What do you use your 300 Blackout for ?

[wanneroo]

After all these years, I still don't understand the 300 Blackout

As a car guy I see it like taking a classic muscle car, pulling the V8 engine out and replacing it with a 4 clynder starfire .... looks real cool sitting in the driveway but doesn't perform.

Given how hard it is to get suppressors legally in Australia and how an AR 15 style rifle is just a pipe dream for most, I just don't understand why a sluggish 7.62 × 35 would sell.

I reckon if you add another 16mm of case length to the Blackout, it would probably perform quite adequately.

30 cal in a .223 package.

Advantages can include:
1. The ability to repurpose 223 brass
2. Can use any available 308 bullet out there from light to heavy
3. Uses readily available magnum pistol powders
4. Uses a regular 223 action

I have 110g bullets running at 2500 FPS out of a 16 inch barrel and that will work for anything under 200m.

[wanneroo]

Saving 10c per shot in powder and giving up around 1000 fps still doesn't sound like a great deal to me... even worse if it's fussy with powder.

It uses any magnum pistol powder. Hodgdon H110/Win 296, IMR 4227, Lil Gun, Vihtavouri N110, A1680, etc.

Companies have also made 300 BO specific powders such as CFE BLK. Lovex has a few powders as well I plan to experiment with.

It's not all that hard to get 110-125g bullets in the range of 2200 to 2500 FPS.

[bigpete]

I dont own one,but I'd use it for shooting stiff if I did lol

[wrenchman]

I was thinking of getting one but was sold on the 350 from my son I am still working with the 350 so I cant be sure I will let you guys know what I do know both were made for a,r, plat from from the start keep it in mind and the 350 was for hunting and the 300 sub sonic suppresed for killing men.

[bladeracer]

We still don't have ready supply of _any_ pistol powders here, so most people would be experimenting with AR2207 (H4198) as their fastest option, and I would think it is well suited to subsonic loading in the BLK.

In the US you guys have lots of AR-platforms, we have none. The primary advantages of the BLK are that it runs in the AR (no benefit to us there), and the 7"-twist. For somebody that wants to run subsonic with factory ammo then BLK is a good choice, otherwise we're much better served just running .308 (or any number of similar chamberings) at reduced levels. This means you also always have the option of immediately dropping in full-power loads any time you need to, the BLK doesn't offer .308 performance but can get close to .30-30 performance in a longer rifle barrel.

There is still a huge misconception here that subsonic is pointless without a suppressor, so lots of people aren't interested in subsonic, believing it's going to be just as loud but with a range of 50m max, which does sound pointless (most people here also believe that suppressors are pointless with supersonic ammo). And most people aren't willing to buy a rifle for which there is factory subsonic ammo available here to try it out before getting into loading their own ammo. I think most people that do load their own are willing to experiment with reduced loads, and subs, and lots do see the benefits once they try subsonics. I chat with _lots_ of people about it because subsonic is something I've done in all my rifles since I got my first centrefire as a kid. Most shooters also don't understand that bullet deformation relies on terminal velocity. Subsonic loads have very low terminal velocity so you really can't expect a rifle bullet to perform like a VMax hitting at 3000fps, they're much more likely to perform like an FMJ at these low speeds, and there are still people here that think of FMJ's as "unethical" for hunting. You need to be willing to learn to shoot better, and accept when you don't have an effective shot into the brain or cervical spine to drop the animal cleanly without relying on the bullet doing anything magical. Some chamberings (mostly .30-cal and above) at least have the option of using pistol bullets that are designed to work at low velocities, most don't. But there are bullets on the market now designed specifically to function at very low rifle velocities. I think there are a lot more shooters here using, or wanting to try, subsonic loads, especially with farming blocks getting smaller.

Saving 10c per shot in powder and giving up around 1000 fps still doesn't sound like a great deal to me... even worse if it's fussy with powder.

It uses any magnum pistol powder. Hodgdon H110/Win 296, IMR 4227, Lil Gun, Vihtavouri N110, A1680, etc.

Companies have also made 300 BO specific powders such as CFE BLK. Lovex has a few powders as well I plan to experiment with.

It's not all that hard to get 110-125g bullets in the range of 2200 to 2500 FPS.

[in2anity]

If you want performance, shooting the supers is the go. I'm confident to hit a 1ft target first shot at 200m, and probs 300m if the wind is perpendicular and more or less steady. Fishy head or tail wind hough is a bit risky but especially if there's FA tells - that's what all those bigger cals are better at cutting right through, without doubt.

