Barrel Bore Cleaning. Howa Rust.

[dirtjay]

Gday.
I have a recurring corrosion issue on a new Howa 223
It’s a heavy barrel, and only shot about 30 rounds since new.
The problem is I’m finding rust in the bore every week now.
I have 2 other Howas that don’t have this problem at all.
The 223 sits in a safe with 2 other rifles and they do not do what this one does.
Cleaned before sighting in, then oiled and sat in the safe for 3 weeks. Fired PPU factory ammo.
Only first noticed the build up on a trip out west, when a bore snake would not fit just prior to heading out.
Cleaned it out, brush,mop,oil, patched till clean.
The washout was a dark brown, I wondered if a mud wasp nest was in there.
Cleaned and oiled before put in safe when returned home.
2 weeks later I looked at it and the rust looking material was in the bore again. I oiled and brushed, mop, patched and solvent cleaned, then oil again.
1 week later (today) it’s back again.
I can’t understand how fast and how thick it gets.
The same dark brown washout continues.
It looks like a furry coating in the bore every week.

Anyone have any ideas what it could be???

I have a bore scope on its way.
But having shot it only 30 times, I don’t know what’s going on in the bore.

Would love to hear from others that have seen similar.

Cheers

[Damo300]

Id be returning that to the shop.
That does not look good at all, and to happen so quickly.

You're not using that bore cleaning solution are you?

[bigrich]

Gday.
I have a recurring corrosion issue on a new Howa 223
It’s a heavy barrel, and only shot about 30 rounds since new.
The problem is I’m finding rust in the bore every week now.
I have 2 other Howas that don’t have this problem at all.
The 223 sits in a safe with 2 other rifles and they do not do what this one does.
Cleaned before sighting in, then oiled and sat in the safe for 3 weeks. Fired PPU factory ammo.
Only first noticed the build up on a trip out west, when a bore snake would not fit just prior to heading out.
Cleaned it out, brush,mop,oil, patched till clean.
The washout was a dark brown, I wondered if a mud wasp nest was in there.
Cleaned and oiled before put in safe when returned home.
2 weeks later I looked at it and the rust looking material was in the bore again. I oiled and brushed, mop, patched and solvent cleaned, then oil again.
1 week later (today) it’s back again.
I can’t understand how fast and how thick it gets.
The same dark brown washout continues.
It looks like a furry coating in the bore every week.

Anyone have any ideas what it could be???

I have a bore scope on its way.
But having shot it only 30 times, I don’t know what’s going on in the bore.

Would love to hear from others that have seen similar.

Cheers

that's freakin' nuts mate . i've never heard of anything like it . it comes on that quick too . i use shellite to clean any solvent i use for cleaning and let it dry out before oiling . it's almost like there's some sort of metal electrolysis going on . maybe they stuffed up with the metal used to make the barrel ? i'm at a complete loss to explain this . best of luck

[dirtjay]

Id be returning that to the shop.
That does not look good at all, and to happen so quickly.

You're not using that bore cleaning solution are you?

I have only used the bore cleaner a week ago, its the Hoppes one.
This Howa was bought from the big shop in Margate, and I'm not confident they would be interested in doing anything for me.
Its also nearly 2 hour drive for me to get there.

Has anyone had contact with Howa directly?
Would that be worth trying?

Cheers
Jay

[Wapiti]

Id be returning that to the shop.
That does not look good at all, and to happen so quickly.

You're not using that bore cleaning solution are you?

I have only used the bore cleaner a week ago, its the Hoppes one.
This Howa was bought from the big shop in Margate, and I'm not confident they would be interested in doing anything for me.
Its also nearly 2 hour drive for me to get there.

Has anyone had contact with Howa directly?
Would that be worth trying?

Cheers
Jay

Mate what did you use before that? Only cos you mention:

"The problem is I’m finding rust in the bore every week now."
"Cleaned before sighting in, then oiled and sat in the safe for 3 weeks."
"2 weeks later I looked at it and the rust looking material was in the bore again. I oiled and brushed, mop, patched and solvent cleaned, then oil again."
"1 week later (today) it’s back again."

Looks like this has been happening for quite awhile now when I look at all those bits above that you mention that are in order. Sort of like a timeline of your problem. I don't doubt that it's been going on longer than that?
You also say that you only used the Hoppes product a week ago. (highlighted in red above)

Mate what cleaning product did you use before that?

Mate, the problem is not with the shop, and your issue is very odd and every time I've heard of this either, it is with the product used or the procedure of the cleaning.
There is no carbon steel in the world that just self-destructs, only what chemical is put on it or the procedure used in caring for it after that.

