Milsurp rifle cleaning question

[hj1985]

Happy New Year guys

I’d like to take good care of my collection so I can maintain their value.
I usually fire around 10–20 rounds per range session and I’m trying to set up a proper cleaning SOP afterward.

I don’t have the skill set to fully disassemble a firearm, so I clean everything as a complete rifle.

Bore cleaning:
I’ve been advised to use a couple of wet patches with solvent, wait 5–10 minutes, then run a copper brush with solvent, followed by dry patches or a bore mop until they come out clean.

I have a few questions:

1.What solvent should I be using?

I’ve been told different things by different people.

One person suggested that after firing 20–30 rounds, metho is sufficient as a carbon cleaner, and that a proper bore cleaner (e.g. Hoppe’s No. 9) is only needed every 200–300 rounds when copper fouling starts to build up.
Another person told me I should use a bore cleaner every time I clean the rifle.

2.How clean do the dry patches actually need to be?
I understand that on an older bore, patches may never come out perfectly white.

For reference, after firing 15 rounds through my Swedish Mauser, it took about 10 dry patches before they stopped coming out noticeably dirty.

thumbnail_IMG_2784.jpg (649.82 KiB) Viewed 1323 times

I used 40+ dry patches on my Lee-Enfield…no idea why, as I only fired about 20 rounds. should not be so dirty!

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3.Should I oil the bore every time after cleaning?

Bolt:
Is it sufficient to wipe it down with a silicone cloth, or should I use a cloth with gun oil and wipe the bolt that way?

Other metal parts:
Should these also be wiped down with a light coat of gun oil after each range session?

Wooden stock:
How often should the stock be waxed?
Is waxing something that’s only necessary for long-term storage, or should it be done periodically?

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Tinker]

Ask 100 people and you'll get 100 different answers.
The aims of cleaning the barrel are to preserve the metalwork and to maintain accuracy. Too little cleaning will allow fouling (copper and carbon) to build up which will affect accuracy and allow corrosion to develop underneath it. Too much cleaning may prematurely wear out the barrel or, more significantly, damage the all-important crown.
I'm a collector, and I clean my milsurp barrels after each range session (10-100 rounds). I push a dry patch through to remove the bulk of the fouling, then 4-6 strokes with a copper brush and a non-ammonia copper solvent, leave in for 10 mins or so, patch out with dry patches until they are mostly clean (not necessarily perfectly clean), then push an oiled patch through (any machine oil will do). The bore should be oiled after every cleaning. Wash the solvent off the brush and cleaning rod. Invest in a short pistol cleaning rod with a loop at the end, for cleaning and oiling the often neglected chamber.
Perhaps all of this is more than needed, but I get a lot of satisfaction from looking after my collection and original barrels aren't being made any more.
I keep an oily rag in a jar, and use it to wipe down the bolt and all exposed metalwork. Again any machine oil will work. Don't use too much, as it may seep in between the metal and the wood which will eventually weaken the wood and may affect accuracy.
I don't wax the woodwork. I use a 50:50 mixture of linseed oil and gum turpentine (which helps the oil to penetrate). Mine get a light wipe-down about every 6 months, when I also re-oil the bores and the exposed metalwork.

[No1Mk3]

I use a home made cleaner, a modified Ed's Red, comprising equal parts Kerosine, ATF and Mineral Turps. It is a slight variation on WW1 US Frankford Arsenal no18 and is heaps cheaper than anything else. My oil is the same without the Turps. I have been using this on all my collection (Military small arms 1850 to 1950) other than Black Powder for over 40 years and have never had any problems at all. Lightly moisten a cloth with the oil and wipe everything metallic. I do this every shoot as a rifle may not be used again for a couple of years or more, my normal comp rifles and handguns are also cleaned every shoot. Don't wax the wood, wipe annually with a Linseed Oil moistened cloth.

