Building a Mauser stalking rifle - what action?

[Wapiti]

Hi to all the custom rifle tinkerers out there.
Say I wanted to build a custom mauser-actioned rifle for animal hunting.
And knowing that I don't really live near gunshops, so visiting retail shops is difficult and would take a lot of time.
I've never been interested in Used Guns... I looked a few times but all I see are fuzzy pics and bubba's tactical weekend projects.
Realistically, what is a good (good enough, with all the features that made original Mausers great) brand of action?
Any steel work needed is nothing I'm scared of.
I really don't think I'd like an ex-mil action that's rough and the bolt wobbles around, or with nazi crests and stuff stamped in.
What about a commercial action?
Which brands, something like a Parker Hale, or a commercial FN? I seem to remember they weren't all that great, or had dropped some of the Mauser features internally.

Also, what about walnut stocks? Are there makers who do 99% fit stocks?
I'm a steel bloke, I love nice wood though, but you can't weld it so I'm scared of it.

The calibre is going to be something that works out here. I'm not at all interested in shooting camels and buffalo, I'd rather something I can shoot any day I might have time.

I really would like as many opinions as possible, even if you personally haven't made one up, your ideas are welcome and everything is worth considering.

[No1Mk3]

Hatcher stocks, Parker Hale, Zastava, Mauser-Werke, FN Supreme, Doumoulin (pricey) Winchester 70, Rem 700. Lot of choices.
PS: Forgot the Spanish Santa BArbara action despit detractors the modern Santa Barbara have been used to make some very nice rifles,
Husqvarna Large Ring 640 are actually built on FN actions,

[bigrich]

Hi to all the custom rifle tinkerers out there.
Say I wanted to build a custom mauser-actioned rifle for animal hunting.
And knowing that I don't really live near gunshops, so visiting retail shops is difficult and would take a lot of time.
I've never been interested in Used Guns... I looked a few times but all I see are fuzzy pics and bubba's tactical weekend projects.
Realistically, what is a good (good enough, with all the features that made original Mausers great) brand of action?
Any steel work needed is nothing I'm scared of.
I really don't think I'd like an ex-mil action that's rough and the bolt wobbles around, or with nazi crests and stuff stamped in.
What about a commercial action?
Which brands, something like a Parker Hale, or a commercial FN? I seem to remember they weren't all that great, or had dropped some of the Mauser features internally.

Also, what about walnut stocks? Are there makers who do 99% fit stocks?
I'm a steel bloke, I love nice wood though, but you can't weld it so I'm scared of it.

The calibre is going to be something that works out here. I'm not at all interested in shooting camels and buffalo, I'd rather something I can shoot any day I might have time.

I really would like as many opinions as possible, even if you personally haven't made one up, your ideas are welcome and everything is worth considering.

yeah, geez mate , that's a really open ended question . i could be on here for days . if i had the choice , i think commercial FN is the pick of them , that's what my old musgrave is . brno vz24's are held in high regard , early parker hale actions are actually recycled german rifles , thumb notch in left side of action and what's left of the stripper clip housing are the give away . later ones are spanish made, but decent quality . later again , "midland" actions were redesigned around using up heaps of springfeild 1903 bolts they had . i've heard they're not that great . stocks aren't always interchangeable , but a lot are . there's been so many variations and export contract models of mauser it's mind boggling . there's some really nice second hand custom mausers that pop up , but some are too nice to be hunting rifles IMHO . the other thing about mauser actions is they are a little shorter than american "standard" actions which can limit seating length on some stuff . 3.330 " is the max of my 98's mag box , as opposed to 3.4" which is used for american rifles . i think the first thing to do is decide on what calibres are practical for your uses , that are a good fit in a 98 action . the cost of 7x57 , 8x57 brass and it's availability are worth considering compared to say 30-06 . most people these days build a mauser cause they want a old school custom . which means dealing with gunsmiths . i spoke to jim kent last friday , he's open for business , smithfeild-mundoey road . he's loving it , test fires guns whenever, deer walking through his place

my musgrave WAS going to be rebarreled in 30-06 , but when a new 338 barrel popped up it gave me a reason for a medium bore for competition and hunting use . 30-06 was my choice in a 98 action based on cost and being practical , no cost consideration a 7x57 . a 35 whelen would be interesting however ...

