Which 303?

[Bent Arrow]

Hi

I've decided that one of my next purchases will have to be a 303. So my question is which one......

One of my great grandfather's enlisted on the 1st August 1914 into D company 10th battalion, and was amongst the first on the beach at Gallipoli. He was shot through the thigh on the 30th and evacuated and then went back after some time in hospital. He was transferred to the 50th in Feb 1916 when the battalion was split to form new battalions, and saw action in France in 1917 before being discharged after a series of serious illnesses.

So, what rifle model would he have been issued with, as that would have to be at the top of my list.

Alternatively, from his personal equipment card, I know that the serial number of the rifle that one of my grandfather's was issued with in 1944 was 71140..... No idea what model though.....

Cheers

[bladeracer]

Hi

I've decided that one of my next purchases will have to be a 303. So my question is which one......

One of my great grandfather's enlisted on the 1st August 1914 into D company 10th battalion, and was amongst the first on the beach at Gallipoli. He was shot through the thigh on the 30th and evacuated and then went back after some time in hospital. He was transferred to the 50th in Feb 1916 when the battalion was split to form new battalions, and saw action in France in 1917 before being discharged after a series of serious illnesses.

So, what rifle model would he have been issued with, as that would have to be at the top of my list.

Alternatively, from his personal equipment card, I know that the serial number of the rifle that one of my grandfather's was issued with in 1944 was 71140..... No idea what model though.....

Cheers

A No.1 MkIII is my guess.

[Supaduke]

The no.1 mk 3 entered service in 1907.
The no.1 mk3* entered service in late 1915.

Guns were precious commodities during the great war.

He could have had either. Soldiers generally did not keep the same rifle for the entire length of their service. They were handed out as required and given to frontline soldiers as required. In the calamity of battle they would often grab whatever rifle was handy.

It was unlikely but possible he even used a P14 for a time.

First World war era .303's , especially with volley sights or magazine cut offs, command a premium over SMLE's from other eras.

The Lee-Enfield has a complex history with many changes. Magazine cut offs for example were removed and replaced on multiple occasions for various reasons.

He may or may not have had a Lithgow. Records pretty.much don't exist in regards to what soldier used what rifle, there is really no way to know.

A no.1 mk3 or mk3* from the WW1 era would be a good representation of what he may have carried.

[Member-Deleted]

Sorry to jump in bent Arrow but while we're on 303's I have a question about mine that I was given now mine has LITHGOW SHTLE 111
1919 Does that make it date of issue as 1919 and would the firing pin outside have a round grip rather than the square one like the later ones
I will take a picky and post it soon

[Supaduke]

If you are referring to the cocking piece at the rear of the action. The square one was introduced with the no.1 mk 3*.

However, earlier model rifles went through various stages of upgrading.

I should say, SOME, rifles. The upgrading scheme was complex and a bit haphazard.

As I type this I keep expecting no.1 to chime in at any moment and say "well actually.....".

I don't have many books, I do most of my research online as well as researching the guns I actually own and wandering around gun shows observing markings etc.

I also ask people with lots more knowledge than me, like no.1

I also try to contribute to milsurps.com
It's an excellent forum with some extremely knowledgeable gun nerds.

I highly recommend joining that forum if you take a more in depth interest in milsurps. Teeming with great info and very good with answering more in depth questions.

[Member-Deleted]

Right O mate i'll try that I don't know what got into me I've had a 303 for years and numbers meant nothing to me but since oldmate that gave me the 303 said it was
his fathers I just can't stop wondering where it has been and who with the bolt does not have matching numbers as the barrel but anyway i'll keep looking
If only it could talk

Cheers

[Supaduke]

I can say that mismatched bolts often mean it has been to European skirmishes and used by places like the Baltic states.

Or farmer Joe lost the bolt and bought a new one.

SHt.LE markings would indicate it's a British manafactured rifle.

A build date of 1919 means it could certainly be a mk3*. So a square cocking piece would be right.

A few pics would be helpful.

Does the action have a solid charger bridge ?

I find learning the history and stories of these old guns rewarding and interesting.

[bladeracer]

I find learning the history and stories of these old guns rewarding and interesting.

I find it confusing and frustrating
There was a ".303" in Rose's family but it seems to have disappeared "in the nineties", so I'm afraid it most likely got destroyed in the buyback. Would be awesome to track it down and get it back but I have zero information about it. Rose's dad had a semi-auto shotgun that he lost in the buyback as well.

[No1Mk3]

G'day Bent Arrow, Supaduke has pretty much summed up the situation for rifle issue. About all I can add is that due to the majority of Lithgow production being sent to England at the start of the war, and only 10 000 rifles being kept here, your Great Grandfather would most likely have taken ship with a CLLE Mk1 or Mk1* and Pattern 1887 bayonet. These rifles were exchanged in Egypt for English made No1 MkIII and Pattern 1907 bayonets. If he was one of those issued with an SMLE from the start it would be a MkIII. As he was wounded and evacuated, his rifle would have stayed behind and he would have been issued a new one upon return to service, which could very likely have been a Lithgow No1MkIII*, as production was back into full swing by late 1915.So as Supaduke says, any nice WW1 rifle would suit your purpose. As for your Grandfathers rifle, is there a letter prefix to that number? If not, then it is a WW1 era rifle, which would have gone through FTR and reissued for WW2. By coincedence #71142 is listed as a high mount sniper! Cheers.

[Member-Deleted]

Here is some pics of the bolt Supaduke
FTR is stamped on the front-right of the action so this probably explains the bolt numbers being different to the barrel
I'll have to get a better camera to get the markings on the rifle

Cheers

[Supaduke]

You have yourself there a no.1 mk 3*.
Squared cocking piece
Fixed charger bridge
Magazine cut off and volley sights deleted.
1919 was when the action was manafactured.
The stock could be a year or two older. Not uncommon for rifles to be assembled a year or two (there are examples 12 years apart) after the action was built. Quite normal.

The Lithgow shield marking on the receiver collar was used up till 1926.

[Member-Deleted]

Thanks Supaduke looks like it has been rebuilt at some stage
The plot thickens I might start cleaning it up I've only had it a couple of weeks after cleaning I should be able to get more info
from it thanks again

CHEERS

[sarki]

As long as it goes PING! after the last shot I'm happy