reasons for a 358 win

[mickb]

Hi fellas, most of my hunting is with a 357 levergun which in the foresty tropics covers a surprising breadth of game. Im looking to get a high powered rifle again to use on some pigs further out, also horses, donkeys etc which do push the limit on the 357, also maybe a scrub bull if I get lucky(pretty scrawny buggars around here), I know there are a couple of 358 owners on board so thanks for any thoughts on my reasoning.

want something with a bit of bang to it, 200 grain spitzers I figure might get me to 250-300 yards( maybe 250's just for heavy game).
Some compatbility with my 357 in that the heavier pistol proj -158 and 180xtp could be pressed into some sort of use in a 358( anyone used them in a 358?).
Its not overly popular but I reload and 308 brass should be around a while.
Is it a real step up in power over 308 or just in the hunters mind?
I can get a $600 howa 308 donor gun and rebarrel with Swann for $670 so into the gun for only $1300 or so. I dont need match grade and am a cheap SOB- will an ugly hogue stock howa do the job?
Was also considering 35 whelen- I prefer the smaller 308 case but have it in my mind for some reason that 35 whelen is more popular. Wondering if factory ammo availability is worth considering in the whelens favour?
I am a 2-3 gun only person( and one is a rimfire). I dont accumulate guns and shop for them like indians shop white goods( lots of back and forth ) Does my 357lever/358 bolt combo idea have some merit?

[Bill]

I read your questions mickb and cant help but think of all the hunts my BLR 358's have enjoyed, from foxes thru to scrub bulls they did the job. Havent used my takedown 358 for a few years now and is it a steep up from a 308, of course it is esp with 200gr at 2700fps

[mickb]

Thanks Bill and please name your price for that 358 takedown BLR Wow, I didnt know they ever came into Australia, I reckon I'd buy one in a heartbeat just for the coolness factor.

[GQshayne]

Thanks Bill and please name your price for that 358 takedown BLR Wow, I didnt know they ever came into Australia, I reckon I'd buy one in a heartbeat just for the coolness factor.

Early model pre 1981 BLR's were chambered for 358. The very first models were 243 and 308 only, but that was only for about 3 years, then the 358 was available, from memory.

[Bill]

Yeap BLR 358 Lightning, great bit of kit mickb, I started to get paranoid about losing the magazine for mine so I moved it on and grabbed one of the last takedown down 358s when they were last available about 8 years ago. Even got the Browning takedown bag for it

[bigpete]

How do you get 200gn to 2700fps ? That's way over any load data I've ever seen,even some using 2207,and definitely encroaching on 35 whelen territory

I have both 358w and 35 whelen,as well as 308. I love the 35 calibre. It does tend to lay the smack down pretty hard,yet seems not to damage too much meat.

[Blr243]

Your idea sounds logical. Go for it

[Bill]

How do you get 200gn to 2700fps ? That's way over any load data I've ever seen,even some using 2207,and definitely encroaching on 35 whelen territory

I have both 358w and 35 whelen,as well as 308. I love the 35 calibre. It does tend to lay the smack down pretty hard,yet seems not to damage too much meat.

Reloader 10x is your friend bigpete

[Blr243]

I have many friends travelling to Australia by boat but taking so long to get here I doubt when they arrive that they will even remember me

[mickb]

Your idea sounds logical. Go for it

Cheers mate.

[mickb]

How do you get 200gn to 2700fps ? That's way over any load data I've ever seen,even some using 2207,and definitely encroaching on 35 whelen territory

I have both 358w and 35 whelen,as well as 308. I love the 35 calibre. It does tend to lay the smack down pretty hard,yet seems not to damage too much meat.

Reloader 10x is your friend bigpete

I was going to stick with 2207, 2208 etc but might try some reloader 10 as the local gunstore has it in stock.