[Wapiti]

IShiza, there a can of worms alright.
I do think I want a real Mauser action, I will do some research on what the unbroached collar means, if I got that right, and the feature where when the bolt is opened, the extractor is cammed into the shell harder. If I got that right too. Probably didn't.
It would be the nostalgia of owning a pure Mauser type action, to me they have always been clunky things where the bolt wobbles an inch in all directions when is open fully... but that's the pure reliability of it isn't it? The ability to work in the mud and dirt?
Using your 338-06 was an eye-opener Rich. I liked it.

Hatcher stocks, Parker Hale, Zastava, Mauser-Werke, FN Supreme, Doumoulin (pricey) Winchester 70, Rem 700. Lot of choices.
PS: Forgot the Spanish Santa BArbara action despit detractors the modern Santa Barbara have been used to make some very nice rifles,
Husqvarna Large Ring 640 are actually built on FN actions,

Big list there mate. I'm none the wiser.

[quote="bigrich]

yeah, geez mate , that's a really open ended question . i could be on here for days . if i had the choice , i think commercial FN is the pick of them , that's what my old musgrave is . brno vz24's are held in high regard , early parker hale actions are actually recycled german rifles , thumb notch in left side of action and what's left of the stripper clip housing are the give away . later ones are spanish made, but decent quality . later again , "midland" actions were redesigned around using up heaps of springfeild 1903 bolts they had . i've heard they're not that great . stocks aren't always interchangeable , but a lot are . there's been so many variations and export contract models of mauser it's mind boggling . there's some really nice second hand custom mausers that pop up , but some are too nice to be hunting rifles IMHO . the other thing about mauser actions is they are a little shorter than american "standard" actions which can limit seating length on some stuff . 3.330 " is the max of my 98's mag box , as opposed to 3.4" which is used for american rifles . i think the first thing to do is decide on what calibres are practical for your uses , that are a good fit in a 98 action . the cost of 7x57 , 8x57 brass and it's availability are worth considering compared to say 30-06 . most people these days build a mauser cause they want a old school custom . which means dealing with gunsmiths . i spoke to jim kent last friday , he's open for business , smithfeild-mundoey road . he's loving it , test fires guns whenever, deer walking through his place

my musgrave WAS going to be rebarreled in 30-06 , but when a new 338 barrel popped up it gave me a reason for a medium bore for competition and hunting use . 30-06 was my choice in a 98 action based on cost and being practical , no cost consideration a 7x57 . a 35 whelen would be interesting however ... [/quote]

Far out mate, that's a lot on info. There's a lifetime of knowledge there.

[bigpete]

I think,for cartridges, a nice 7x57 would suit nicely

[fussy]

What I have, is a Mauser 96 with 2 barrels:
unscrew the 6.5x55 and screw in the 9x57.

Cocks on closing, so you can have a round chambered then close silently when stalking (don't trust safety, even on the brilliant Mauser).

Wooden stock, but made by a great gunsmith in his heyday.

[Wapiti]

What started all this was, two things -
I keep seeing the ads for Rogby's on the Pro-tactical emails, and although I'll never have one I love the look of the Highland Stalkers etc, in 7x57, the classic Red deer stalking cartridge.
The stock, the wood... the polished metal. Just functional simplicity?

AND _ I was talking about this to a mate and he was helping me with fencing here, today he's brought this original old '98 Parker Hale .308 Mauser (what is it with me and 308's?) to show me. Every rifle he has is battered and busted from farm use, tools not toys eh? Except this one which is a complete surprise.

This one does not have the cut out for a charger guide/stripper clip, it has the steel hinged floorplate with the release in front of the trigger, safety is a two position side job, not on the cocking piece.
It has Parker Hale stamped neatly on the barrel, fold down steel open sights and cal. 308W stamped also. There are no markings on the action except for the serial number.
It has this mirror polish blue and is unmarked, which for out here is unusual.

