6.5x55 Swede military quetion/s

[Cal-ApeR]

Good morning all,

Quick questions regarding the Swedish Mauser. For some weird reason, this round fascinates me. It isn't a creedmore, it isn't a 260, i know this. I know it is old and that's it's appeal. It is still keeping up with the young pups and if reloading, ammo availability seems fine.

My question relates to the older military rifles (which i know VERY little about and don't own anything in that vintage). I 've read everywhere including on this forum about reloading for the 6.5x55 and that the loads need to be very tame for it in older military actions. There is a lack of modern rifles made for this cartridge within budget but plenty of older ones popping up all the time. Is the load data on the ADI site relating to the older actions or the newer ones? I assume the older to cover themselves and velocities seem a bit down(?).

Which of the older military rifles are the ones to choose? I see Husquavana, Kraggs etc. I would prefer a sporterised rifle that i can use for deer and pigs. Is it easy to sporterise these myself?

If all else fails i know i can hold out a little longer and save my pennies to buy new but there is appeal in a cheap military rifle that can take a beating. I have two left hands so repair work etc is limited without going to a Smith.


As always, advice is appreciated.

[bigrich]

What I have been told is the Carl Gustaf, while being one of the most precisely accurate made old milsurp you can find, is a product when metallurgy was not as well developed as when the Husqvarna was made. I have seen a guy at the range shooting a 1913 Gustafs 3 grains over max on 2209 with one hole accuracy at 100. Not something I would do but he worked his loads up and had no pressure signs. Check out my earlier posts on my 1941 m38 husky. Original full wood , had been fitted with scope mounts, I put a 3-9 on it and shot under a inch with basic Handloading. Husqvarna built spotters on these actions up to 9.3 x57 . So strong enough. Huskies are easy to get to shoot well and aren’t expensive

[No1_49er]

I have several Swede's in models M94, M96, M38, AG42, and, for hunting, a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight. Have to agree that it is a very good round for all applications
Regarding the strength/weakness of the action, the attached clip has some interesting data. It could hardly be called a weakling if you compare the standard and proof load pressures and todays rifles, in many common cartridges.
I'd be inclined to hang out a while and put your pennies toward a new made rifle, or at least a new era one, if only because of the pre-drilling for scope mount, stock style, weight (?), and perhaps a better strength action.
Howa, Tikka, Sako, Ruger (bolt or No1), and others.

[No1Mk3]

G'day Cal-ApeR,
Any of the Swedes can be sporterized, and many have been. Instead of destroying a collectible as issued rifle you would be better off buying one already done. It would be many dollars cheaper also The data in ADI manuals is for any rifle, and is designed not to exceed the Swedish Service level of 47000 psi. We load the Swede to around 2500 fps with 140g projectiles and they seem to really love 2209 powder. You will hear claims that the later Husqvarna actions are stronger than the earlier Carl Gustaf, this is not true. Even the earliest Waffenfabrik Mauser actions are still in use at full power and a number of CG actions were converted to 7.62x51 for English target shooters. The steel in Swedish rifles is, due to it's composition, superior to anything Germany had at that time and is still good today in any rifle that has not been abused, so bearing that in mind have your rifle checked by a gunsmith then go hunt, and all the best with that, Cheers.
PS: I own 11 Swedes from all 3 makers and have been shooting them for over 35 years, so I am experienced with them.

[bigrich]

A already modified husky would be my pick. Modified mine by putting a standard Gustafs m96 trigger. These seem to be much lighter then the m38 husky trigger. THE best powder I’ve found, and highly recommended online, is alliant re22 .. ar 2209 seems okay with 120gr projectiles, but for 140’s re22 seems to work better in my rifles. I’m loading for the m38 I’ve already mentioned, as well as a model 70 Winchester. AS for the soft receivers in the earlier Gustaf. I’ve been told that by a few gunsmiths. Apparently though Norma still use 96 actions for load testing.

[marksman]

this round is a very capable round even in the rifle it was made
if you want to use full house loads to what the cartridge is capable get a new rifle in this cartridge
I like the 6.5x55 myself and have shot heaps of game with it
I had mine made from a 98 because I like the 98's
you can sporterise them very easily, I have done a few for some mate's
the only thing I have found that you should be aware of is bullet selection is vital,
if the projectile is to hard it will pencil through good performing projectiles are a must with the 6.5's

[Supaduke]

Please don't sporterize a full wood old timer....

