Long range is all the rage. Rimfire shooting is cheap.

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Long range is all the rage. Rimfire shooting is cheap.

Post by wildcard6 » 20 Jul 2018, 2:12 pm

I've been working for a few months on a new shoot that will combine rimfire benchrest shooting and long range metallic silhouette shooting. Here's a link to the Youtube video I made of my early work on it. There are still a few hurdles to jump before it's accepted at my club, but it's getting close. I never seem to get tired of knocking down steel targets, but the longer the range, the bigger the rush when you do!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOKgfLnLimg

The original concept was for just 300-yard shooting, but I've come up with a multi-range format that will have steel targets at 100m, 200m and 300 yds. Surprisingly, it's not that hard to get a aiming solution at 300yds with either HV or SV ammo, although the holdover is less with HV, which also comes in handy for hitting power. In the video, I thought I missed five times in the first run, but it was a freshly painted target and there are two hits in the final still shot. Anybody interested should contact SSAA Para range and ask for Pat.
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Post by bladeracer » 20 Jul 2018, 3:57 pm

wildcard6 wrote:I've been working for a few months on a new shoot that will combine rimfire benchrest shooting and long range metallic silhouette shooting. Here's a link to the Youtube video I made of my early work on it. There are still a few hurdles to jump before it's accepted at my club, but it's getting close. I never seem to get tired of knocking down steel targets, but the longer the range, the bigger the rush when you do!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOKgfLnLimg

The original concept was for just 300-yard shooting, but I've come up with a multi-range format that will have steel targets at 100m, 200m and 300 yds. Surprisingly, it's not that hard to get a aiming solution at 300yds with either HV or SV ammo, although the holdover is less with HV, which also comes in handy for hitting power. In the video, I thought I missed five times in the first run, but it was a freshly painted target and there are two hits in the final still shot. Anybody interested should contact SSAA Para range and ask for Pat.


I like shooting .22LR at longer ranges, looks like fun. Is 300yds a range limitation or is there some other reasoning for not going to 300m? I just had a look at the trajectory, and a 300yd zero with Standard Velocity gives the same hold at 100m and 200m (PoI around 1200mm high - 40MoA and 20MoA), which is pretty handy.
By combining the two do you mean you are not shooting offhand?
50-odd ft/lb of energy is going to struggle to knock over most steel targets. What size and thickness silhouettes are you shooting at?
My biggest annoyance with Silhouette shooting is that we shouldn't be aiming to hit the entire silhouette, only hits to the kill zones should be counted. I would prefer a paper silhouette with gongs over the kill zones only. If we are not trying to be representative of hunting then there is no reason to use animal silhouettes at all.
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Post by No1_49er » 20 Jul 2018, 5:14 pm

Instead of reinventing the wheel, why don't you have a look at a match that is already up and running.
Yes, it's a US discipline but it has gained some popularity to the extent that there is a National Championship shoot at Raton, New Mexico.

http://www.22bpcra.com/
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Post by in2anity » 21 Jul 2018, 12:43 pm

It’s unclear as to whether this discipline is shot offhand or not? I think it’ll appeal to a lot more shooters if it’s shot from offhand... otherwise it’s just another “race to the top” money=accuracy=good scores. Also I have my doubts about the capabilities of the 22 on a gusty day - this is problem enough already for the rams at 100m... as we all know the 22 is far from a 300m caliber...
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Post by No1_49er » 21 Jul 2018, 12:54 pm

Don't know what is proposed w.r.t. the "up to 300m" discipline, but the 22BPCRA match is shot same as Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Silhouette i.e. 50m offhand, then 100m, 150m and 200m over "crossed sticks". A gusty day is certainly a test, even at 200m rams.
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Post by bladeracer » 21 Jul 2018, 1:37 pm

in2anity wrote:It’s unclear as to whether this discipline is shot offhand or not? I think it’ll appeal to a lot more shooters if it’s shot from offhand... otherwise it’s just another “race to the top” money=accuracy=good scores. Also I have my doubts about the capabilities of the 22 on a gusty day - this is problem enough already for the rams at 100m... as we all know the 22 is far from a 300m caliber...


Yes, wind would be a significant problem, although roughly on par with a 300gn .45-70 bullet so not a complete waste.
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Post by in2anity » 21 Jul 2018, 5:33 pm

bladeracer wrote:
in2anity wrote:It’s unclear as to whether this discipline is shot offhand or not? I think it’ll appeal to a lot more shooters if it’s shot from offhand... otherwise it’s just another “race to the top” money=accuracy=good scores. Also I have my doubts about the capabilities of the 22 on a gusty day - this is problem enough already for the rams at 100m... as we all know the 22 is far from a 300m caliber...


Yes, wind would be a significant problem, although roughly on par with a 300gn .45-70 bullet so not a complete waste.