Downsides - the stock is this sprayed on shiny thick clear Urethane reddish colour, pretty much unmarked, but looks tacky. Under it I can see real nice grain, maybe a hit with thick paint stripper and some Danish oil.
The red recoil pad is old, cracked and hard.
The grip cap and buttpad have white spacers, which look like a Gold Coast rich housewife's tacky injected lips.
It has a nice palmswell under the thick clear Urethans, wich is also all over the checkering, which looks cut by hand and is a bit messy but diamonds are all there.
Scope is an unbranded Chinaman 3-9x40 and is hideous to look through, so I'll donate it to someone I don't like and confuse them.
The 2-piece mounts are Weaver type aluminium bases, and the rings are cheap alloy crap, so the whole lot there has to go. A hit of hard wind will cause the need for a re-zero.
Weaver bases on a classic sporter is hideous.
Turn-in steel rings will be needed.

What do youse reckon as the basis for a nicely stocked custom job? If I can get a nice stock, or the one here looks OK with the finish off it, which I doubt. No classic calibre here though, 308 does every job I ever need, but certainly there's no mystique there,
Asking price is $300 with a gun bag?

I would post a pic of it as-is, but it's not mine (yet?)

[bigrich]

Wapati, there’s a nice 7x57 on usedguns I think, and rebel has a beautiful 7x57 with all the bells and whistles, including a win 70 safety. It’s not cheap, but would cost a lot more to build. Just an idea. They have a couple of others as well

[bigpete]

Just buy a rigby
You only live once

[bigrich]

The rifle you described wapiti is an early Santa Barbara Spanish commercial action made for Parker hale. They are a good action and have an adjustable trigger. They are hard to find with the hinged steel floor plate, most are cast ally. If you’re happy with it grab it. Check how it feeds, my FN didn’t like feeding the short 308 cartridge. Can’t really go wrong for $300, with a gun bag too

[Wapiti]

Wapati, there’s a nice 7x57 on usedguns I think, and rebel has a beautiful 7x57 with all the bells and whistles, including a win 70 safety. It’s not cheap, but would cost a lot more to build. Just an idea. They have a couple of others as well

How can I look it over myself mate, before I buy? I'm pretty sure I've seen some hell online where brokering dealers just plain lie, and photos are AI touched up. I think it's essential to look it over before committing any money or is that just not how it works?
Like, Excellent bore, but their idea of Excellent is not the same...

Just buy a rigby
You only live once

Yes mate I'd love one. But instead we can buy a years stock breeding supplements. Boring huh.

The rifle you described wapiti is an early Santa Barbara Spanish commercial action made for Parker hale. They are a good action and have an adjustable trigger. They are hard to find with the hinged steel floor plate, most are cast ally. If you’re happy with it grab it. Check how it feeds, my FN didn’t like feeding the short 308 cartridge. Can’t really go wrong for $300, with a gun bag too

I looked online what the "C" collar was, a cone in the action where a pure Mauser it's only broached for the extractor. So it looks like a cut out at 3 o'clock.
The commercial ones mostly have the cut out at 9 o'clock as well to cut time from machining. This one has the two cut outs.
Yes the trigger is excellent, the safety clicks very positively on/off, it looks near new. Even the barrel has not been floated.
I have a Mauser 98 steel bridge mount, blued steel, I might see if the hole centres are the same.

[Wapiti]

Holy moly, the scope bases have these tiny stamped in "Parker Hale England" words under the rings.

[perentie]

My very first rifle I saved up for and bought was a Parker Hale Safari Deluxe in .308. That was back in the 60,s in NZ before I came to Oz. Yes a Mauser action but I cant describe it or the floor plates etc. Lovely rifle as all I used before were borrowed jungle carbines. Dont know what happened to it, guess my brother stole it as I just bought my old winchester 92 in 44-40 over with me. My Mountain Mule back pack went in luggage but the carbine went on board the old Electra in the overhead locker. No problems then, no passport either. Buy your ticket and go. Best thing I ever did.

