Leverevolution .357 mag

[in2anity]

It’s was mostly a 30-30 campaign wasn't it? Like sure, it’s also offered in the other pills, but the 30-30 was the flagship product back when it came out. think the BC is up around .33 for the 30-30 version which is kinda noteworthy for the 30-30 which was traditionally below .3

I’ve shot the 30-30 FTX pills, over a full case of LVR powder, out to 500m steel before with an impressive degree of consistency (for what it is). The old flat nose pills don’t fair as well under wind.

[Obie73]

For shorter ranges, up to 100m, maybe if the BC is worse for .357 FTX projectiles it doesn't really matter much. The main thing for me is group size at those shorter ranges which, where I shoot, might be greatly influenced by the wind factor. I won't know until I try them in my model 73. For me, group size is all, not energy or any other factor. It's interesting that for the 30/30 the BC is better but for the .357 and .44 mags it's not. I got really interested in this whole lever action competition shooting when I saw my wife's brother shoot a 3.5" group (or smaller -- we didn't measure it) at 100m with a Henry 30/30 during a comp and that was with the FTX. But my interest is with the .357 mag.

[Obie73]

Quote: "For me, group size is all, not energy or any other factor"

-- which brings me back to a point a made earlier on this forum, that on Youtube nearly all of the .357 mag videos -- which by far are made by Americans -- go on and on only about energy and penetration. They almost never discuss accuracy. I don't understand this at all, as I was brought up by my dad to see accuracy as king. If the Americans want to shoot bigger game and stop it in its tracks, just select a .45/70 LA or a .458 Win bolt action. And there you have it. But they always seem obsessed with getting maximum energy out of small rounds.So boring.

Yes, I know, if I'm interested in accuracy why do I bother with the .357 and just shoot a 243 bolt action or something similar? Apparently my interest in an accurate pistol-round LA rifle is just too niche for most.

[in2anity]

To quote many a fullbore shooter "Accuracy is king, speed is prince. Trust the target". Point being, that everything else comes second to accuracy.

It's said that worldwide, more deer having been taken with 22lr than any other cartridge. Obviously this is never to be condoned, but the reason it happens is because precisely braining a deer at 50m or closer, is well within the realms of possible... and often our 22lrs group well enough to facilitate such a thing.

TLDR: seek out on-target accuracy above all else, via real world testing. The FTX indeed may yield this. In my experience they are a high consistency pill compared with their bretheren.

[mickb]

Yes don't like Rossi rifles myself. Had a 92 model that sort of bulged out the brass a bit at the base of the brass (near the primer). Had to take it back for a refund. The chamfer at the opening of the chamber was obviously cut too wide. Sounds like occasionally you can get a great one though. I've got .357 rifles by Miroku Winchester and Uberti, both 1873 models. Love that model. The cartridge stays parallel with the bore when being lifted up from the magazine. Thus, the chamber is less chamfered at its mouth and the base of the brass more supported by the walls of the chamber.

73's are lovely actions, nothing like seeing the lifter in action. I've had 5 rossi 92's, some needed tweaking/smoothing, all worked out okay. Though I have seen other folks with warranty issues. Of mine 4 out of 5 were able to feed both magnum and the short special rounds( 38sp and 44sp in the respective magnums), one 44mag I could never get 44 specials to feed in though.

[Obie73]

"It's said that worldwide, more deer having been taken with 22lr than any other cartridge"

That doesn't surprise me. Yes not to be condoned but it's understandable, especially years ago when people had to make do with what they had, and eat ....

My dad and my grand dad used to shoot enormous kangaroos east of Grafton on the small farm my grand dad came from (not far from where Russell Crowe now lives). Dad said they were as big as a man. They needed the meat and the skins. They used a tiny, single shot .22 LR that I still have. They would put in the effort to stalk really close to the roos, and get them with a single shot to the head. Down they would drop like a stone, where they stood. My dad was a great shot.

"73's are lovely actions, nothing like seeing the lifter in action."

They sure are. They're just a little longer than 92 actions but I agree that brass lifter thing is a thing of beauty to see it function. I appreciate that many people love their Rossis. Perhaps I will give Rossis another go at some stage.

I'm out to the range again soon.
.