[hj1985]

I use a home made cleaner, a modified Ed's Red, comprising equal parts Kerosine, ATF and Mineral Turps. It is a slight variation on WW1 US Frankford Arsenal no18 and is heaps cheaper than anything else. My oil is the same without the Turps. I have been using this on all my collection (Military small arms 1850 to 1950) other than Black Powder for over 40 years and have never had any problems at all. Lightly moisten a cloth with the oil and wipe everything metallic. I do this every shoot as a rifle may not be used again for a couple of years or more, my normal comp rifles and handguns are also cleaned every shoot. Don't wax the wood, wipe annually with a Linseed Oil moistened cloth.

Thank you for your advice.

Can I use this kind of linseed oil (the Ready To Use Timber Oil)?
https://diggersaustralia.com.au/choose- ... imber-oil/

[hj1985]

Ask 100 people and you'll get 100 different answers.
The aims of cleaning the barrel are to preserve the metalwork and to maintain accuracy. Too little cleaning will allow fouling (copper and carbon) to build up which will affect accuracy and allow corrosion to develop underneath it. Too much cleaning may prematurely wear out the barrel or, more significantly, damage the all-important crown.
I'm a collector, and I clean my milsurp barrels after each range session (10-100 rounds). I push a dry patch through to remove the bulk of the fouling, then 4-6 strokes with a copper brush and a non-ammonia copper solvent, leave in for 10 mins or so, patch out with dry patches until they are mostly clean (not necessarily perfectly clean), then push an oiled patch through (any machine oil will do). The bore should be oiled after every cleaning. Wash the solvent off the brush and cleaning rod. Invest in a short pistol cleaning rod with a loop at the end, for cleaning and oiling the often neglected chamber.
Perhaps all of this is more than needed, but I get a lot of satisfaction from looking after my collection and original barrels aren't being made any more.
I keep an oily rag in a jar, and use it to wipe down the bolt and all exposed metalwork. Again any machine oil will work. Don't use too much, as it may seep in between the metal and the wood which will eventually weaken the wood and may affect accuracy.
I don't wax the woodwork. I use a 50:50 mixture of linseed oil and gum turpentine (which helps the oil to penetrate). Mine get a light wipe-down about every 6 months, when I also re-oil the bores and the exposed metalwork.

Thank you for the tips!. So you use copper solvent every time you clean?

Before shooting, do you run a few dry patches to make sure the bore is oil-free and completely dry?

Do you oil the metal parts after every cleaning, or just periodically (e.g. every six months)?

[bigrich]

stay away from sweets solvent . this stuff if not removed properly will eat the rifling and bore , it's happened to me . after using solvents, i use boretech which is non ammonia, i patch out my barrel after solvents with shellite , which removes any solvent residue , then after the shellite has dried, i patch with oil . i rarely use brushes, just patches . i reckon i've prematurely worn out rifling using brushes too aggressively or too frequently . that's just my take on cleaning . cheers

[No1_49er]

stay away from sweets solvent . this stuff if not removed properly will eat the rifling and bore , it's happened to me . after using solvents, i use boretech which is non ammonia, i patch out my barrel after solvents with shellite , which removes any solvent residue , then after the shellite has dried, i patch with oil . i rarely use brushes, just patches . i reckon i've prematurely worn out rifling using brushes too aggressively or too frequently . that's just my take on cleaning . cheers

Unless you are using stainlees-steel brushes, I seriously doubt that you have "prematurely worn out rifling using brushes too aggressively or too frequently".
I call BS on that.

Nylon or bronze bristled brushes can never compare with the passage, under immense pressure, of a projectile travelling at some 2,000 fps.
Maybe you can explain how a bronze bristled brush can damage the significantly harder steel of a barrel, even with repeated use?

[bigrich]

stay away from sweets solvent . this stuff if not removed properly will eat the rifling and bore , it's happened to me . after using solvents, i use boretech which is non ammonia, i patch out my barrel after solvents with shellite , which removes any solvent residue , then after the shellite has dried, i patch with oil . i rarely use brushes, just patches . i reckon i've prematurely worn out rifling using brushes too aggressively or too frequently . that's just my take on cleaning . cheers

Unless you are using stainlees-steel brushes, I seriously doubt that you have "prematurely worn out rifling using brushes too aggressively or too frequently".
I call BS on that.