[wanneroo]

We still don't have ready supply of _any_ pistol powders here, so most people would be experimenting with AR2207 (H4198) as their fastest option, and I would think it is well suited to subsonic loading in the BLK.

In the US you guys have lots of AR-platforms, we have none. The primary advantages of the BLK are that it runs in the AR (no benefit to us there), and the 7"-twist. For somebody that wants to run subsonic with factory ammo then BLK is a good choice, otherwise we're much better served just running .308 (or any number of similar chamberings) at reduced levels. This means you also always have the option of immediately dropping in full-power loads any time you need to, the BLK doesn't offer .308 performance but can get close to .30-30 performance in a longer rifle barrel.

There is still a huge misconception here that subsonic is pointless without a suppressor, so lots of people aren't interested in subsonic, believing it's going to be just as loud but with a range of 50m max, which does sound pointless (most people here also believe that suppressors are pointless with supersonic ammo). And most people aren't willing to buy a rifle for which there is factory subsonic ammo available here to try it out before getting into loading their own ammo. I think most people that do load their own are willing to experiment with reduced loads, and subs, and lots do see the benefits once they try subsonics. I chat with _lots_ of people about it because subsonic is something I've done in all my rifles since I got my first centrefire as a kid. Most shooters also don't understand that bullet deformation relies on terminal velocity. Subsonic loads have very low terminal velocity so you really can't expect a rifle bullet to perform like a VMax hitting at 3000fps, they're much more likely to perform like an FMJ at these low speeds, and there are still people here that think of FMJ's as "unethical" for hunting. You need to be willing to learn to shoot better, and accept when you don't have an effective shot into the brain or cervical spine to drop the animal cleanly without relying on the bullet doing anything magical. Some chamberings (mostly .30-cal and above) at least have the option of using pistol bullets that are designed to work at low velocities, most don't. But there are bullets on the market now designed specifically to function at very low rifle velocities. I think there are a lot more shooters here using, or wanting to try, subsonic loads, especially with farming blocks getting smaller.

When I did Project Big Booty on the channel, I had some folks complain that I didn't use a suppressor and that it was therefore a "pointless" project, I disagreed.

I found the loads were very accurate and even at above subsonic at 1250 FPS, the 220g bullets were a nice shooting load and perfect for someone who wanted to shoot close range at target or for pest control. At 100 meters, they hit the gong plenty hard. Once I got the load down to subsonic without a suppressor, the noise reduction was significant enough I asked someone down in the valley if they heard me shooting that day and they did not. So even if one wanted to shoot without a suppressor the noise reduction without the supersonic crack could be helpful for those that want to keep the noise down.

In regards to the AR platform deal, well these days 300 Black is getting chambered in plenty of reasonably priced bolt action rifles like CZs and Rugers, so it's long breeched the dam of just being an AR thing. In fact for those that really want to go quiet these bolt action rifles are getting pretty popular since all the gas goes down the barrel and with a suppressor and subsonic ammo, it's super quiet.

I have some experience shooting 308 subsonic and with a suppressor too, in fact I have a few videos of me and a relative doing that on my YT channel for those interested. Yes, it works just fine and is certainly an option. However that Remington 700 is a bigger size and weight package than a .223 sized 300 Black chambered Ruger American rifle and that is where the advantage is for some folks.

[bladeracer]

I have some experience shooting 308 subsonic and with a suppressor too, in fact I have a few videos of me and a relative doing that on my YT channel for those interested. Yes, it works just fine and is certainly an option. However that Remington 700 is a bigger size and weight package than a .223 sized 300 Black chambered Ruger American rifle and that is where the advantage is for some folks.

Mini-actions are an option but by far most .223 bolt-actions are still short-actions, for the .308. As far as I'm aware the Ruger Americans are Short, Long and Magnum actions (mine are all short-action), they don't offer a mini-action. So the Ruger American BLK shouldn't be any shorter than a short-action Rem700 of similar barrel length, unless your Rem700 is a long-action chambered in .223Rem.

I would assume there must be a nice advantage to using 300BLK in a short-action and being able to seat those huge bullets out to 2.800", you should be able to match 30-30 performance I would think. Have you done any testing of 2.800" BLK in a Ruger American?

