respect you hunters with your shooting skills in the field


I'm no fan of offhand shooting at live targets if it can be avoided. But the fox I took last week was offhand at about 40m. He was moving left to right, head down, trying to sneak away having heard me approaching. I jogged quietly forward to the fence for as clear a shot as possible but had nothing to offer support. I put the crosshair just ahead of his shoulder, but he stopped and looked at me, so I moved to his head. But I wasn't comfortable with the offhand head shot, so moved back to his chest and fired. The bullet went through right behind both shoulders and destroyed both lungs and the heart. He flipped a somersault, but was already dead. This was with the Ruger Compact .22LR with CCI Std Vel. I crossed the fence until I had sight of him in the grass at about 20m, and put another round into the top of his head in case he was playing possum, I didn't want him to jump up and leave me a running shot in that case. He didn't need the coup de gras though - he didn't even bleed a drop.
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I started undressing him when Rose rang to say another had run across the road in front of her, heading for the top dam. I trotted up the hill to head him off but I reckon he probably just patrolled along the road verge looking for rabbits and birds, as he never showed up.

Very likely the only fox I've ever shot offhand, and I doubt I would've been confident in the shot if not for all the practice I've been doing. Just need to nail his three buddies now.
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by duncan61 » 26 May 2018, 2:00 pm

Good work.You know the west.I was culling a blue gum plantation out of Busselton and the roos always went out at a far corner that went in to bushland.One afternoon I went early and had a bit of a sneak around and I saw a flash of orange so I lay down and waited on the bipod.It was a dried out swamp so it was fairly clear and this fox trotted along the far bank then turned and came straight at me following the same game trail I was doing but in the opposite direction.I was fully camo and prone.It stopped 10 feet from me and stared at me so I delivered a .222 50g PSP between its eyes.Ahhhh Memories
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by deanp100 » 26 May 2018, 2:28 pm

If you start hunting pigs in thicker country all your shots are going to be offhand so you better get used to shooting at a running ass end of a pig. Practicing on paper offhand will probably depress you and make your wobbling look worse. Swinging on a running target and pulling the trigger hard, quick and at the right time takes all the wobbles out.
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by PaddyT » 26 May 2018, 5:41 pm

bladeracer wrote:I don't know about tips exactly, but I've fired over 10,000rds offhand so far this year. a crisp trigger break with plenty of feel makes a big difference. Because your sight picture is continually floating across your target, you need to be able release the shot in the exact nanosecond.

For iron sights, I've found consistent cheek weld is huge also. I lock my face to the rifle so the sight picture can't change, much like trap shooting, then I can just focus on the front sight and send it as the post crosses where I want to place the bullet.

Good work on the red dog- bloody hell 10,000 rounds offhand this year- I need to shoot more, really want to improve this aspect of my shooting so I will up the anti to 200 rounds every Friday- that will get me to 10000 per annum! My 22 is an LA 101 so its fairly heavy but ive worked out a fairly balanced position off hand- question though do you lift above the target and shoot on the way down?And one more - i actually found shooting with both eyes open pretty comfortable , is this worth pushing a bit more for close in offhand shooting?
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by duncan61 » 26 May 2018, 8:11 pm

If you can point with both eyes open well done.Find your master eye and stay focused with the other.I have a mate who shoots a 6.5 x 55 Ackley and he looks for the next game with the other eye as he drops his primary,Its amazing to watch.I am just a mug Kangaroo dude who likes them at 60 metres or less.I have seen this man drop a shag that was giving the yabbies a hard time at 320 metres.All I seen was a puff of feathers some where over there.
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by in2anity » 26 May 2018, 10:36 pm

Work on your stance; tuck your elbow down onto your hip, imagine a straight line bone-on-bone going straight down from your balancing thumb and index finger l to the ground. Master this and you should be getting mostly horizontal error - then you can work on letting the muzzle fall down onto the target pulling the trigger at just the right moment. Think about your cheek weld and breathing, and don’t hold the rifle for too long else you start to shake - it’s very important to take the weight off your arms between shots. That’s what that little pole thing is Olympic shooting - a little platform to give their arms a rest. Oh and get that lumley kit for your Lithgow - a light trigger helps immensely. Oh and your follow through is also important - often you should see your (22lr) round fly through the air, then you know your follow through is good. Offhand is very different to supported smallbore/fullbore that’s all about breath control and natural point of aim.
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by Stix » 26 May 2018, 10:43 pm

duncan61 wrote:I have no ability at offhand shooting at all.Put me in a car with a spotlight and rest and I can light a match at 50 metres with my .222.I can hit stuff most of the time with a shotgun either moving or still.I respect you hunters with your shooting skills in the field