Just

Dont

[bigrich]

Please don't sporterize a full wood old timer....

Just

Dont

+1

[SCJ429]

What sort of budget do you have, a Tikka T3 can be had for as little as $700 chambered in the Swede. No one will complain if you modify it and you can load the case to its full potential.

[bigrich]

hey cal-aper, just looked on usedguns, there's a weatherby vangaurd for $1185 with dies and a ruger 77 with a big meopta scope (scopes gotta be worth $700 + ), on ozgunsales there's a '98 mauser set up in 6.5 . if it's the one i think it is it has a new swan barrel with a new custom stock and has nasty nazi proof marks. looks very much like one that was for sale privately i saw a while ago, there's another sporter m96 with a very good barrel in a boyd thumbhole stock for $450. lotta choices. don't worry mate, i'll help ya find a good one. now, how many did ya want ?

[Cal-ApeR]

Haha. Cheers fellas. Don't worry, I'm not particularly interested in destroying a piece of history. My old boy cherishes his old Enfields. He'd lose his S#$t.
I was leaning towards a sporter used one.

Thankyou to all who have given advice, exactly the input I was after.

Bigrich, I'll check out those you mentioned. Can never have enough ay!

Also interesting about the projectile selection being vital otherwise you pencil through. I assume this is a 6.5 thing, not just the Swede?

[bigrich]

Cal-aper, get onto terminal ballistics research website, and have a read of 6.5x55 under the knowledge base section. The guy who runs the website is a hunting guide in NZ, he’s also written a couple of books. Lots of good advice on loads and projectile selection. The hard part of buying second hand rifles is it can be a lucky dip. I’ve bought a few online, only one wasn’t what the seller said it was. The last one I bought is a 222 model 70 Winchester that’s better than I was expecting and shoots like a laser. I saw a Swede in my local, new sporter barrel, Geoff slee stock, scope and mounts, was only $750. Ya gotta be quick on the bargains, it sold quick

[Cal-ApeR]

Thanks mate, I'll check out out.

[marksman]

there's plenty that have been hacked that you can get real cheap
http://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=121975
a bedding job, crown, trigger job, scope and load development you have a cheap shooter

[bigrich]

there's plenty that have been hacked that you can get real cheap
http://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=121975
a bedding job, crown, trigger job, scope and load development you have a cheap shooter

your on the money there MM, that's a real good budget sporter.

[Andrew1au]

I have a M96 Husquavana and I would recommend. Feels Great to shoot and highly accurate. Even with the iron sights.
I reload as for the ADI book and I have had no worries. Without checking, I think I use 34grn of 2208.

One thing I have noticed is that it makes a mess of what you hit. So not good if you hunt for pelts. But great for putting down nearly any game we have here in Australia.

Please do not sporterise a wooden stock one. It ruins them. Mine was a old farm gun and was rough. I stripped it, sanded the wood (watch the edges) and rubbed down with linseed oil. Then I cleaned all metal parts. As the blue was patchy, I polished the barrel, bolt and action. Can alsway re blue later or leave polished to be a little different.

I picked it up for $150. Now I have turned down quadruple that. Too much personal attachment after the hours spent on it.

72F79103-62C7-4B70-B7C4-CA1795F3A671.jpeg (568.91 KiB) Viewed 7006 times

[bigrich]

I have a M96 Husquavana and I would recommend. Feels Great to shoot and highly accurate. Even with the iron sights.
I reload as for the ADI book and I have had no worries. Without checking, I think I use 34grn of 2208.

One thing I have noticed is that it makes a mess of what you hit. So not good if you hunt for pelts. But great for putting down nearly any game we have here in Australia.

Please do not sporterise a wooden stock one. It ruins them. Mine was a old farm gun and was rough. I stripped it, sanded the wood (watch the edges) and rubbed down with linseed oil. Then I cleaned all metal parts. As the blue was patchy, I polished the barrel, bolt and action. Can alsway re blue later or leave polished to be a little different.

I picked it up for $150. Now I have turned down quadruple that. Too much personal attachment after the hours spent on it.