Nylon or bronze bristled brushes can never compare with the passage, under immense pressure, of a projectile travelling at some 2,000 fps.
Maybe you can explain how a bronze bristled brush can damage the significantly harder steel of a barrel, even with repeated use?

i used to think that too , and also reasoned the view same as you that a brush couldn't wear a barrel compared to a projectile at high velocity . but some recent investigating has proven to me at least , that brushes and liberal amounts of carbon can cause wear . maybe not so much of a issue on military deep groove barrels but some of my aftermarket barrels have gone "off" with liberal brush use .
JMHO, make of it what you will

[Wapiti]

In a practical sense, whether it's a bronze brush or a nylon one, they are both the same when it comes to holding and spreading removed carbon that's been scrubbed into a paste. Carbon is harder than barrel steel and in suspension will practically become a polishing paste - in theory this will remove barrel steel but to say it will wear out a barrel is just not true.
Nobody scrubs the heck out of a carbon impregnated barrel using any of the good solvents and doesn't change to new patches as they go. It's just not a consideration.

On the Sweets story that it etches steel after a certain time, do the experiment itself.
Polish up a high tensile bolt (to closely mimic the 4140 or similar barrel steels, and put a few drops of Sweets on a few spots so you can see what actually happens.
That's make a great informative post, with pics, and put the myths to bed or otherwise, eh?

[bigrich]

In a practical sense, whether it's a bronze brush or a nylon one, they are both the same when it comes to holding and spreading removed carbon that's been scrubbed into a paste. Carbon is harder than barrel steel and in suspension will practically become a polishing paste - in theory this will remove barrel steel but to say it will wear out a barrel is just not true.
Nobody scrubs the heck out of a carbon impregnated barrel using any of the good solvents and doesn't change to new patches as they go. It's just not a consideration.

On the Sweets story that it etches steel after a certain time, do the experiment itself.
Polish up a high tensile bolt (to closely mimic the 4140 or similar barrel steels, and put a few drops of Sweets on a few spots so you can see what actually happens.
That's make a great informative post, with pics, and put the myths to bed or otherwise, eh?

well you guys can clean your rifles anyway you see fit , i'll stick to mine . looking after my barrels by erring on caution is paramount to me . i've had a barrel eaten by sweets and i won't touch the stuff . not the first time the fella who bore scoped it had seen it either . my views on cleaning have been shaped by my own experiences

[Wapiti]

Mate whatever's working for you, you should keep doing. I do too.

I have a pretty new SS 243 that is a real bitch, contrary to what everyone says about this brand, and strangely after I lapped the barrel in December with Autosol and cotton patches, groups halved from 40-50mm as the best, to 20-25mm. It was a last resort.

But you should try that Sweets experiment. You might be surprised. I was. As I'm continuously surprised by the old-wives-tales spread online.
Sometimes I can't work out why my experiences are so different to the accepted line at times.

[Tinker]

Thank you for the tips!. So you use copper solvent every time you clean?

Before shooting, do you run a few dry patches to make sure the bore is oil-free and completely dry?

Do you oil the metal parts after every cleaning, or just periodically (e.g. every six months)?