Keith

[bigrich]

Holy moly, the scope bases have these tiny stamped in "Parker Hale England" words under the rings.

mate , it sounds like you could borrow that parker hale , put a scope on it and see how it works and feels for you . there's been so many different types of mauser 98's made it mind boggling . there's a few books out on mauser that look like a phone book . building your own needs to be assessed on a individual basis relative to the donor rifle . you've got the mauser made mauser from obendorf , steyr , BRNO , radom in poland , recycled ones from parker hale before the santa barbarra made actions , and many others . building a custom from scratch could get VERY expensive . occasionally i've seen some bargains , old FN factory built sporters from the 60's pop up from time to time. second hand is a lucky dip for sure .

your choice in calibre is also a determining factor with a mauser action . in my FN 308 rounds fed at a real angle into the chamber , being really "clunky" in it's feed . that's part of the reason i decided to rebarrel it . i removed the spacer at the back of the magazine and swapped out the short FN factory follower for a second hand full length follower i got from rebel . i tried the feed/pick up out of the mag with dummy 30-06 and 7x57 rounds and it was so much smoother . that's what convinced me to rebarrel this particular rifle to a longer case than 308 . if the old parker hale tests out really good i'd probably go with that . feed problems in mausers can usually be traced to tired mag follower spring. i replaced mine since i saw you last and it's feeding is perfect now .

you've opened a real can of worms mate . so many variables

[Wapiti]

Would this suit?

PH1.jpg (694.64 KiB) Viewed 285 times

Stock is a bit tacky. It does have a couple of through-bolts.
The hideous 3-9x scope has been rmoved so i can see of the steel Hillver mount has the same screw-hole spacings. It has !!!!
The little bases on it here are the Parker Hale ones and are aluminium. Not acceptable.

PH2.jpg (681.8 KiB) Viewed 285 times

Honestly, the calibre doesn't matter.

I can see some bolt knob checkering happening, and another stock in the minimalist form.
Long, open pistol grip for the ultimate in pointability.

[Wapiti]

your choice in calibre is also a determining factor with a mauser action . in my FN 308 rounds fed at a real angle into the chamber , being really "clunky" in it's feed . that's part of the reason i decided to rebarrel it . i removed the spacer at the back of the magazine and swapped out the short FN factory follower for a second hand full length follower i got from rebel . i tried the feed/pick up out of the mag with dummy 30-06 and 7x57 rounds and it was so much smoother . that's what convinced me to rebarrel this particular rifle to a longer case than 308 . if the old parker hale tests out really good i'd probably go with that . feed problems in mausers can usually be traced to tired mag follower spring. i replaced mine since i saw you last and it's feeding is perfect now .
you've opened a real can of worms mate . so many variables

So Rich I loaded 5 cartridges in the magazine (Really long-seated FLS handloads for another 308 here), and they all cycled super-smooth.
FMD, there is about 10mm in front of the tips of these long Tipped-GameKing's. So no dramas long-seating in the lands and still fit in the mag with room to spare. Amazing.
There is no spacer in there.
It looks like a short action, but I reckon 30-06 would fit in the mag. The ejection port is quite small, you click in the cartridges and slide them back under the bridge.
I tried cycling the cartridges slow, like I was pampering it at a target shoot, then put them in again and rammed them through like one of my mates scrubbers was up me. No dramas, at least with the long pointed green tipped projectiles.

What do I do.
Anyway, it left here before, me mate is coming back to drop something off Thursday so I have time to think. Legally I don't think I can borrow a rifle for a few days can I ?? He doesn't use it, ever.

