lets talk levers- uberti 44 mag 1873?

[in2anity]

is it the elusive 1894? name your price if it is . And I'm serious, if you ever need quick dollars during the economic downturn you have a customer here

Hehe the very one. I'll take that one to the grave though mickb There were only a handful of them ever made. For a straight-wall, lead slinger, it's stupidly accurate. On a calm day, it's cabable of holding sub 2moa groups over looong strings, and that’s with knock-about lead handloads. .

Here it is in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgFWgdY8tYM I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iirUBX21E9Q I was figuring out my dope to 200m.

I might stick a .327 Federal reamer up it one day - not shooting silhoutte anymore.

[Blr243]

I was actually really set on sub hunting as if my mind was made up , and I had people telling me it would not work but I was determined...bought the bush master to improve the situation ...I searched projectiles from the states u name it I tried it. Prior to sub hunting I was useing 223 and 243 and 99 per cent of pigs just stopped. But when I tried sub hunting I was running around looking for 50 per cent of them. I’m embarrassed to admit this but it’s the truth and that’s what happened.....now that I have returned to full power loads 99 per cent of my pigs just fall again .....despite the advice against it maybe I just needed to see it for myself in the field

[mickb]

its good to hear both sides, I am in similar situation looking into it. Mate did you ever consider a compromise. Probably too late now as you are ovhously back into your 243 etc, but something like a 357 loaded down a fair way. 5-6 gr loads of bullseye, CFE pistol , APS450 etc for 1300-1400fps with 125 to 135 jacketed bullets. Or even pusing your bushmaster to 1200-1300fps so its closer to 44 magnum handgun power. Less blast than full house rifle loads with the small powder charges in the long barrel- but not sure if it would be quiet enough to be worth it? I am not sure in fact how loud those loads would be, maybe they are still damned noisy.

[bladeracer]

its good to hear both sides, I am in similar situation looking into it. Mate did you ever consider a compromise. Probably too late now as you are ovhously back into your 243 etc, but something like a 357 loaded down a fair way. 5-6 gr loads of bullseye, CFE pistol , APS450 etc for 1300-1400fps with 125 to 135 jacketed bullets. Or even pusing your bushmaster to 1200-1300fps so its closer to 44 magnum handgun power. Less blast than full house rifle loads with the small powder charges in the long barrel- but not sure if it would be quiet enough to be worth it? I am not sure in fact how loud those loads would be, maybe they are still damned noisy.

Still pretty quiet. I tell people they really don't need to go all the way to subsonic if it's just less noise they want. The lighter the bullet the faster you can push it without getting loud. 2400fps in my .204 is fine on my ears, 2000fps in the .243, 1700fps in the .30-06, etc. If you want subsonic then use a heavy bullet to make up for lack of velocity, if you just want quiet try a lighter bullet in the low supersonic range.

[Blr243]

Mick I never really thought about going sort of half way .....I’m a construction worker , a guitar player and a shooter so unfortunately my ears are already a bit damaged. I don’t feel any discomfort shooting in the field ...and it was all about my dog but now I have worked out a way to leave him in the quad bike cage while I go hunting on foot ( as u can imagine he not very happy about this ) .....I know I should be more responsible with my hearing because it will come back to bite me later in life I have done a bit of loading for the bushmaster lately but it’s full power loads and fast in an attempt to get a reasonable trajectory....years ago .I did hunt pigs close range with an unscoped 357 mag lever action with full loads it was a ton of fun stalking close in the melon hole country amounts the lime bushes

[mickb]

Just be careful with your ears mate. I was careless as well, including army service. Had only moderate hearing loss and very slight tinnitus after 20 years of abuse. Figured I would be a little hard of hearing as I got older but who cares about that. Then one day I woke up to find my tinnitus had added about 10 different noises. Must have lost just one decibel or bent one hearing hair cell too many. I went from a non earplug guy to someone who wears them now even to hammer nails in.

[bladeracer]

Just be careful with your ears mate. I was careless as well, including army service. Had only moderate hearing loss and very slight tinnitus after 20 years of abuse. Figured I would be a little hard of hearing as I got older but who cares about that. Then one day I woke up to find my tinnitus had added about 10 different noises. Must have lost just one decibel or bent one hearing hair cell too many. I went from a non earplug guy to someone who wears them now even to hammer nails in.

