Finally bought a Winchester....

[in2anity]

You can up it to 4.5 grains,(slowly), but if the chamber is slightly loose, it will split necks, especially starline brass. ( All brass is thin necked, so go easy when sizing, it is very easy to bugger cases, ask me how I know. )

Had my first causalty only last night - going too fast with the expander damaged the neck, so down to 99 cases already Slow and steady seems the go. Dunno whether you were following a while back Gamerancher - but I also picked up a 2006 built, short-run, 20" JM 1894CB in 32H&R. I much prefer working with 32H&R brass: straight-walled (carbide), thicker than the 32-20. And it is insanely accurate benched with optics - easily sub 1" at 50m, but that shorter sight radius and the williams receiver forward of the hammer makes it more challenging to use (particularly offhand). You were bang on with your 24" barrel/tang recommendation - really does make silhouette shooting that much easier. Meanwhile, my Chiappa 1892 clone is a piece of junk - although this could partly be to do with over-use (from cowboy action I'm guessing).

[Gamerancher]

I have seen far too many rifles ruined by "slicking" by some bozo for use in cowboy action, wouldn't go near one that has been used in that sport.

[in2anity]

I have seen far too many rifles ruined by "slicking" by some bozo for use in cowboy action, wouldn't go near one that has been used in that sport.

Funny yu say that - the chiappa was originally listed as having been "slicked" - should have rung alarm bells then and there. Oh well live and learn.

[Gwion]

I have seen far too many rifles ruined by "slicking" by some bozo for use in cowboy action, wouldn't go near one that has been used in that sport.

What thge hell is 'slicking' and how does it wreck a gun???

[in2anity]

I have seen far too many rifles ruined by "slicking" by some bozo for use in cowboy action, wouldn't go near one that has been used in that sport.

What thge hell is 'slicking' and how does it wreck a gun???

They aggressively polish up the internals and soften the springs to increase cyclic rate - this comes at the price of an overall looser action - good for rapid fire, close range, not so good for preservation of the rifle

[bladeracer]

I have seen far too many rifles ruined by "slicking" by some bozo for use in cowboy action, wouldn't go near one that has been used in that sport.

What thge hell is 'slicking' and how does it wreck a gun???

Taking all the friction and tension out of it so the action flops about like it's knackered. Can also include short-throw kits, lightened springs and lightened parts. The Uberti 66 I bought from a CA shooter, but they hadn't even cleaned it, let alone modified it. As it's supposed to be a display sport of the "cowboy" era I can't see why such ridiculous modifications have ever been allowed into it.

[Blutius Maximus]

in2anity, how have you found that fold down peep? In particular, when firing and when carrying.
Is it awkward as your hand grips the rifle and you fire or when manipulating the hammer? I guess with the low recoil it probably doesn't slam backwards into the webbing of your hand.

I have a Winchester 30-30 (top eject) and am considering getting a peep to improve accuracy.
It's 40yrs old in 'as new' condition, so mounting one similar to yours would mean drilling a second hole which I'm reluctant to do if it may end up annoying me so much that I remove it anyway.

I'm also considering a receiver mounted peep as an alternative, but the slightly longer sight radius of the fold down tang mounted peep is attractive.
I was tossing around the idea of the tang fold down for longer shots, and having a fold down (think Ruger style) forward of the receiver in place of the semi-buckhorn for close shots.

I'll just bump this post. When I originally made it, I was still needing mod approval for posts so it was hidden for a few days.

[Wm.Traynor]

Having the peep close to the eye gives greater depth of focus, making it easier to see the fore sight and target clearly. For this reason a tang mounted sight is better suited to target shooting as long as the aperture is around 0.040" or 1mm.

[in2anity]

in2anity, how have you found that fold down peep? In particular, when firing and when carrying.
Is it awkward as your hand grips the rifle and you fire or when manipulating the hammer? I guess with the low recoil it probably doesn't slam backwards into the webbing of your hand.