[bigrich]

your choice in calibre is also a determining factor with a mauser action . in my FN 308 rounds fed at a real angle into the chamber , being really "clunky" in it's feed . that's part of the reason i decided to rebarrel it . i removed the spacer at the back of the magazine and swapped out the short FN factory follower for a second hand full length follower i got from rebel . i tried the feed/pick up out of the mag with dummy 30-06 and 7x57 rounds and it was so much smoother . that's what convinced me to rebarrel this particular rifle to a longer case than 308 . if the old parker hale tests out really good i'd probably go with that . feed problems in mausers can usually be traced to tired mag follower spring. i replaced mine since i saw you last and it's feeding is perfect now .
you've opened a real can of worms mate . so many variables

So Rich I loaded 5 cartridges in the magazine (Really long-seated FLS handloads for another 308 here), and they all cycled super-smooth.
FMD, there is about 10mm in front of the tips of these long Tipped-GameKing's. So no dramas long-seating in the lands and still fit in the mag with room to spare. Amazing.
There is no spacer in there.
It looks like a short action, but I reckon 30-06 would fit in the mag. The ejection port is quite small, you click in the cartridges and slide them back under the bridge.
I tried cycling the cartridges slow, like I was pampering it at a target shoot, then put them in again and rammed them through like one of my mates scrubbers was up me. No dramas, at least with the long pointed green tipped projectiles.

What do I do.
Anyway, it left here before, me mate is coming back to drop something off Thursday so I have time to think. Legally I don't think I can borrow a rifle for a few days can I ?? He doesn't use it, ever.

AFAIK it's legal for you to borrow your mates rifle , so long as you have the correct license the santa barbarra spanish action is the same length as 98 actions go , so yes , you should be able to fit a 30-06 based calibre in it . it won't chamber naturally , but try a 30-06 cartridge and see how it picks up out of the mag just to check . clicking in the cartridges under the rear bridge is normal for a 98 .

smoothest, most positive CRF i've ever seen or experienced is the M17 , or model of 1917 as they're also known, in 30-06. great over engineered action , heavy , long mag , lots of big game rifles were built on these , including weatherby and even rigby i think, back in the day. but the reason they're not more popular is the length of the receiver makes it difficult to get scope eye relief IMHO . this is why 98's became popular with american gun smiths post war , lighter shorter action. and they were plentiful and cheap . i'm digressing again

if it tests out okay , and your happy with it , that parker hale for $300 sounds like a good deal . i'm not certain , but at least some 98 parts should interchange with this action as well . you should be able to rebarrel it to just about anything if you wish . give jim kent a ring , he's a wealth of knowledge and doesn't mind a chat . he'll know if there's any pitfalls with the parker hale action . mondays , thursdays and friday he answers the phone , other days he concentrates on his work . the best 98 action i've heard of is the BRNO made VZ24 . tight machining , very well made as it was produced between wars . nick harvey had a few 98's built on this action . the other way to go would be to find the best unmodified 1950's military FN in 30-06 and start with a blank canvas . but it wouldn't be cheap by the time you get all the custom gunsmithing done and a stock made . the 7x57 vz24 for sale at rebel for $3600 would cost about 4-5k to build at a guess . the old parker hale sounds like great value at $300 by comparison

[Wapiti]

Thanks Rich, and to all who contributed.

Reading between the lines and fair enough too, something like this hasn't the mystique of a custom build, but most of that is white noise to me. It is a Mauser, and back in the day when Kmart sold cheap push-feed Winchester '70's and Bentley 8-shotters, they were an above-average regarded rifle, with the others like Rem 700 etc up the top. The big guy, see?
I am impressed by how slender and light this rifle is, and now smooth it is for one without any use. What I am impressed with is the usual sloppy Mauser bolt, made that way for the mud and crud of the wars back then and keep operating - is less sloppy when fully open than I am used to.
Should I compare it to the beautifully glass smooth Sako bolt, or the hardly-wobbles-at-all Rem 700 bolt? Yes I can't help myself.

The cartridge it's chambered in- well... that's a big wind-up most of the time. Lets just say, I could chase up a custom stock, nice red English butt pad, oil finish etc, get some nice steel polished scope mounts and whack on a 1-6x broken scope, and hand it over to someone, and the calibre on the barrel will be what some look for first - strange IMHO. It's just a number, that number is important only to the bloke using it to bring home meat.