Yes I do, after firing jacketed projectiles. Like the above posts, I don't use an ammonia-based solvent, not only because it stinks, but because it will remove blueing if it accidentally escapes the bore. For cast lead projectiles I clean with Ballistol, again with a bronze brush.
I always patch out before shooting, and I also wipe out the chamber to ensure it is oil-free. On firing, the brass case expands in the chamber and grips the walls. If the chamber (or cartridge) is oily, the cartridge can't grip and much of the recoil energy is directed at the bolt face. This is particularly true for tapered cases like the .303. Prior to leaving the factory, military rifles were proofed using an oiled cartridge holding a large powder charge. If it survived this test it would receive a proof stamp.
I give all exposed metal parts a light wipe-down with an oily rag before the rifle goes back in the safe. It only takes 30 seconds.
There are a lot of fancy timber oils out there, which would probably work OK for any oiled wooden stock, but if you're going to collect milsurps you may as well use the "traditional" boiled linseed oil (BLO) like the original owners of the weapons. The BLO dries a little faster than raw linseed oil. Don't thin it with mineral turps like the Diggers website says - use natural gum turpentine, it works better and smells great.

[hj1985]

Thank you for the tips!. So you use copper solvent every time you clean?

Before shooting, do you run a few dry patches to make sure the bore is oil-free and completely dry?

Do you oil the metal parts after every cleaning, or just periodically (e.g. every six months)?

Yes I do, after firing jacketed projectiles. Like the above posts, I don't use an ammonia-based solvent, not only because it stinks, but because it will remove blueing if it accidentally escapes the bore. For cast lead projectiles I clean with Ballistol, again with a bronze brush.
I always patch out before shooting, and I also wipe out the chamber to ensure it is oil-free. On firing, the brass case expands in the chamber and grips the walls. If the chamber (or cartridge) is oily, the cartridge can't grip and much of the recoil energy is directed at the bolt face. This is particularly true for tapered cases like the .303. Prior to leaving the factory, military rifles were proofed using an oiled cartridge holding a large powder charge. If it survived this test it would receive a proof stamp.
I give all exposed metal parts a light wipe-down with an oily rag before the rifle goes back in the safe. It only takes 30 seconds.
There are a lot of fancy timber oils out there, which would probably work OK for any oiled wooden stock, but if you're going to collect milsurps you may as well use the "traditional" boiled linseed oil (BLO) like the original owners of the weapons. The BLO dries a little faster than raw linseed oil. Don't thin it with mineral turps like the Diggers website says - use natural gum turpentine, it works better and smells great.

Thanks mate!

After normal solvent cleaning and dry patching, the bore appeared clean. A subsequent light oil patch came out noticeably dark.

IMG_2823.jpeg (485.47 KiB) Viewed 1143 times

I’m assuming this is oil lifting remaining staining or embedded fouling rather than loose carbon. Would most of you just finish with a final dry patch and leave it at that?

Not looking to chase a white patch and risk over-cleaning.

Lastly, do you try to avoid getting oil onto the wood completely when wiping down metal parts?

Interested to hear how others handle this. Cheers.

[bigrich]

Lastly, do you try to avoid getting oil onto the wood completely when wiping down metal parts?

Interested to hear how others handle this. Cheers.

i don't worry about oil on the wood of my rifles as i use a oil called balistol . developed for the german army in 1904 , besides being a gun oil , it rejuvenates and protects wood and leather ,and can be used as a antiseptic ! . i've been using it for years . only thing i will say is it appears to "dry out" over time , so probably not the best oil for long term storage . i've heard some oils , G96 in particular, can actually eat into wood . whether or not this is true i can't say . however i like the smell of G96 and think it makes a great aftershave

[CJRBOLTGUN1]

Lastly, do you try to avoid getting oil onto the wood completely when wiping down metal parts?

Interested to hear how others handle this. Cheers.

i don't worry about oil on the wood of my rifles as i use a oil called balistol . developed for the german army in 1904 , besides being a gun oil , it rejuvenates and protects wood and leather ,and can be used as a antiseptic ! . i've been using it for years . only thing i will say is it appears to "dry out" over time , so probably not the best oil for long term storage . i've heard some oils , G96 in particular, can actually eat into wood . whether or not this is true i can't say . however i like the smell of G96 and think it makes a great aftershave

Ballistol is good and yeah I agree it does thicken as it dries, so I don't use it so much anymore, I've had light primer strikes due to it getting into areas of the bolt and affecting the firing pin