[mickb]

Rossi's are a good working gun I find once smoothed out. 92's are the strongest of pistol cal actionsand Rossi's are arguably strongest of all the 92's. Not recommending it but some of the yank experts push them to 50kpsi. Id run load levels and drag them through places I wouldn't with a 73. Then I also put red dots and torches on mine too which I also wouldn't do to a lovely 73 : D

[Billo]

Rossi's are a good working gun I find once smoothed out. 92's are the strongest of pistol cal actionsand Rossi's are arguably strongest of all the 92's. Not recommending it but some of the yank experts push them to 50kpsi. Id run load levels and drag them through places I wouldn't with a 73. Then I also put red dots and torches on mine too which I also wouldn't do to a lovely 73 : D

Go handle a Chiappa 92, they are a heap nicer than a Rossi, heavier weight barrel at the receiver too, Rossi's are slick thou.

Chiappa trigger is a bit crisper too I reckon and they do a pretty cool takedown version that comes with a Peep sight and picatinny rail for a scout scope

https://youtu.be/tlnykbooiwI?si=pqfUGlIGNGUO2Eji

[mickb]

mate they do look nice but I'll never use chiappa again after the warranty issues I had.Some of the more remote stores up north refuse to to stock them anymore. Leverguns get a lot of work as the go-to pigging gun here and the main choices are rossi and marlin, admittedly probably as much to do with price point and availability.

[Billo]

Mate Marlins Rossi's Chiappa's have all have issues but the only ones I've seen blown up are the Rossi's

I own a Chiappa 92 and there is a hell of a lot more meat in the barrel than a Rossi.

[mickb]

Well the rossi 454 casulls run at 65KPSI mate. They had some mods like magazine screw strengthening but were not enlarged in any way. They did have quality problems at that level but we are almost 50% over normal pressures here. Not sure Id like to run a chiappa that hot just based on barrel thickness......

Actually regards which the barrel on the Rossi 24" octagonals are ghastly thick anyway. They dont have much taper, muzzle heavy and historically incorrect. I sold one to Bladeracer in 357 , a great shooter but a bit too much to swing off the back of a bike or ATV.

[bladeracer]

Well the rossi 454 casulls run at 65KPSI mate. They had some mods like magazine screw strengthening but were not enlarged in any way. They did have quality problems at that level but we are almost 50% over normal pressures here. Not sure Id like to run a chiappa that hot just based on barrel thickness......

Actually regards which the barrel on the Rossi 24" octagonals are ghastly thick anyway. They dont have much taper, muzzle heavy and historically incorrect. I sold one to Bladeracer in 357 , a great shooter but a bit too much to swing off the back of a bike or ATV.

Yep, very nice rifle but the 24" heavy octagonal barrel is definitely front heavy.
I have no need to run .357 hot, I can take the .44Mag instead if I need more thump.

[Billo]

Well the rossi 454 casulls run at 65KPSI mate. They had some mods like magazine screw strengthening but were not enlarged in any way. They did have quality problems at that level but we are almost 50% over normal pressures here. Not sure Id like to run a chiappa that hot just based on barrel thickness......

Actually regards which the barrel on the Rossi 24" octagonals are ghastly thick anyway. They dont have much taper, muzzle heavy and historically incorrect. I sold one to Bladeracer in 357 , a great shooter but a bit too much to swing off the back of a bike or ATV.

Yeap Casull brass is rated to 65K but I wouldn't bet my life on a Rossi Nah Im sure the stainless is stronger than crome moly

Cant figure out why they didnt catch on here in Oz

[mickb]

Yeap Casull brass is rated to 65K but I wouldn't bet my life on a Rossi Nah Im sure the stainless is stronger than crome moly

Cant figure out why they didnt catch on here in Oz

No ones died yet mate. They have had the calibre in it 15+ years including max loads, would be mass recalls if one blew someone to pieces by now. I dont defend rossi quality control and fittings etc havent done so on this thread. Just mentioning why its considered the strongest and that I have had worse experiences with Chiappa unfortunately.

[Billo]

All good mickb, the Rossi's are cheap, been handling all of the new stock recently and the Marlin copies look OK but like the 92's they are let down by cheap looking timber and very average metal to wood fit.

I just recall seeing a Stainless Rossi 92 with a split barrel near the receiver back about 15 yrs ago and I guess that's coloured my opinion.

[bladeracer]

All good mickb, the Rossi's are cheap, been handling all of the new stock recently and the Marlin copies look OK but like the 92's they are let down by cheap looking timber and very average metal to wood fit.