[wanneroo]

I have some experience shooting 308 subsonic and with a suppressor too, in fact I have a few videos of me and a relative doing that on my YT channel for those interested. Yes, it works just fine and is certainly an option. However that Remington 700 is a bigger size and weight package than a .223 sized 300 Black chambered Ruger American rifle and that is where the advantage is for some folks.

Mini-actions are an option but by far most .223 bolt-actions are still short-actions, for the .308. As far as I'm aware the Ruger Americans are Short, Long and Magnum actions (mine are all short-action), they don't offer a mini-action. So the Ruger American BLK shouldn't be any shorter than a short-action Rem700 of similar barrel length, unless your Rem700 is a long-action chambered in .223Rem.

I would assume there must be a nice advantage to using 300BLK in a short-action and being able to seat those huge bullets out to 2.800", you should be able to match 30-30 performance I would think. Have you done any testing of 2.800" BLK in a Ruger American?

I think max OAL is around 2.26. The 220g bullets I did I went against convention wisdom, followed the directions from the manufacturer and seated them at 2.15 and that worked great. I have only shot 30-30 once or twice but I think seat of the pant feel that 300 Black with the right bullet and powder should match it just fine.

[Wyliecoyote]

After all these years, I still don't understand the 300 Blackout

As a car guy I see it like taking a classic muscle car, pulling the V8 engine out and replacing it with a 4 clynder starfire .... looks real cool sitting in the driveway but doesn't perform.

Given how hard it is to get suppressors legally in Australia and how an AR 15 style rifle is just a pipe dream for most, I just don't understand why a sluggish 7.62 × 35 would sell.

I reckon if you add another 16mm of case length to the Blackout, it would probably perform quite adequately.

30 cal in a .223 package.

Advantages can include:
1. The ability to repurpose 223 brass
2. Can use any available 308 bullet out there from light to heavy
3. Uses readily available magnum pistol powders
4. Uses a regular 223 action

I have 110g bullets running at 2500 FPS out of a 16 inch barrel and that will work for anything under 200m.

I said early in the thread that the best one can do with a 300 AAC is ream it out to 30 Apache. No-one asked why. The reason is it gets you right away from the pistol powders or 2205 and into 2207, 2219 and BM1, powders readily available or if you are real lucky and can get or hoarded CFE BLK, you gain another 150 fps.. You don't need any dies beyond Hornady 300 AAC dies set higher. One pass with the elliptical expander and the 223 case is good to go. If the case head is tight, pass the brass through a full length 223 die first. The Apache replicates 7.62x39 up to 150 grain bullets.

[Blr243]

So no cutting 223 brass shorter like we have to do to make 300 aac ?

[Blr243]

We have learnt how to shoot supers with 125 grain bullets and 2207 , so now the problem of no 2205 doesn’t bother us blackout shooters.

[Die Judicii]

Shame about AR2205 shortage though - without that, indeed it's an utter safe queen.

Unless of course, you had some foresight, and read the "writing on the wall",,,,,, as I did,, and stocked up big on supplies while the prices were still down down.

[Die Judicii]

Saving 10c per shot in powder and giving up around 1000 fps still doesn't sound like a great deal to me... even worse if it's fussy with powder.

Yeh, it's always puzzled me to, why bother. But must have some uses I guess.

In total defence of everything JimTom has already said,,,,,, but some on here just don't get it.

As a slow (still much faster than piggie can run), but heavy hitter, while also recycling 223 brass,,,, it is a generally quieter and less felt recoil/round/rifle.
Even better if you can have access to a suppressor.
In the warmer months of the year I spend quite a few hours relaxing and sitting over dams picking off pigs as they come in for water.

For me,,,,,, it's the perfect recipe.

Range/distance really doesn't play a part,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and tbh,,,,, neither does fps when it comes to porkers coming in for a drink.

But you simply cannot discount the positives of a relaxing afternoon or evening.
And,,,,,,,,,,, because I stocked up big on being able to fill the nose bag for feeding it while it was ohhhhhh so cheap,,,,,,,, I don't have any problems.

[wanneroo]

In total defence of everything JimTom has already said,,,,,, but some on here just don't get it.

As a slow, but heavy hitter, while also recycling 223 brass,,,, it is a generally quieter and less felt recoil/round/rifle.
Even better if you can have access to a suppressor.
In the warmer months of the year I spend quite a few hours relaxing and sitting over dams picking off pigs as they come in for water.

For me,,,,,, it's the perfect recipe.

