Advice on Lever Action

[bladeracer]

Never seen the need.

Sure, you might not, others might...

[Stix]

Thanks guys.

The reason for considering a scope is my bad eyesight.
I should wear glasses but hate them so i dont.
Without glasses on i cant see front or rear sight or target...When i have glasses on can only see either/or.
Im not sure how ill play it all out, but ill start with open sights & see how that goes.

Personally i dont like the look of the old levers with glass, but i may need something to aid me as i can see im going to want to play with off hand stuff out to atleast 100 if not further

[in2anity]

Never seen the need.

Sure, you might not, others might...

well obviously it depends on your application doesn't it - I can see GR's perspective because half a minute of variance is rather insignificant for lever silhouette (where most variance comes from the shooter pulling the trigger at the wrong time ) - then again in Blade's defence, if you plan to varmint or long-range from (potentially) a supported position, half a minute becomes a lot more more important... horses for courses... personally the way I see load development, it's all about eliminating variables - a scope removes any variance of shooting with open sights, so therefore it is gonna be more or less beneficial.

[bladeracer]

...personally the way I see load development, it's all about eliminating variables - a scope removes any variance of shooting with open sights, so therefore it is gonna be more or less beneficial.

Exactly.
When you're developing ammo and trying to tighten the groups, it's easier to make judgements with 2MoA groups than 5MoA groups.
Shooter error is in addition to group spread.
I might be able to hold 5MoA offhand, but if my ammo only shoots 5MoA scoped off the bench then I have 10MoA potential. Get the ammo down to 2MoA and I should be able to keep them under 7MoA.

[bigrich]

Stix, if ya eyes aren’t that flash mate , grab a marlin. Mounting up a scope/red dot is easy and straight forward. Yes , I know you can mount one up on a Winnie, but it just seems sacrilegious to do it. I sold my ‘94 rather than do that to it. Tried a Williams peep. That was better but still too slow to sight on a dark background was gunna try fluro firesights, but trying to get the right height front sight without sending to the USA was too much of a pain. Ya do see pre-Remington marlins for sale. Which are supposed to be better. Some of the lever nuts on here could expand on that. Annie Oakley and buffalo bill used marlin apparently. Just a few thoughts

[bladeracer]

...trying to get the right height front sight without sending to the USA was too much of a pain.

Wrap a piece of wire around the sight so it sits high and shoot a group. Shorten it as needed. When you have the height you want, measure it.

[in2anity]

Exactly.
When you're developing ammo and trying to tighten the groups, it's easier to make judgements with 2MoA groups than 5MoA groups.
Shooter error is in addition to group spread.
I might be able to hold 5MoA offhand, but if my ammo only shoots 5MoA scoped off the bench then I have 10MoA potential. Get the ammo down to 2MoA and I should be able to keep them under 7MoA.

I've plugged a few roos at 200m across irons using my trusty ching sling from kneeling - at that distance (at that sized target), my optimised 2moa load becomes pretty darned important!

[bigrich]

Exactly.
When you're developing ammo and trying to tighten the groups, it's easier to make judgements with 2MoA groups than 5MoA groups.
Shooter error is in addition to group spread.
I might be able to hold 5MoA offhand, but if my ammo only shoots 5MoA scoped off the bench then I have 10MoA potential. Get the ammo down to 2MoA and I should be able to keep them under 7MoA.

I've plugged a few roos at 200m across irons using my trusty ching sling from kneeling - at that distance (at that sized target), my optimised 2moa load becomes pretty darned important!

that's good shooting with opens on a lever bud

[in2anity]

that's good shooting with opens on a lever bud

Cheers br, a stabilizing sling and something to rest your elbow goes a long way and don’t worry I’ve missed plenty too! Anyways I guess the point is some applications really do demand the most accurate load... which is best obtained using a scope!

[bigrich]

Yeh in2anity if ya can’t place a shot properly, yah probably shouldn’t take it. I can’t shoot to quick with open sight these days, gunna give service rifle a go soon but. Bit more time to line things up and if ya do miss, it’s only paper. All my hunting rifles are scoped, but I am careful not to overscope as well. I think if I went down the lever path again, it would be a marlin. For easy cleaning and scope mounting. I’ve got high regard for the Winchester, just not practical for me in usage.

[in2anity]

Yeh in2anity if ya can’t place a shot properly, yah probably shouldn’t take it.:

The way I see things - this is more applicable to larger game where shot placement can mean the difference between the animal escaping or not (for example sambar). When it comes to varminting (which I categorise grasshoppers under) - an overpowered rifle (like the 30/30) requires only a centre of mass hit to break em down, so shot placement isn't quite as crucial. given these factors, you can therefore gamble a bit more on those trickier shots. I certainly agree that a scope is ultimately the best tool for the job however - I just love the challenge of iron-sited hunting - real sense of nostalgia for me!