Are your other firearms sitting next to it using the same bore products, procedures and made of carbon steel?
Now, some steels do rust more readily than others when exposed to salts, moisture and air - are the other firearms Howas or other brands?

On Howas, their stainless steel used rusts very quickly just from being exposed to air when not coated with oil, when compared to say, Ruger 77's stainless, you could piss on them every day and leave them in the rain and you couldn't induce rust.

[Damo300]

Id be returning that to the shop.
That does not look good at all, and to happen so quickly.

You're not using that bore cleaning solution are you?

I have only used the bore cleaner a week ago, its the Hoppes one.
This Howa was bought from the big shop in Margate, and I'm not confident they would be interested in doing anything for me.
Its also nearly 2 hour drive for me to get there.

Has anyone had contact with Howa directly?
Would that be worth trying?

Cheers
Jay

Highly unlikely the Hoppe's is the issue.
SDS reveals nothing out of the ordinary.

https://assets.unilogcorp.com/187/ITEM/DOC/HOPPES_102274354_SDS.pdf

Can see the proprietary items listed but that's their secrete sauce, and I'm pretty sure non toxic therefore identity can be protected.

What was used on the first clean?

The fact you have 2 other rifles of the same breed sitting there, which I am going to assume have been cared for the same way, with the same ingredients, one can assume it's something isolated to this rifle.

And the shop won't help you with a new rifle?
I'd be in there demanding it be sent back to howa, or find a shop that will help you.

There are plenty of options if you cannot get help, but they're gonna cost you.

[Wm.Traynor]

dirtjay,
I am going to stick my neck out and say that I have never seen anything like your muzzle-pic.
1) I can't see any rifling
2) What I can see is something that looks like tiny golden particles

Not trying to be a S A but happy to be corrected (wouldn't be the first time).

[dirtjay]

Id be returning that to the shop.
That does not look good at all, and to happen so quickly.

You're not using that bore cleaning solution are you?

I have only used the bore cleaner a week ago, its the Hoppes one.
This Howa was bought from the big shop in Margate, and I'm not confident they would be interested in doing anything for me.
Its also nearly 2 hour drive for me to get there.

Has anyone had contact with Howa directly?
Would that be worth trying?

Cheers
Jay

Mate what did you use before that? Only cos you mention:

"The problem is I’m finding rust in the bore every week now."
"Cleaned before sighting in, then oiled and sat in the safe for 3 weeks."
"2 weeks later I looked at it and the rust looking material was in the bore again. I oiled and brushed, mop, patched and solvent cleaned, then oil again."
"1 week later (today) it’s back again."

Looks like this has been happening for quite awhile now when I look at all those bits above that you mention that are in order. Sort of like a timeline of your problem. I don't doubt that it's been going on longer than that?
You also say that you only used the Hoppes product a week ago. (highlighted in red above)

Mate what cleaning product did you use before that?

Mate, the problem is not with the shop, and your issue is very odd and every time I've heard of this either, it is with the product used or the procedure of the cleaning.
There is no carbon steel in the world that just self-destructs, only what chemical is put on it or the procedure used in caring for it after that.

Are your other firearms sitting next to it using the same bore products, procedures and made of carbon steel?
Now, some steels do rust more readily than others when exposed to salts, moisture and air - are the other firearms Howas or other brands?

On Howas, their stainless steel used rusts very quickly just from being exposed to air when not coated with oil, when compared to say, Ruger 77's stainless, you could piss on them every day and leave them in the rain and you couldn't induce rust.

Gday Wapiti,

We've spoken on the phone previously, maybe a couple years ago.
Just to answer your questions.
I have used G96 for cleaning all and other rifles, and all have had the same process that has was applied to this 223.
I only tried the bore cleaner to see if it would rid this issue, it did not.
I agree, I also believe this has been going on longer than I've known. I've had the rifle 5 months, brand new.
Now it has been documented became a concern at the last trip out west, and I am keeping an eye on it, along with trialing different techniques for remedy.
With all my previous cleaning techniques and procedures, I would not have expected this to happen as it hasn't happened with the other rifles.
Yes, the other two Howas are in the same safe, same steel, none of them are stainless steel.

I had a response from the big shop in Margate, and the advice was to block the bore, and see if it returns.
So i will be trying that for the next week.

cheers
Jay

[dirtjay]

dirtjay,
I am going to stick my neck out and say that I have never seen anything like your muzzle-pic.
1) I can't see any rifling
2) What I can see is something that looks like tiny golden particles

Not trying to be a S A but happy to be corrected (wouldn't be the first time).