I just recall seeing a Stainless Rossi 92 with a split barrel near the receiver back about 15 yrs ago and I guess that's coloured my opinion.

Surely a split barrel would have to have been a squibbed bullet rather than any weakness in the action? That sort of pressure in the chamber would've tossed the bolt and linkages far from the rifle before it could burst the barrel.

[mickb]

All good mickb, the Rossi's are cheap, been handling all of the new stock recently and the Marlin copies look OK but like the 92's they are let down by cheap looking timber and very average metal to wood fit.

I just recall seeing a Stainless Rossi 92 with a split barrel near the receiver back about 15 yrs ago and I guess that's coloured my opinion.

Fair enough mate, I've owned 5 x Rossi 92's from year 2000 vintage to now and two needed work right off. Mostly minor, sharp load gate, extractor chewing up rims, but one had a bevel in the mag tube somewhere which was making loading difficut and scraping the edge off lead bullets. As mentioned I wont be found on any thread arguing for Brazilian factory quality control. Its a product that works out usually with some tweaking and final polishing , unfortunately sometimes needing returning.

[mickb]

All good mickb, the Rossi's are cheap, been handling all of the new stock recently and the Marlin copies look OK but like the 92's they are let down by cheap looking timber and very average metal to wood fit.

I just recall seeing a Stainless Rossi 92 with a split barrel near the receiver back about 15 yrs ago and I guess that's coloured my opinion.

Surely a split barrel would have to have been a squibbed bullet rather than any weakness in the action? That sort of pressure in the chamber would've tossed the bolt and linkages far from the rifle before it could burst the barrel.

Sounds more like a barrel obstruction or gross barrel defect maybe\, but Im out of my paygrade speculating. I know some of the chambers were off kilter and being the worst defects I heard.

Paco Kelly of lever guns forums, with all due respect to him advance, has been hotrodding lever guns to hell since the 80's, like 50KPSI( 150gn jacketed bullets at 2300fps in a 357! basically 30-30 power) and uses a 20" round barrel Rossi for the hottest ones https://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco ... rature.htm please view the data at your own risk folks.

Anyway sorry for the thread Hijack and all because Billo wanted to recommend a nice rifle he owns. Thats thread drift.

[Obie73]

No worries about the thread drift. Ah, the good ol' Rossi 92. A very compact, short action but strong. Mine used to fling the empties out with a solid whack into the roof at the range. The 73 politely tips the brass out onto the shooting bench beside you if you work the lever at the right speed.

[Billo]

Hey Mickb topic of Leverevolution was well covered so a little segue into LA 357s would seem more than appropriate

Rossi's are like horses, ya just dont know which one is bad

[mickb]

Same with chiappas in my experience mate so if im getting a dodgy horse I want one at half the price.

[mickb]

No worries about the thread drift. Ah, the good ol' Rossi 92. A very compact, short action but strong. Mine used to fling the empties out with a solid whack into the roof at the range. The 73 politely tips the brass out onto the shooting bench beside you if you work the lever at the right speed.

yeah mate if a Rossi isnt over sprung making your thumb go blue pushing rounds in, spitting some back out if you lose your focus and flinging the brass across a 1/4 acre its not doing its job.

Actually one of the US premier lever/cowboy gunsmiths Steve Jones puts out a DVD on smoothing Rossi's and other lever actions. I believe sorting the spring and extraction is part of it. He says about 1/3 of a guns production cost goes into the final fits, checks and smoothing and this is where Rossi avoids cost.

[Billo]

No worries about the thread drift. Ah, the good ol' Rossi 92. A very compact, short action but strong. Mine used to fling the empties out with a solid whack into the roof at the range. The 73 politely tips the brass out onto the shooting bench beside you if you work the lever at the right speed.

yeah mate if a Rossi isnt over sprung making your thumb go blue pushing rounds in, spitting some back out if you lose your focus and flinging the brass across a 1/4 acre its not doing its job.

Actually one of the US premier lever/cowboy gunsmiths Steve Jones puts out a DVD on smoothing Rossi's and other lever actions. I believe sorting the spring and extraction is part of it. He says about 1/3 of a guns production cost goes into the final fits, checks and smoothing and this is where Rossi avoids cost.

Yeah heaps of content on trigger spring upgrades and how to slick up a Ross 92, Never pulled a 92 apart but doesnt appear too tricky..... but yeah machining marks and burr removal would certainly slick em up.