I’m not sure I understand your parallel Blade? Are you comparing the 300gn to the 40gn 22lr?
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Post by bladeracer » 21 Jul 2018, 6:12 pm

in2anity wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Yes, wind would be a significant problem, although roughly on par with a 300gn .45-70 bullet so not a complete waste.


I’m not sure I understand your parallel Blade? Are you comparing the 300gn to the 40gn 22lr?


Yes, I ran the numbers for a 115BC 40gn at 1080fps and a 190BC 300gn at 2000fps. The .458" bullet has four-times the frontal area of the .223" bullet, and dumps 900fps by 300yds compared to the .22LR only dropping 365fps.
At 300yds in a 10mph wind the 40gn is deflected about 12.5MoA, and the 300gn about 10MoA. Drop some velocity or BC with a flat-nosed bullet and the wind deflection would be even closer, but I'm sure there are .22LR bullets that can improve the ballistics as well. I think they're within the ballpark for practicing. Even the trajectory is within 200mm or so at midrange.
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Post by in2anity » 21 Jul 2018, 6:34 pm

bladeracer wrote:
in2anity wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Yes, wind would be a significant problem, although roughly on par with a 300gn .45-70 bullet so not a complete waste.


I’m not sure I understand your parallel Blade? Are you comparing the 300gn to the 40gn 22lr?


Yes, I ran the numbers for a 115BC 40gn at 1080fps and a 190BC 300gn at 2000fps. The .458" bullet has four-times the frontal area of the .223" bullet, and dumps 900fps by 300yds compared to the .22LR only dropping 365fps.
At 300yds in a 10mph wind the 40gn is deflected about 12.5MoA, and the 300gn about 10MoA. Drop some velocity or BC with a flat-nosed bullet and the wind deflection would be even closer, but I'm sure there are .22LR bullets that can improve the ballistics as well. I think they're within the ballpark for practicing. Even the trajectory is within 200mm or so at midrange.


Yeah but windage knocks the lighter pill around a helluva lot more
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Post by bladeracer » 21 Jul 2018, 7:33 pm

in2anity wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
in2anity wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Yes, wind would be a significant problem, although roughly on par with a 300gn .45-70 bullet so not a complete waste.


I’m not sure I understand your parallel Blade? Are you comparing the 300gn to the 40gn 22lr?


Yes, I ran the numbers for a 115BC 40gn at 1080fps and a 190BC 300gn at 2000fps. The .458" bullet has four-times the frontal area of the .223" bullet, and dumps 900fps by 300yds compared to the .22LR only dropping 365fps.
At 300yds in a 10mph wind the 40gn is deflected about 12.5MoA, and the 300gn about 10MoA. Drop some velocity or BC with a flat-nosed bullet and the wind deflection would be even closer, but I'm sure there are .22LR bullets that can improve the ballistics as well. I think they're within the ballpark for practicing. Even the trajectory is within 200mm or so at midrange.


Yeah but windage knocks the lighter pill around a helluva lot more


Do you mean more than what the software indicates? We're talking 900mm for the 300gn and 1125mm for the 40gn at 300yds. That seems close enough to me that velocity and bullet choice could push either one ahead of the other.
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Post by wildcard6 » 22 Jul 2018, 3:26 pm

There seem to be lots of issues being thrown up in replies, but here are a few responses. The range at SSAA Para in Adelaide only goes out to 300 YARDS, so that's as far as I can go with this shoot. As far as shooting at animal-shaped targets goes, I didn't invent the idea, and as far as I know, it has no bearing on hunting whatsoever. Any suggestion that it is a simulation of hunting is incorrect. What it is, is FUN! The animal shapes also give many odd corners and gaps that can cause very near misses that would otherwise have been hits on regular shaped targets like circles or squares. As to the shooting format, it will be strictly benchrest shooting. I know one chap who is a very good metallic silhouette shooter who claims that the Cowboy Lever Action Ram at 200m is very hittable offhand, but I will be using the Scoped Rimfire Ram target at 200m, which is SMALL. I will be using the same scale CHICKEN at 100m, which is 2.5 times the distance they are shot offhand. I've not been trying to come up with an Olympic event, rather just an entertaining shoot that stretches the limits on what is considered possible with a .22 rimfire. The process in South Australia when it comes to getting permission for a new shoot at a gun club is difficult. Not only do you have to challenge the status-quo of Field Rifle and 3P, but SA Police has to give their okay to anything new as well. So I'm not trying to reinvent anything, just using what we've already got in an innovative way. I have nothing against either of the two shoots mentioned above, except that I don't care to do them. In a way, silhouette shooting is a slightly more grown-up version of shooting coke cans, and who hasn't had a bit of fun with that 'back in the day'? Thanks to those who contributed positively to the conversation, enjoy your shooting. Signing off.
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Post by bladeracer » 22 Jul 2018, 5:34 pm