Thanks mate,
I'm not going to correct you, I wish it was gold particles.
It patches out more brown than rusty red

[dirtjay]

Gday.
I have a recurring corrosion issue on a new Howa 223
It’s a heavy barrel, and only shot about 30 rounds since new.
The problem is I’m finding rust in the bore every week now.
I have 2 other Howas that don’t have this problem at all.
The 223 sits in a safe with 2 other rifles and they do not do what this one does.
Cleaned before sighting in, then oiled and sat in the safe for 3 weeks. Fired PPU factory ammo.
Only first noticed the build up on a trip out west, when a bore snake would not fit just prior to heading out.
Cleaned it out, brush,mop,oil, patched till clean.
The washout was a dark brown, I wondered if a mud wasp nest was in there.
Cleaned and oiled before put in safe when returned home.
2 weeks later I looked at it and the rust looking material was in the bore again. I oiled and brushed, mop, patched and solvent cleaned, then oil again.
1 week later (today) it’s back again.
I can’t understand how fast and how thick it gets.
The same dark brown washout continues.
It looks like a furry coating in the bore every week.

Anyone have any ideas what it could be???

I have a bore scope on its way.
But having shot it only 30 times, I don’t know what’s going on in the bore.

Would love to hear from others that have seen similar.

Cheers

that's freakin' nuts mate . i've never heard of anything like it . it comes on that quick too . i use shellite to clean any solvent i use for cleaning and let it dry out before oiling . it's almost like there's some sort of metal electrolysis going on . maybe they stuffed up with the metal used to make the barrel ? i'm at a complete loss to explain this . best of luck

Yep its nuts alright, I've never seen anything like it also.
I also think there is some sort of chemical reaction going on in there, as the chamber itself is still clean as a whistle.
All good mate, i will persist with getting some answers, and keeping track of what is happening.
It would be great if someone has seen this before, and says yep, do this and its gone.
I am somewhat concerned for the barrel now and what damage may have been done.
Hopefully the borescope arrives next week and I can check it out.

Cheers
Jay

[dirtjay]

Id be returning that to the shop.
That does not look good at all, and to happen so quickly.

You're not using that bore cleaning solution are you?

I have only used the bore cleaner a week ago, its the Hoppes one.
This Howa was bought from the big shop in Margate, and I'm not confident they would be interested in doing anything for me.
Its also nearly 2 hour drive for me to get there.

Has anyone had contact with Howa directly?
Would that be worth trying?

Cheers
Jay

Highly unlikely the Hoppe's is the issue.
SDS reveals nothing out of the ordinary.

https://assets.unilogcorp.com/187/ITEM/DOC/HOPPES_102274354_SDS.pdf

Can see the proprietary items listed but that's their secrete sauce, and I'm pretty sure non toxic therefore identity can be protected.

What was used on the first clean?

The fact you have 2 other rifles of the same breed sitting there, which I am going to assume have been cared for the same way, with the same ingredients, one can assume it's something isolated to this rifle.

And the shop won't help you with a new rifle?
I'd be in there demanding it be sent back to howa, or find a shop that will help you.

There are plenty of options if you cannot get help, but they're gonna cost you.

HAHA i would like to demand a new replacement, but I don't expect that approach would work in that shop.
They actually advised me to plug the bore and see if the substance returns, so thats what ill do for now.
I'll do the right thing and see what happens after another week

Cheers
Jay

[tuknal]

i had the exact same thing happen same rifle same calibre ,,i took it back to the dealer and was given a new one,
take it back and tell them you want a new one
i was told it was because the way i stored it ,,but i had 3 other stainless and 3 other blued rifles sitting in the same cabinet with no issues
dig your heals in,, stainless shouldnt rust like that in any normal circumstances
mine started in the chamber/breech area ,,
ive seen stainless rust from using grinding discs that were used on metals first ,,but i doubt youve been grinding near it
im wondering if the same tooling is being used on steel and stainless at the factory maybe

[Die Judicii]

Mate,,,, I have 3 Howas, and love em to death.
Your post sent me straight to the 2 of them that only get used occasionally,, to check them.
They are both in excellent condition and the same as they were the last time I checked.

Just by looking at your posted pic,,, I would never even attempt to put a single round down that barrel.
It looks like an old and decayed sewer pipe.

I would advise you pack it up, (with your other Howa's,, and make the 2hr drive with them, to show the "store" in person.
There would have to be (surely) a definite manufacture issue with that one barrel in particular.

[dirtjay]

i had the exact same thing happen same rifle same calibre ,,i took it back to the dealer and was given a new one,
take it back and tell them you want a new one
i was told it was because the way i stored it ,,but i had 3 other stainless and 3 other blued rifles sitting in the same cabinet with no issues
dig your heals in,, stainless shouldnt rust like that in any normal circumstances
mine started in the chamber/breech area ,,
ive seen stainless rust from using grinding discs that were used on metals first ,,but i doubt youve been grinding near it
im wondering if the same tooling is being used on steel and stainless at the factory maybe

Appreciate your reply mate.
Unfortunately, I'm a little relieved that it has happened elsewhere with the same brand and calibre.
Looks like i might have to take a day off work and head up there with them all.