That Brno VZ24 has always been the dream to find and use, but everyone is chasing them. I've had a few big Brno 602's, and they are workmanship-wise (machining finish and polish) rough as a Victorian road compared to this Parker Hale - yet the old English rifle is down the scale in the eyes of everyone I read about.
Weird, huh?

[bigrich]

From what I can remember, back I the day, the working man who wanted a rigby but couldn’t afford one bought a Parker hale. The English rifle above that in terms of Qaulity was the BSA royal

[Wapiti]

Hmmmm... I found an unused VX1 3-9x40 which is just the ticket for the old blued Hillver bridgemount...
But also... a VX3i 2.5-8x36 left over from another project... both 25mm tubes - perfect.
No giant Coke bottles allowed.
I know, Richard my man, you would pick the latter to stay in keeping with the light, small, fast-pointing package?

[bigrich]

Hmmmm... I found an unused VX1 3-9x40 which is just the ticket for the old blued Hillver bridgemount...
But also... a VX3i 2.5-8x36 left over from another project... both 25mm tubes - perfect.
No giant Coke bottles allowed.
I know, Richard my man, you would pick the latter to stay in keeping with the light, small, fast-pointing package?

absolutely , but last time i looked, cleaver have a vx3 1.5-5 for $599 in the used section . just sayin' can't believe it's been on there for 2 weeks . these things normally sell fast . sign of the times i think

vx3 2.5-8 is what i use on my 308 tikka . never found myself wanting anything else for all hunting situations

[Wapiti]

Hmmmm... I found an unused VX1 3-9x40 which is just the ticket for the old blued Hillver bridgemount...
But also... a VX3i 2.5-8x36 left over from another project... both 25mm tubes - perfect.
No giant Coke bottles allowed.
I know, Richard my man, you would pick the latter to stay in keeping with the light, small, fast-pointing package?

absolutely , but last time i looked, cleaver have a vx3 1.5-5 for $599 in the used section . just sayin' can't believe it's been on there for 2 weeks . these things normally sell fast . sign of the times i think

vx3 2.5-8 is what i use on my 308 tikka . never found myself wanting anything else for all hunting situations

Thanks Rich should have known you have a nose like a bloodhound. I'll check it out.
Edit: was still there, isn't now ... and 25mm tube.

[bigrich]

Good to hear it’s gone to a good home. I was looking for one for ages, ended up buying a brand new vx3 HD and getting the CDS turret changed out for a standard turret. Fitted it to my 338-06 Mauser, all happy, then I saw that second hand early vx3 for $599. Bloody figures …

[Wapiti]

Well mate I would've rather had one of the 1.5-6x 20 that were sold for awhile. 25mm tube.
Maybe I got the low end wrong but they had a 6x. Never mind.

The VX3 is a bombproof thing, I don't use the uncockable drop dial from the VX3HD on a hunting rifle, and for proper LR stuff I'll go the real tactical turrets that are on the MK4 and NXS's. But they are not hunting rifles.
I do appreciate the improvements of each generation optically though.
The reason I like Leupolds is that they have all that brightness and toughness in a slender, lighter package.
Top end of the tree is the Swarovskis but they are larger in stature, and can make a nice hunter top heavy. A bigger statured rifle, fine, but not a light slender thing.

When I swap from a newer set up with a VX3HD on top, to an older set up with a superseded VX2 or 3, It's like I'm looking through the same things. It's only when it's really dull day going on dark, that I could tell a difference. But not ever enough to slow or blow a shot.

I appreciate you letting me know.

Now all we have to discuss is the cartridge and why.

[bigrich]

Well mate I would've rather had one of the 1.5-6x 20 that were sold for awhile. 25mm tube.
Maybe I got the low end wrong but they had a 6x. Never mind.

The VX3 is a bombproof thing, I don't use the uncockable drop dial from the VX3HD on a hunting rifle, and for proper LR stuff I'll go the real tactical turrets that are on the MK4 and NXS's. But they are not hunting rifles.
I do appreciate the improvements of each generation optically though.
The reason I like Leupolds is that they have all that brightness and toughness in a slender, lighter package.
Top end of the tree is the Swarovskis but they are larger in stature, and can make a nice hunter top heavy. A bigger statured rifle, fine, but not a light slender thing.