Range/distance really doesn't play a part,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and tbh,,,,, neither does fps when it comes to porkers coming in for a drink.

But you simply cannot discount the positives of a relaxing afternoon or evening.
And,,,,,,,,,,, because I stocked up big on being able to fill the nose bag for feeding it while it was ohhhhhh so cheap,,,,,,,, I don't have any problems.

Especially for handloaders, it's an easy cartridge, uses what amounts to an ass end of a .223 cartridge and you can make any 308 bullet work.

But yes, a lot of folks like what they like and are never going to try it, so more for us!

I am buried right now with video projects, but I will have more 300 Blackout stuff on my channel as I can do it. I can think of two bullets I will be doing at some point, 110g Nosler Varmageddon and the 125 Speer TNT. I also got a Lovex powder to try with 220g bullets.

[bigrich]

I’d use the 300bo in place of an air rifle. Maybe

[JimTom]

Maybe just have a look at the ballistics. It stacks up ok for certain applications.

Either that or just go down the path where you sh1tcan every cartridge manufactured after 1950.

I'm a massive fan of many modern cartridges, I own a .243 which itself is a post 1950 , necked down. 308 and a .223 ... also post 1950 improved version of its parent cartridge.
Iv looked at the data, and it only makes sense if your hunting suppressed.
I just don't see any advantage in making something with such poor performance, very limited range with a painful trajectory that's almost ONE THOUSAND feet per second SLOWER than a .308, especially given you could simply load a .308 with trailboss for sluggish projectile.

If you read my post again Sir, you would see that my 100 fps slower reference was in comparison to a 30/30, not a .308.

[Die Judicii]

Jim Tom M8,,,,,,,,,,,
Some people speed read (poorly) and therefore tend to miss the important bits,,
Others see a headline and their brain invents dialogue to suit what is in their head,,
Either way, sometimes your pushing sh!t uphill for the truth to be uploaded.

[bladeracer]

If you read my post again Sir, you would see that my 100 fps slower reference was in comparison to a 30/30, not a .308.

I don't think he is referencing .30-30 at all, simply stating that the 300BLK loses 1000fps to the .308, which is a stretch. In similar barrel lengths the difference is probably closer to 500fps difference with similar bullet weights I would think.

[wanneroo]

If you read my post again Sir, you would see that my 100 fps slower reference was in comparison to a 30/30, not a .308.

I don't think he is referencing .30-30 at all, simply stating that the 300BLK loses 1000fps to the .308, which is a stretch. In similar barrel lengths the difference is probably closer to 500fps difference with similar bullet weights I would think.

The lightest bullets I have loaded for 308 is 130g and I loaded those hot at around 3000 FPS.

The lightest bullets I have loaded for 300 Blackout is 110g and have those running at 2500 FPS.

My typical 308 150g FMJ load is around 2600 to 2700 FPS.

I don't have my data handy but I think I have run 125g bullets in 300 BO at around 2300 FPS.

So no 300 Blackout is not off by 1000 FPS but certainly it is a drop, however again we have to consider what it's all about and 300 BO is a short range intermediate cartridge about on par with 7.62x39. Two different tools for two different things.

Frankly when I started reloading and shooting again over 10 years ago, I was big on 308 but since I don't shoot long range really, it was really overkill for what I was doing and these days despite having thousands of rounds, sadly it mostly sits and I might shoot 20-40 rounds a year.

Now I just got word some relatives are moving to Montana so I can see going out there and doing some more long range shooting and putting those rifles to work more.

[bigrich]

in reference to repurposing 223 brass , i think 6x45 is a great idea as long as you can get decent mag length . looking at the ballistics it's very efficient .
as for a easy on the shoulder pig gun, i think the old 30-30 has more to offer than the blackout . just sayin'.....

i suppose variety is the spice of life , and we gotta keep the firearms industry tikkin' over with new products short actions are better we're told, so the 6.5 swede and 7x57 got reinvented into 260rem and 7-08 i suppose with a more efficient case design they are a little more consistent with accuracy.
i'm a big bloke and i wobble too much with light rifles , and have no problem carrying a 8 1/2 lb rifle over distance . i don't get the infatuation with really light rifles like the howa mini . not a bad little rifle , but the worst crappy plastic magazine i've ever seen . JMHO

[Blr243]

Update numb 8 from eureka guns say their lever release rifle is also going to be available in 300 aac instead of just the originally specified 223 , so now my mind is ticking over with a new decision to make