Im with you on the car & spotlight thing duncan...in fact i go further if i can & if its fox city night i like to quickly jump out & throw the bag over the bonnet just to make sure i guide that ballistic tip right into the centre axis of the crank shaft.
I like to do the same with bunnies too...drive around late arvo pulling up every here n there to scan the distant terrain for spring legged bush chickens.
At a cupla hundred yards they're not so skittish so often even get time to reposition the car for the perfect shot over the bonnet. :drinks:
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by Member-Deleted » 27 May 2018, 12:03 am

Yeah I couldn't hit a bull in the ass with a hand full of rice off hand
I mostly shoot off a rest away from the car or from the window with my right elbow wedged between the car pillar and the head rest
and wind the window up or down for elevation ,shot dogs out to 350yds often like that and it works for me
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by Stix » 27 May 2018, 1:03 am

My version...for general off hand field shooting.
Get to know, feel & recognise your first instinct.
Your first instinct with the sight picture is most often your best shot...
If you hesitate to release the shot beyond your first instinct, your chances of a worse shot are significantly increased.

Whilst there is a time & place for using a sling, i wouldnt bother doing too much practice with it....i say this because if you & i are walking through lightly wooded scrub & come face to face with a fox at 25 yds, ive already fired my first shot & ejected the case, & the fox is either dead or on the run, all while you are tensioning your arm in the sling & your mind is in a twist somewhere inbetween your sling & instinct ....sling shooting is a skill to have, but leave it alone untill you've nailed general off hand shooting.

If you want to be ready to shoot in the field, there is not much time for setting your elbow on your hip & imagining you are one with the force luke ying yang shooting sharkra hoo haa, or worrying about hold above then slowly lowering the cross hairs over the target & executing a gentle trigger release...again its all nice skills to have, but the reality is neither me nor that fox will wait for you to get comfy.

If you have a high recoiling rifle, using the 'lower the reticle over the target & release at the right time' technique can cause missed high shots due to high recoil off of stiff tension in your shoulder & a forearm hold that could choke a gorilla, especially if a target presents itself when you least expect it & you're suffering a bad dose of buck fever.

Know your trigger intimately & practice having tension on it as soon as you've shouldered the gun.
Despite popular belief, a jerk of the trigger is a technique--you want to know & dictate the moment the shot goes, & you cant do that with a gentle squeeze.

Practice releasing the shot as soon as you can--bugger all this hovering rubbish--shoot within 3 seconds max or put the rifle down & walk away.

What ever you do, dont get sucked into all this 'you need to use this technique' stuff.
Shooting is a skill best served by relying on your senses--dont over think it--if you're thinking of whether your feet are a comfortable distance apart you'll miss the fox, & you're in the wrong class--tango dance classes are back in town down the hall.on the left...

Learn to recognise your first instinct in your sight picture & feel that trigger like a part of your nervous system.
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by bigpete » 27 May 2018, 9:51 am

Just practice
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by bladeracer » 27 May 2018, 9:52 am

Stix wrote:Practice releasing the shot as soon as you can--bugger all this hovering rubbish--shoot within 3 seconds max or put the rifle down & walk away.


Yep, I have to agree with this. Often I get a very nice shot right away, and if I decide to wait for something better, it rarely comes back as good. Better to lower the rifle and start again. The only time I would suggest holding longer for a shot is in gusty wind. You may need to weigh a great sight picture against wind gusts. Go with a perfect sight picture and hope the wind doesn't mess it up, or go with the best sight picture you can get as soon as the wind settles. I've been practicing with the .22LR on silhouettes in crosswinds where the shots are falling seven-inches to the left at 100m. If the wind is steady it doesn't really affect the group size, you just hold to the right. But when it's gusty it's a nightmare, especially trying to hold yourself steady against the wind.
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by bladeracer » 27 May 2018, 10:25 am

bigpete wrote:Just practice


This is the number one point I think, get a case of ammo and spend day after day standing in a paddock meditating :-)
I was doing very well until it was discovered I have a large bag of gallstones slowing me down!
Hopefully once I get that sorted I can get back to my hundred-rounds-per-day challenge.
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by RoginaJack » 27 May 2018, 10:25 am

Carry a shooting stick - bipod rest or a Hiking stick does the job. 8-)
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by Stix » 27 May 2018, 11:12 am

bigpete wrote:Just practice


Wise advice...but no point practising in a way that builds bad habbits & lowers confidence.