My tinnitus mainly sounds like cicadas, all the time, annoying but generally tolerable. But when it's very quiet, like trying to sleep, it sounds like people having a conversation in the next room, much more annoying.

[Blr243]

Thanks for the warning regarding those ears. A detailed explanation of the symptoms always carries so much more weight than just a “ you should wear ear muffs”

[mickb]

Its just the nature of ears. Very delicate and so are the connections to the brain to percieve what we know as sound. The whole mechanism was evolved around handling noises in nature, the loudest of which are probably thunderstorms, screaming babies and animals roariing. Guns, big machines, extreme music levels are beyond their design.

[Blr243]

Quite deep thinking there mick. You are correct , before man embarked on his assault of the environment , there was only the sound of running water, magpies , lonely dingoes howling , red stags roaring....now we have braked 308s, industrial jack hammers, low flying fighter jets, and AC/DC ........i think us hunters genuinely appreciate nature and are more in touch with how life was many centuries ago.....if ever I am discussing economics, or job opportunities or financial government assistance, I sometimes remind people that when a lion wakes up in the morning he must hunt if he wishes to eat , and that he will die if he just sits there on his arse ....we are really just the same

[Blr243]

Somewhere in another topic somebody mentioned 500 grainers and 2207 in a 4570. So I crunched the numbers as far as energy goes and it’s similar in performance to a 223 so maybe broadside on 90 per cent of pigs this should be fine. I shot oodles of pigs with a 223 prior to 96 laws If I ever venture down the path Of subsonic hunting again this is where I kick off. So darn looks like I need a couple of grand to get myself a 4570. There’s quite a few different types

[boingk]

If you're looking at lever rifles definitely look at the Marlin 1895GBL - 6 round mag tube instead of the standard 4, big loop lever and a nice laminate stock so won't warp. I'm loving mine. Top it with a Leupold 336 rail and you're in business. I got mine for well under $1500 new.

Try a Black Widow coated lead 400gn with 13gn of Trailboss, its about 1000fps and 900ftlb muzzle energy, a bit lower than 223 but a stack of energy all the same.

Where it gets interesting is when you load that same pill with 46gn of 2207 and you're looking more like 1850fps and 3000ftlb. And that's the starting load according to ADI. Good God...

[Blr243]

Boingk....I often hear about older 4570 where only certain loads are safe but is yours as strong as it can be ? I don’t want to be limited by an older weaker action in case I decide to load it up. I like the mag cap u mention and the fact that I can scope it and the price is good too. I’ll stay in touch with you , it’s great to know somebody with loading experience in a cal I’m not familiar with. I have a fair bit of trail boss in stock ...on the negative side I. A bit disappointed in myself for wanting to lash out more bucks on another rifle so soon after acquiring my new rem pump but such is this disease we are born with

[boingk]

Boingk....I often hear about older 4570 where only certain loads are safe but is yours as strong as it can be ?

Happy to chat about it mate. PM me if you want, although I think In2anity is the go-to guy.

There's three levels of loads. Remember, this is a cartridge introduced in 1873 for the Springfield Trapdoor rifle - America's first metallic-cartridge military rifle. Those early rifles are good for about 28,000PSI on a good day, or the original load of 405gn at 1400fps or so.

The Marlin 1895 is good for 40,000PSI. And those loads are a mule. You probably won't want to fire the thing at those levels - thats about 3500ftlb. More than I'm happy using or feeling the recoil of.

The last level is Ruger No1 single shot or Simese Mauser. They are good for 50,000PSI, or about another 100fps from the same 400gn projectile.

There is plenty of documentation that the Marlin 11895 is good for 45,000PSI but I have no desire to test that. By the same token, there are plenty of pictures to attest to the fact that people have shown disregard for that limit.

Cheers - boingk

[mickb]

1895 is a strong safe action. Just another note and not to dampen enthusiam on the 45-70 BLR, if you were taking another look at doing subsonics on pigs, etc it wont add any advantages on what you have tried. Except being louder, because its requiring 13 grains to get to the same velocity 44 or 45 colt only takes 5-6 to do. Also you get the advantage of pistol bullets in the handgun calibres which are designed to expand sub 1000fps.

But including its general shooting, boink is right, its a great round.