When I swap from a newer set up with a VX3HD on top, to an older set up with a superseded VX2 or 3, It's like I'm looking through the same things. It's only when it's really dull day going on dark, that I could tell a difference. But not ever enough to slow or blow a shot.

I appreciate you letting me know.

Now all we have to discuss is the cartridge and why.

No worries mate. As to which cartridge, from my perspective brass availability with regards to older cartridges like 7x57, and the intended use on game weights would be my concern. As the Parker hale is already in 308 , you could leave it alone. I’ve heard British rifles from the 50’s and 60’s could have some really good accurate barrels . I’d prefer a 7x57 myself for the history, and check out uncle nick’s load data for modern actions . It’s quite an efficient cartridge with good energy.
From a practical perspective, 270 if the Col is okay, 30-06 is never a bad choice, or 338-06, 35 whelen if you’re hunting larger game and want to have some fun. I know from experience 9.3x62 is an adequate buffalo round, but I can’t see you coming across too many of those in your neck of the woods. Cheers

[straightshooter]

bigrich
You seem to be au fait with M98's so some of this may be of interest.
The so called Santa Barbara action got it's designation as such because the US importer was located in Santa Barbara, California. It was simply a commercial M98 action made in Spain.
PH receivers sourced from Spain had an S stamped on the left side of the tang. I am given to understand that receivers sourced from Zastava had a J stamped on the left side of the tang. I have never seen one but I have a PH rifle and a PH action that have whatever was stamped on the tang ground off. Possibly because Yugoslavia wasn't in the EU common market at the time. I don't know if PH forged their own bolts or reworked supplied bare bolts to conform to the PH pattern.
How to tell if a PH action is a keeper or any other M98 for that matter?
Try dry firing the rifle and watch closely what happens with the bolt handle when the trigger is pulled.
If the bolt knob barely moves then likely with a decent barrel that rifle will shoot accurately. If the bolt knob visibly moves up or down or in both directions, depending on the degree, then that rifle might have accuracy issues. The problem can be confirmed by dry firing over a front rest and a rear bag and watching how much and where the cross hair moves upon repeated dry firing.
A PH 1200 deluxe 25-06 I owned in the 70's was a shocker in that regard and never managed better than 4" at a 100 yards so the pigs and goats out west in the open country, where a 25-06 would be useful, were fairly safe.
The issue with the C collar being broached on the left side weakening the action is a bit of a nothingburger as the collar itself contibutes little to action strength. The real value of the C collar is that it allows the barrel tenon to be screwed in, in compression, provided there is at least 1 thou clearance to the receiver front.
With PH there is one aspect of the "belt and braces" safety system in the M98 that is missing. That is the provision for the firing pin breaking before the bolt is fully locked. This would have to be an extremely rare occurrence so PH had a production cost saving in not providing the correctly shaped stop on the firing pin.

[bigrich]

bigrich
You seem to be au fait with M98's so some of this may be of interest.
The so called Santa Barbara action got it's designation as such because the US importer was located in Santa Barbara, California. It was simply a commercial M98 action made in Spain.
PH receivers sourced from Spain had an S stamped on the left side of the tang. I am given to understand that receivers sourced from Zastava had a J stamped on the left side of the tang. I have never seen one but I have a PH rifle and a PH action that have whatever was stamped on the tang ground off. Possibly because Yugoslavia wasn't in the EU common market at the time. I don't know if PH forged their own bolts or reworked supplied bare bolts to conform to the PH pattern.
How to tell if a PH action is a keeper or any other M98 for that matter?
Try dry firing the rifle and watch closely what happens with the bolt handle when the trigger is pulled.
If the bolt knob barely moves then likely with a decent barrel that rifle will shoot accurately. If the bolt knob visibly moves up or down or in both directions, depending on the degree, then that rifle might have accuracy issues. The problem can be confirmed by dry firing over a front rest and a rear bag and watching how much and where the cross hair moves upon repeated dry firing.
A PH 1200 deluxe 25-06 I owned in the 70's was a shocker in that regard and never managed better than 4" at a 100 yards so the pigs and goats out west in the open country, where a 25-06 would be useful, were fairly safe.
The issue with the C collar being broached on the left side weakening the action is a bit of a nothingburger as the collar itself contibutes little to action strength. The real value of the C collar is that it allows the barrel tenon to be screwed in, in compression, provided there is at least 1 thou clearance to the receiver front.
With PH there is one aspect of the "belt and braces" safety system in the M98 that is missing. That is the provision for the firing pin breaking before the bolt is fully locked. This would have to be an extremely rare occurrence so PH had a production cost saving in not providing the correctly shaped stop on the firing pin.

