454 casull Rossi 92

[mickb]

yeah mate, just talked to the LGS and there are rumours that suppliers here are trying to get Hodgon coming in again. The other issue is no one can move powder around easilt any more. The government tightened a bunch if laws, also so called industry groups , the trucking companies jumped on the bandwagon. Noia trading still has Alliant powders in their vault they cant get to North QLD.

[mickb]

Well settled on what I think is a good bullet to start testing.

300 XTP.

Shows nose flattening/expansion as low as 950fps impact, maybe to 55-60cal
Holds together( but gets pretty flat, like over an inch expansion) up to 1800fps impact.

Thats a very decent expansion envelope. Covers carbine 45 colt loads to full house 454 casull. If it shoots okay I wont bother testing many others.

The 300XTP-MAG bullet, a different bullet with reinforced jacket that actually wraps around into the hollowpoint itself, is just too hard, really needs 460S&W speeds to work reliably or it pencils through small game. The yanks love their hard ass bullets.

[bigrich]

Well settled on what I think is a good bullet to start testing.

300 XTP.

Shows nose flattening/expansion as low as 950fps impact, maybe to 55-60cal
Holds together( but gets pretty flat, like over an inch expansion) up to 1800fps impact.

Thats a very decent expansion envelope. Covers carbine 45 colt loads to full house 454 casull. If it shoots okay I wont bother testing many others.

The 300XTP-MAG bullet, a different bullet with reinforced jacket that actually wraps around into the hollowpoint itself, is just too hard, really needs 460S&W speeds to work reliably or it pencils through small game. The yanks love their hard ass bullets.

i reckon the 300xtp at medium loads will be a excellent choice mate . i've used hornady 357 180gn xtp's out of a 358 win at about 2400fps and it was devasting on lighter game up to about 50kg . too much speed for heavier game with that load. think i was using BM2

[mickb]

Yeah thats high speed for those projectiles mate. Its a tough bullet in 357 and even 357 maximum but 2400 would make things graphic ;D

[mickb]

So some more titbits of info.

Heaviest load I can find online and I wont post the powder load itself but its by a reputable bullet maker in the US

290 grain hardcast bullet, just under 2200fps. 3100ftlbs.

Good heavens, same power as fullhouse 444marlin.

[mickb]

Just posting someone elses result for the 300XTP mag. These bullets are too hard for normal game I reckon.1444fps impact, failed to expand. Thats a very hard bullet in pistol calibres.Even with the casulls starting speed these will be pencilling through a lot of game at 100 yards. Still kill obviously but a bit meh if some bloke with a 44mag can drop game faster.

[mickb]

Better bullet is the 300XTP regular version. 2000fps impact below, she flattened a lot, much like a 240XTP at the same speed, but doesnt fragment, thats still a killer.

[Billo]

No flies on some of those loads mickb, as you've said pretty much 45/70 type power in a short n handy carbine. Red dot a muzzle brake so the wood work doesn't turn into kindling

[mickb]

yeah Billo, . Im going to stay away from the real hot stuff for that reason. 1900fps with the 300XTP's and maybe Lee 300( if i can be arsed re setting up to cast again) will do me. Thats an honest 300fps or roughly 100 yard headstart on my 44 mag.

The 45-70 leaves the 454 casull behind as the bullets get heavier. Cant compete against that available case volume. The margin is less with the 444 as it doesnt have a lot of ultraheavy bullets itself anway.

My plan of 1900/300 is still about 150-200fps under full power so hopefully less chance of shaking the magazine and stock off it.

[Valdash]

Yeah, the later models are definitely beefier. The reinforced stock is a nice touch too.

[mickb]

Well it arrived, is in really good nick. The previous owner was a backyard operator gunsmith who turned 80 and is getting out of the game. His son said he reckons about 40 shots went through it since it was bought 10 years ago. My dies arrived, also plenty of 300XTP projectiles so I will get loading and do some velocity testing Wednesday after next. I also spent a pretty penny internationally ordering a redding profile crimp die the yanks recommended. Turns out its for heavy loads in revolvers where the projectile backs out of the case due to recoil and binds the cylinder up from cycling. Apparently unecessary for a lever action, could have stuck with the regular factory crimp die. Nvm. Now just to add one of Danger Noodles rossi 92 pic rails and put a red dot on it

[Billo]

Happy days mickb, grab a slip on pachmayr recoil pad to tame things, it's what I do on my 500

[Blr243]

And we look fwd to a pic of its first boar

[jakethompson]

Yeah mate, that’s a great pickup, especially given how rare these 454s are. The beefed-up mag tube and threaded receiver definitely add strength, but as others have said, it’s still a marginal design for full-tilt 454 loads. If you keep it in the 50-55k PSI range, it should hold up fine.

I’ve seen a few discussions on these over at Paco Kelly’s forum—seems like the general consensus is they’re solid if you don’t push them too hard. Some minor loctite on screws wouldn’t be a bad idea either, given how these can shake things loose.

[Obie73]

Yes I keep reading about the profile crimp die or the factory crimp die being best for lever action rounds, so that the bullet isn't pushed into the brass when loaded into the tubular magazine with a strong spring.

I reload for a 357 model 1873 and so far have just been using the standard roll crimp that my Hornady seating die does. With care you can get a fairly solid crimp that firmly rolls into the cannelure on Hornady XTPs. As far as I can see that should firmly hold the projectile and so far there only seems to be a problem with it if I use nickel plated brass as sometimes the nickel can flake off where the crimp was.

But every now and then I wonder if I should try a different type of crimp, like the 'factory crimp' die from Lee I think it is.

Is the standard roll crimp like you get with the Hornady die perfectly fine for what I need would you say? Thanks for any advice.

[mickb]

Yeah mate, that’s a great pickup, especially given how rare these 454s are. The beefed-up mag tube and threaded receiver definitely add strength, but as others have said, it’s still a marginal design for full-tilt 454 loads. If you keep it in the 50-55k PSI range, it should hold up fine.

I’ve seen a few discussions on these over at Paco Kelly’s forum—seems like the general consensus is they’re solid if you don’t push them too hard. Some minor loctite on screws wouldn’t be a bad idea either, given how these can shake things loose.

Most the fellas at pacos are older or retired blokes who therefore got the first batches of the 454 rossis in the 2000's when they were younger., and the first batches had problems. On castboolits, highroad and ruger forums with the younger crowd and a lot running full house in the upgraded guns. Also need to be careful what we call marginal in the same sentence as strength. Fittings sure but the action itself has never let go, that I know of. It's strong enough for 65k or they would have been blowing up and off the market 20 years ago.

[Blr243]

Obie. Personally I wouldn’t bother if what u are already doing works fine. I struggle to seat and crimp in one process. That’s why I use the Lee FCD as a final step after Seating with a standard seating die And it’s a cheap die to buy. Easy to adjust.