I have a Winchester 30-30 (top eject) and am considering getting a peep to improve accuracy.
It's 40yrs old in 'as new' condition, so mounting one similar to yours would mean drilling a second hole which I'm reluctant to do if it may end up annoying me so much that I remove it anyway.

I'm also considering a receiver mounted peep as an alternative, but the slightly longer sight radius of the fold down tang mounted peep is attractive.
I was tossing around the idea of the tang fold down for longer shots, and having a fold down (think Ruger style) forward of the receiver in place of the semi-buckhorn for close shots.

I'll just bump this post. When I originally made it, I was still needing mod approval for posts so it was hidden for a few days.

Having it close to the eye means you can get away with a tiny arpeture. Like you said a tang also maximizes your sight radius - it's definately the preferred choice for target shooting. It has its drawbacks however - a recoiling rifle can see it bump into your eye/glasses knocking it forward. You can place your head further back from the aperture, but then you have to swap in a bigger aperture to let some more light through, sacrificing accuracy. Furthermore it’s indeed a little more awkward to hold and in fact (as you suggested) a recoiling rifle can damage the skin on your thumb placed perpendicular across the grip behind it (after repeated recoiling shots over a match or two). This can be trained out, you just have to explicitly remember to place your thumb further back - this is hard to remember if you shoot a variety of sub disciplines where you're chopping and changing rifles. again you may have to unnaturally train against your natural weld to get your head back.

Also with respect to adjusting the tang - a tang like a marbles isn’t marked, meaning if you forget where your elevation is, you can lose track of your zero. in contrast, the Williams or Lyman peep have that little ladder indicator on the side so you can visually see where your elevation is. The gaugeless tang is especially risky for rainbow calibers which demand a fair amount of adjustment. An MVA tang can help with this, but they are bulky, hard to get and not to mention pricy.

In summary, I love a tang on the light-recoiling 32-20 but dislike it on something bigger like a 44mag or 45/70. It’s a bit awkward to carry but I tend to grip a hunting rifle halfway down in one hand anyway, so not a big issue. Getting back to your 30/30. I've never had a combination of dovetail and tang so I couldn't comment about your idea. the 30/30 boot isn't so bad - and for the odd hunting shot even shooting a modern fast flat pill I guarantee you’ll be able to shoot it very accurately with a tang. Is it a 24”?

Hope this helps mate

[bigpete]

Funnily enough,there's a round barrel version I'm lusting after locally.....

[in2anity]

Funnily enough,there's a round barrel version I'm lusting after locally.....

32-20?

[bigpete]

Yep

[in2anity]

Yep

It's an underrated caliber you'll like it - more accurate than most knockabout levers. The case is big enough to drive up into true magnum territory; hodgdon's lil'gun is really good for squeezing out the most speed (without excessive pressure). The cases are an ancient design however - gotta be super gentle with them.

[in2anity]

Shot some iron-sighted (front tunnel) 50m groups with a variety of powders, starting with a Trail Boss control group. As much as I'd like to claim it, this 3-shot flouling/warmup group is not indicative of long-string, hot-barrel accuracy:

50m cold clean barrel

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Adjusted my sights: no denying it likes TB loads - as you can see, this group would have been much tighter had it not have been for that pesky flyer.

50m

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Then I moved on to some AR2205. 2205 didn't shoot as well as TB or AP70N.

50m

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This is actually a 5-shot group - one of the shots is completely high and off the paper...

50m

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Not very impressive...

50m

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Then on to some promising AP70N loads; I could tell right away AP70N was shooting better than the AR2205...

50m

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Best load of the day, a tad over 2moa - superb stabilization, negligible recoil. This will be my PC silhouette load.

50m, 2.2moa!

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4.0gr opened up a little. In case you were wondering I adjust my sights a whisker to account for the hotter load.

50m, sights down a bit

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In summary, I'm happy AP70N shoots better than the AR2205 for two main reasons 1)it's more economical than AR2205 2)it's cleaner that AR2205 (which is advantageous in a 92 action)