hey mate , thanks for the info , lots of interesting stuff . i didn't know about how the "santa barbarra" action name came into being . it sounds spanish , but considering california was originally settled by the spanish it's a easy mistake i guess . post WW2 was a interesting time with english sporting rifle actions sourced from numerous suppliers over the years . parker hale , churchill and and others recycled military mausers of varying makes initially before using zastava, or in some cases , commercial FN actions . they used to import the actions and fit their own stocks in the UK . there was another maker starting with a "W" i can't remember at the moment. i actually owned a M17 in 30-06 english sporter of which i've only seen one other . a big military collector/dealer west of me reckoned he'd never seen one which says something as he dealt in a lot of stuff over the years . the bolt moving when dry fired is a interesting thing as a accuracy indicator . i remember my smith squaring my receiver and telling me that the barrel headspaces of the inside of the receiver rather than the receiver face and this is where stuff ups occur . i could have some aspect of that wrong so take it with a grain of salt it would be something correctable i reckon . with any manufactured product there is the possibility of a dud , and just because a action is a "98" doesn't make it immune .

the amount of variations in the design and different companies who made them under license is a minefield for the custom rifle builder . personally if i was looking to do a custom build i'd like to start with one of the higher quality contract rifles like a 1909 argentine , or at least a early 50's FN milsurp . my own FN commercial is one that was put together by south african gunsmith bennie musgrave . inside the original recoil pad he wrote his name and he made it in 1967 . should be a quality piece right ? shame when they drilled and tapped it for scope mounts they didn't get the holes straight i have a set of leupold windage adjustable scope bases to correct this . no accounting for human error hey ?

[Wapiti]

Hey Rich, I might just put in a PTA on this one.
The cartridge will do what I want it for as good as any, I won't need any more reloading gear, and all I might do is have a look for a 90% finished real piece of walnut.

A few years ago I was in Cleavers, and they had this Winchester 308 ammo loaded with 180gn Woodleighs, meant for scrub cattle etc. On some ridiculous clear-out special after Winchester stopped production in Aus and was clearing out the factory's inventory.
That's when we got a few cases of 5000 PowerPoint's and Subs of 40 and 42gn.
I'm really keen to see how this thing shoots this ammo, actually.

[bigrich]

Hey Rich, I might just put in a PTA on this one.
The cartridge will do what I want it for as good as any, I won't need any more reloading gear, and all I might do is have a look for a 90% finished real piece of walnut.

A few years ago I was in Cleavers, and they had this Winchester 308 ammo loaded with 180gn Woodleighs, meant for scrub cattle etc. On some ridiculous clear-out special after Winchester stopped production in Aus and was clearing out the factory's inventory.
That's when we got a few cases of 5000 PowerPoint's and Subs of 40 and 42gn.
I'm really keen to see how this thing shoots this ammo, actually.

i'd get a scope on it and put it through it's paces before putting in a PTA . it's not often you get to "test drive" a rifle . at the very least you'll find out if it's got any quirks . if it's a older built 308 , it may have a 12 twist barrel which may or may not like 180gn ammo . try before you buy mate

[Wapiti]

Great might idea, although might be awhile, I'm just on a holiday in St Vincent's Memorial after correcting that bloody motor bike stack you know about