Hovering essentially forces the rifle & fatigues you very rapidly...it also builds a lack of confidence because if you hang longer for a better shot, fatigue & a desperate trigger jerk usually dictate a worse outcome....
Translate that to the field with buck fever it equates to shots in haste & hope.

Unless the OP is using a flintlock stuffed with black dust where he has to factor in time for a snooze :lol: :sarcasm: he wants to avoid hovering--at least with initial practice.
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by bigpete » 27 May 2018, 11:46 am

Just practice
How else do you work out what makes for a good shot ?
By putting bullets down range,that's how.
Get your 22 out,and shoot cans and s**t. Or an air rifle coz its cheaper. Don't try to shoot groups as such,you'll only get disappointed.
I once read,shooting off a rest is a test of the rifle,shooting offhand is a test of the man.
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by PaddyT » 27 May 2018, 12:48 pm

Cheers fellas, ill just keep shooting rounds- thanks for the tips
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by Bent Arrow » 27 May 2018, 12:50 pm

bigpete wrote:Just practice
How else do you work out what makes for a good shot ?
By putting bullets down range,that's how.
Get your 22 out,and shoot cans and s**t. Or an air rifle coz its cheaper. Don't try to shoot groups as such,you'll only get disappointed.
I once read,shooting off a rest is a test of the rifle,shooting offhand is a test of the man.


This....... Shooting cans and reactive targets is much better for confidence than shooting groups on paper. Heaps more fun too.
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by PaddyT » 27 May 2018, 1:48 pm

Get that but my access to property is sporadic and I can get to St MArys range each week- i guess any practice is better than none
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by sungazer » 27 May 2018, 3:41 pm

Absolutely Bigpetes note is true to a point. However you can still lean a lot shooting on a bench or on the ground. Learn your follow through, learn your trigger pull. A lot of the old guys used to dry fire every night 500 at least placing a coin on the top end of the barrel and firing without it falling off. Then free standing is all about practice too and a lot of the advice given here is gold re position and shooting quickly once the target is acquired.
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by Elliott G » 09 Jun 2018, 7:35 pm

Go to a silhouette shoot if you want to learn offhand, learn stance from the best shooters there, should be left hip on left elbow, but relaxed as possible. When you're aiming look at the target, not the crosshair. If you look at the crosshair you'll instinctively try to hit the crosshair.
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by in2anity » 10 Jun 2018, 5:58 pm

Elliott G wrote:Go to a silhouette shoot if you want to learn offhand, learn stance from the best shooters there, should be left hip on left elbow, but relaxed as possible. When you're aiming look at the target, not the crosshair. If you look at the crosshair you'll instinctively try to hit the crosshair.


Yup, as I said in my post on the first page. This is the foundation of silhouette shooting and literally what they teach in the marines (for standing unsupported). But apparently proper technique is poo-pooed around these parts...
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by Wm.Traynor » 11 Jun 2018, 9:52 am

"When you're aiming look at the target"
That's interesting. I don't shoot like any of you but I'm gunna try that :)
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by Bigjobss » 11 Jun 2018, 11:30 am

Like most questions in life this one can be answered by searching Youtube - plenty of instructional videos by competent professionals.
Then its just a matter of practicing thousands of times. As a teenager I shot hundreds of cans every other weekend and my old man wouldn't let me use a rest, or even a scope until I was around 15.
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by sungazer » 11 Jun 2018, 12:04 pm

in2ainty I certainly wouldnt poo poo good technique quite the opposite. For my frame and I am not talking fat there is no way I could get my elbow to touch my hip if I was to do that the gun would be pointed towards the ground. You have my intrest peaked however and will do some research to see if I can improve my hold.
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by in2anity » 11 Jun 2018, 12:30 pm

This guys sums it up pretty nice https://youtu.be/aAmOqNe3QAA practice doesn’t make perfect, practice makes permanent
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Re: Offhand Shooting

Post by marksman » 11 Jun 2018, 12:38 pm

good vid thanks for sharing :drinks:
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