[bigpete]

I honestly can't find any data showing that sort of speed with 10x. I have found data for 2207 that gets 180gn pills to 2700fps though

[mickb]

Well there is load data for 308 getting 2700 with 180 grain. I dont have any experience with the 358 but ballistically as its a decent jump up in calibre/energy its going to send a 180 even faster I assume.

Strangely most the data I can see for the 358 has it the same energy as top end for the 308 ...which isnt right and musnt be doing the 358 justice..

[bigpete]

Well there is load data for 308 getting 2700 with 180 grain. I dont have any experience with the 358 but ballistically as its a decent jump up in calibre/energy its going to send a 180 even faster I assume.

Strangely most the data I can see for the 358 has it the same energy as top end for the 308 ...which isnt right and musnt be doing the 358 justice..

It transmits energy a lot better

[No1Mk3]

Winchester Model 88 lever gun in 358 Winchester, it was my dream gun when I was young, never got there but a current friend does have one. Magic! As for power, the 358 eats 308, As you posted, 308 with 180 gets 2740 ft/lb, the 358 with 180 gets 2700 fps for 2914 ft/lb, and with the 200 is only 2500 fps for 2776 lb. The 220g pil however gives the same velocity for over 3000 ft/lb, nothing in this country walks away from that. Get the Winchester 88 and go for it!! Cheers. (Get a Model 70 bolt if you have to, but how nice is the old 88)

[Bill]

Ive pushed 250gr Speer Hot core's over 2400fps with Re 10x in a BLR, as always work up safe loads and take note of pressure signs and then back of a grain or 2

[mickb]

Ive pushed 250gr Speer Hot core's over 2400fps with Re 10x in a BLR, as always work up safe loads and take note of pressure signs and then back of a grain or 2

Over 3100ftlbs, impressive mate. The 358 has 30% more cross sectional area and the basic rule of thumb is the energy increase is usually half of that. So going from 308 to 358 max energies should be 15% higher. That translates to about 2750ftlbs for the 308 by comparison which is about right.

[bigrich]

Hi fellas, most of my hunting is with a 357 levergun which in the foresty tropics covers a surprising breadth of game. Im looking to get a high powered rifle again to use on some pigs further out, also horses, donkeys etc which do push the limit on the 357, also maybe a scrub bull if I get lucky(pretty scrawny buggars around here), I know there are a couple of 358 owners on board so thanks for any thoughts on my reasoning.

want something with a bit of bang to it, 200 grain spitzers I figure might get me to 250-300 yards( maybe 250's just for heavy game).
Some compatbility with my 357 in that the heavier pistol proj -158 and 180xtp could be pressed into some sort of use in a 358( anyone used them in a 358?).
Its not overly popular but I reload and 308 brass should be around a while.
Is it a real step up in power over 308 or just in the hunters mind?
I can get a $600 howa 308 donor gun and rebarrel with Swann for $670 so into the gun for only $1300 or so. I dont need match grade and am a cheap SOB- will an ugly hogue stock howa do the job?
Was also considering 35 whelen- I prefer the smaller 308 case but have it in my mind for some reason that 35 whelen is more popular. Wondering if factory ammo availability is worth considering in the whelens favour?
I am a 2-3 gun only person( and one is a rimfire). I dont accumulate guns and shop for them like indians shop white goods( lots of back and forth ) Does my 357lever/358 bolt combo idea have some merit?