Cheers
Jay

[dirtjay]

Mate,,,, I have 3 Howas, and love em to death.
Your post sent me straight to the 2 of them that only get used occasionally,, to check them.
They are both in excellent condition and the same as they were the last time I checked.

Just by looking at your posted pic,,, I would never even attempt to put a single round down that barrel.
It looks like an old and decayed sewer pipe.

I would advise you pack it up, (with your other Howa's,, and make the 2hr drive with them, to show the "store" in person.
There would have to be (surely) a definite manufacture issue with that one barrel in particular.

Thanks mate, I do like the Howa rifles, and have never had any trouble with the ones ive owned before this.
Just to be clear, I never fired any rounds through the barrel when in this condition in the photo.
It was uncovered during my pre-hunt checking process that I have always done, and it blew me away how dirty it was.

[Die Judicii]

And, the offered advice from the "store" is only stalling the inevitable.
Anyone with only half a brain knows that corrosion of that kind can only exist with a supply of oxygen.
So blocking the barrel only starves it of oxygen and prevents/slows it down,,,, but does nothing to address the initial problem.

DEMAND A NEW RIFLE.

[Damo300]

Id be returning that to the shop.
That does not look good at all, and to happen so quickly.

You're not using that bore cleaning solution are you?

I have only used the bore cleaner a week ago, its the Hoppes one.
This Howa was bought from the big shop in Margate, and I'm not confident they would be interested in doing anything for me.
Its also nearly 2 hour drive for me to get there.

Has anyone had contact with Howa directly?
Would that be worth trying?

Cheers
Jay

Highly unlikely the Hoppe's is the issue.
SDS reveals nothing out of the ordinary.

https://assets.unilogcorp.com/187/ITEM/DOC/HOPPES_102274354_SDS.pdf

Can see the proprietary items listed but that's their secrete sauce, and I'm pretty sure non toxic therefore identity can be protected.

What was used on the first clean?

The fact you have 2 other rifles of the same breed sitting there, which I am going to assume have been cared for the same way, with the same ingredients, one can assume it's something isolated to this rifle.

And the shop won't help you with a new rifle?
I'd be in there demanding it be sent back to howa, or find a shop that will help you.

There are plenty of options if you cannot get help, but they're gonna cost you.

HAHA i would like to demand a new replacement, but I don't expect that approach would work in that shop.
They actually advised me to plug the bore and see if the substance returns, so thats what ill do for now.
I'll do the right thing and see what happens after another week

Cheers
Jay

I'd kindly suggest back that they stick the plug in their gob and drop the rifle back to them.

Ask to speak to the big boss, go up the chain, even email howa themselves and tell them how you're being treated.
By the sounds of it, howa may have a problem here.

Otherwise,if you're prepared to take the hit, replace the barrel, or if you're in Qld, like for like swap it for another 223.

[dirtjay]

I'd kindly suggest back that they stick the plug in their gob and drop the rifle back to them.

Ask to speak to the big boss, go up the chain, even email howa themselves and tell them how you're being treated.
By the sounds of it, howa may have a problem here.

Otherwise,if you're prepared to take the hit, replace the barrel, or if you're in Qld, like for like swap it for another 223.[/quote]


Haha - Yeah it might come to that mate.
I will contact Howa about this, it'll be interesting in what they have to say.
I think if i get a helpful response from Howa, that could be good leverage at the store.

[dirtjay]

And, the offered advice from the "store" is only stalling the inevitable.
Anyone with only half a brain knows that corrosion of that kind can only exist with a supply of oxygen.
So blocking the barrel only starves it of oxygen and prevents/slows it down,,,, but does nothing to address the initial problem.

DEMAND A NEW RIFLE.

I figured as much myself, remove the oxygen - it will slow the effect.
Who plugs their rifles anyway?
Compared to the other rifles of the same brand, they are in fine condition.

[deye243]

A friend of mine in Queensland bought a Howa from that particular shop and it would not shoot for s*** did his own investigation on why did the usual things action screws bedding making sure the barrels clean and then he checked the Crown and found this

Screenshot_20261022_155947_Gallery.jpg (460.74 KiB) Viewed 12 times

the cottonbud is there there for the reflective white to show the damage he took it back to the shop and explained it doesn't group then showed them the damage obviously a factory fault they happily gave him another one bit of a mug he never checked it before he left got home set it all up in the stock putting scope on and thought maybe i better check it guess what same problem so back to the shop they quite literally yelled at him and told him to stop looking at the rifling