wildcard6 wrote:There seem to be lots of issues being thrown up in replies, but here are a few responses. The range at SSAA Para in Adelaide only goes out to 300 YARDS, so that's as far as I can go with this shoot. As far as shooting at animal-shaped targets goes, I didn't invent the idea, and as far as I know, it has no bearing on hunting whatsoever. Any suggestion that it is a simulation of hunting is incorrect. What it is, is FUN! The animal shapes also give many odd corners and gaps that can cause very near misses that would otherwise have been hits on regular shaped targets like circles or squares. As to the shooting format, it will be strictly benchrest shooting. I know one chap who is a very good metallic silhouette shooter who claims that the Cowboy Lever Action Ram at 200m is very hittable offhand, but I will be using the Scoped Rimfire Ram target at 200m, which is SMALL. I will be using the same scale CHICKEN at 100m, which is 2.5 times the distance they are shot offhand. I've not been trying to come up with an Olympic event, rather just an entertaining shoot that stretches the limits on what is considered possible with a .22 rimfire. The process in South Australia when it comes to getting permission for a new shoot at a gun club is difficult. Not only do you have to challenge the status-quo of Field Rifle and 3P, but SA Police has to give their okay to anything new as well. So I'm not trying to reinvent anything, just using what we've already got in an innovative way. I have nothing against either of the two shoots mentioned above, except that I don't care to do them. In a way, silhouette shooting is a slightly more grown-up version of shooting coke cans, and who hasn't had a bit of fun with that 'back in the day'? Thanks to those who contributed positively to the conversation, enjoy your shooting. Signing off.


I understand the enjoyment of shooting at animal silhouettes, I do it myself, but to claim it is not supposed to represent hunting is silly (I never suggested it was a simulation). But, for me at least, all competition shooting should be aimed at improving real-world skills, not just arbitrary shooting. So, you are using standard-spec one-fifth-scale silhouettes? I can see why you're referring to Benchrest as you need consistent 1MoA for hits on those, not easy with .22LR at 300yds. If you are using the ram at 200m, what are you using at 300yds?
I have one-fifth and half-scale silhouettes so I can play around with this at home.
What are the requirements in rifle, scope, etc? I assume the average small-bore hunting rifle is the target here? If it's going to be restricted to Benchrest rifles I've got no interest in it.

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Post by in2anity » 22 Jul 2018, 9:20 pm

bladeracer wrote:
in2anity wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
in2anity wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Yes, wind would be a significant problem, although roughly on par with a 300gn .45-70 bullet so not a complete waste.


I’m not sure I understand your parallel Blade? Are you comparing the 300gn to the 40gn 22lr?


Yes, I ran the numbers for a 115BC 40gn at 1080fps and a 190BC 300gn at 2000fps. The .458" bullet has four-times the frontal area of the .223" bullet, and dumps 900fps by 300yds compared to the .22LR only dropping 365fps.
At 300yds in a 10mph wind the 40gn is deflected about 12.5MoA, and the 300gn about 10MoA. Drop some velocity or BC with a flat-nosed bullet and the wind deflection would be even closer, but I'm sure there are .22LR bullets that can improve the ballistics as well. I think they're within the ballpark for practicing. Even the trajectory is within 200mm or so at midrange.


Yeah but windage knocks the lighter pill around a helluva lot more


Do you mean more than what the software indicates? We're talking 900mm for the 300gn and 1125mm for the 40gn at 300yds. That seems close enough to me that velocity and bullet choice could push either one ahead of the other.


I think you are right Blade - I stand corrected. That’s crazy!
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Post by Bridgy » 23 Jul 2018, 8:08 pm

Looks like a lot of fun. Para is my local range, and I plan on joining up this year as a member, once I align what I own with the disciplines I can shoot. Hope it works out for you mate!
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Post by tom604 » 23 Jul 2018, 8:56 pm

Bridgy wrote:Looks like a lot of fun. Para is my local range, and I plan on joining up this year as a member, once I align what I own with the disciplines I can shoot. Hope it works out for you mate!


you can shoot 3p, field rifle with a .22 or centerfire but its cheaper with a rimfire :thumbsup: good way to waste a lazy Sunday morning,plus it will help with your hunting shots as well, really shows how sh1t you are off hand as well :lol:
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Post by tom604 » 19 Aug 2018, 5:55 pm

was up at para today and it looks like wildcard had a dummy run of the long range ,22, i wasn't shooting it but did shoot down some of the 100 chooks after they had moved on to two hundred 8-) they had a scoring system set up,(not sure how it works) , bit windy which made the 300 targets a challenge but not impossible ,,you could tell when they got one by the cheers :lol: i left my name so if/when they have another one i get an invite :thumbsup:
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Post by bigrich » 19 Aug 2018, 6:29 pm

sounds like a brilliant idea, bottom line though it should be FUN ! it's one of the primary reasons i bought a 22lr good cheap fun, as well as a bunny gun. funny about wind, i cancelled going out to ripley range today because of 40 km plus gusts . 40 grainers would've gone back over my head and landed in the carpark !
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