Hey mickb, I had a 243 model 70 push feed that I converted to 358 , and it is a great round with great energy transfer. My model 70 was extremely accurate with woodleigh and Sierra 225 gn projectiles with compressed loads of 2208 . Hornady 180 hp xtp pistol rounds were accurate with 2206h . I never used those loads on game, but the 225 Sierra on pigs was awesome. They dropped on the spot without a twitch. I necked up ppu and adi 308 brass and saw no difference in accuracy to starline factory 358 brass. I moved my 358 on as the case is fairly straight walled and at times extraction was sticky on a clean chamber. My loads had no pressure signs, it was a issue with the chamber. Feeding was awesome and reliable with 225’s , but 180’s need to be seated out for reliable feeding. 358 didn’t have the flexibility and reach I wanted, 35 whelen fits my expectations better. I ended up with a 9.3x62 instead. I saw a savage 99 in 358 for sale on usedguns a year ago and it sold in a hour. It’s a rare chambering in most factory rifles, but any 308 based case rifle makes for a easy conversation. If you want a scrub/woods rifle for under 150 meters it’s a great caliber. 35 caliber projectiles are really hard to find at the moment, as are others. My all round gun these days is a t3 7-08 using 150 nosler as a go to load. If you want to go to 358 it’s a easy conversation with good accuracy. PM me and I’ll pass on some loads. Cheers

[Blr243]

Hopefully blackened can lock this topic because if it keeps going I’m going to want a 358 as well despite no room in my safe

[bigrich]

Hopefully blackened can lock this topic because if it keeps going I’m going to want a 358 as well despite no room in my safe

you can always buy another safe mate .......

[mickb]

bigrich, thanks for your comments. So was it a bad chambering job do you think? Who did the work for you? I am hoping its not inherent to the cartridge, it still has more taper and shoulder than big bore rifles. I am still considering the whelen as well. Its more common, both in factory ammo and rifles. Problem is then I start thinking 9.3 x62's too. On another tangent there was actually a 35 rem going nearby in a Rem model 141- these were classy pump actions from the 1930's. Lovely condition... but owner wanted $2400! yikes.

[bigpete]

Just get a whelen. If you're already thinking along those lines anyway.....

[bigrich]

Just get a whelen. If you're already thinking along those lines anyway.....

I second Pete’s post . If smack down is what’s wanted, the whelen has it. Would be as easy a conversion on a 270, 30-06 rifle as the 243 to 358 conversion I did. 9.3x62 does not have as many projectiles suitable for lighter medium game as the 35 caliber. Factory brass is available from Remington in 35 whelen, there are probably other sources too. Necking up 30-06 brass would be easy as well. How I love projects.....

[bigrich]

35 whelen for sale on usedguns . push feed model 70 winny . $1000 . buy it quick mickb, before bigpete wants another whelen

[bigpete]

35 whelen for sale on usedguns . push feed model 70 winny . $1000 . buy it quick mickb, before bigpete wants another whelen

Nah,mines better imo. Controlled feed m98 ftw

[mickb]

Thanks fellas I saw that one , he chopped the barrel, not real keen on less than 24" on high powered guns. The whelen is as easy to convert but donor guns are usuallly a few hundred more since you dont find cheap 270's like cheap 308 howas .I dont need the extra power really, would actually go to a 35 rem if they were easy to do on a boltaction. bonus for the whelen would be better availability for factory ammo, brass and dies.

[bigrich]

Thanks fellas I saw that one , he chopped the barrel, not real keen on less than 24" on high powered guns. The whelen is as easy to convert but donor guns are usuallly a few hundred more since you dont find cheap 270's like cheap 308 howas .I dont need the extra power really, would actually go to a 35 rem if they were easy to do on a boltaction. bonus for the whelen would be better availability for factory ammo, brass and dies.

Here’s another one for ya , the “territorian” 303 necked up to 35 caliber

[bigrich]

35 whelen for sale on usedguns . push feed model 70 winny . $1000 . buy it quick mickb, before bigpete wants another whelen

Nah,mines better imo. Controlled feed m98 ftw

Nothing is better than a model 70 Pete

[bigpete]

35 whelen for sale on usedguns . push feed model 70 winny . $1000 . buy it quick mickb, before bigpete wants another whelen

Nah,mines better imo. Controlled feed m98 ftw

Nothing is better than a model 70 Pete

Uh huh

[Gamerancher]

There's a nice Mauser in .308 Norma Mag on "abused guns" for $850 if I recall correctly, while it's not .358, it will certainly cover your needs...