72F79103-62C7-4B70-B7C4-CA1795F3A671.jpeg

That’s a nice old girl mate. They really do shoot unbelievably well in standard form, and 6.5x55 really is a great “all round “ cartridge for Australia. With Handloading they get even better. My 1941 m38 husky was already fitted with a scope mounts when I got it, with the starting load of re22 and 142gr match kings will shoot in the .7’s . Going to remove the scope after a bit more load testing and do service rifle for kicks. Already have a dedicated hunting 6.5 in a Winchester. I’ve got the idea to build a Bavarian full wood hunter out of a Swede that’s already been chopped up. Might be a future project

[bigrich]

another practical thing about the later "shorter" ww2 era swedes is their open sights start at 100 meters. not 300 like a early gustaf. they shoot 6-9 inches high at 100 depending on what ammo your putting through them . for those that don't know a lot of the earlier 29 inch barreled gustafs were cut down to the same length as the m38 husqvanas at the begining of ww2 by the swede armoury . ammo was also changed around this point from 160 grain round nose to 140 grain fmj spire points.from what i can find out online, this ammo was also a hotter load for a flatter trajectory , apparently some yanks have chrono'ed swede millitary ammo at 2680 fps out of 29 inch barreled "sniper" rifles , which are just a earlier long barreled gustaf with a scope . fps would be slower out of the shorter barrel of coarse. hope this info is useful for someone , but do take all info with a grain of salt and definately be cautious when working up handloads

[Nailfinder]

Gentleman I am trying to buy an M94 carbine all matching numbers in good condition . I have placed adds in Used Guns but only got scammers. Is there anywhere else I should look . Importing from the US looks to be problematic ??? Any advise would be welcome
Rick

[bladeracer]

Gentleman I am trying to buy an M94 carbine all matching numbers in good condition . I have placed adds in Used Guns but only got scammers. Is there anywhere else I should look . Importing from the US looks to be problematic ??? Any advise would be welcome
Rick

I"m looking for an M94 Carbine myself but haven't seen any. The US or Europe would seem to be the best bet, but it adds a couple grand to the price.

[Nailfinder]

Gunbroker in the US always have one up for sale , really good ones come up regularly , but the logistics / cost of getting it to Aus is just daunting . Anyone on the Forum done it who can give us some advice
Rick

[bladeracer]

Gunbroker in the US always have one up for sale , really good ones come up regularly , but the logistics / cost of getting it to Aus is just daunting . Anyone on the Forum done it who can give us some advice
Rick

I imported two Mausers last year from South Africa, the US blows the price out ridiculously. But I'm told the M94 was never common in SA. From the US adds $2K to the price, I expect Europe would be even more.

[Nailfinder]

Did you do the importing yourself or use an agent .
Rick

[bladeracer]

Did you do the importing yourself or use an agent .
Rick

Myself.

[No1_49er]

Gentleman I am trying to buy an M94 carbine all matching numbers in good condition . I have placed adds in Used Guns but only got scammers. Is there anywhere else I should look . Importing from the US looks to be problematic ??? Any advise would be welcome
Rick

You've heard of Rocking-Horse s**t? And Hens-teeth. A bit like that, especially with all matching numbers.
There are some that "float by" occasionally. But their scarcity means that you'll have to pounce pretty quick, and have big pockets.

[bladeracer]

You've heard of Rocking-Horse s**t? And Hens-teeth. A bit like that, especially with all matching numbers.
There are some that "float by" occasionally. But their scarcity means that you'll have to pounce pretty quick, and have big pockets.

Definitely going to struggle to find a collectible one, I'm just after a shooter I can enjoy myself

[No1Mk3]

G'day Nailfinder (+bladeracer),
If you look at the US for a carbine, be aware that the original importation of these sweet (I have 3) little rifles was prohibited due to barrel length restrictions, to get around this the US importer had a 1/2" extension added to the barrel so they are not "original" whereas a European sourced one would be. To import form the US you need an export permit which at last check costs $2000 US, but lasts 12 months and allows unlimited numbers (YES!), so some dealers here hold permits and charge a small fee to import a rifle for you. Try Black Range in Victoria for this. As for Europe, the Laws vary a lot, but the UK is around $2000 for a permit but again many dealers/importers have access, but you will have to find one. Lastly, my mate is thinking of selling his M94/14 as he doesn't use it often and has his eye on another A/T rifle, I think he wants around $2500 for the carbine and 2 m/14 bayonets, and as I blew my budget at the last auction I can't reasonably buy it so will confirm it's price if you are interested, Cheers.

[bladeracer]

G'day Nailfinder (+bladeracer),
If you look at the US for a carbine, be aware that the original importation of these sweet (I have 3) little rifles was prohibited due to barrel length restrictions, to get around this the US importer had a 1/2" extension added to the barrel so they are not "original" whereas a European sourced one would be. To import form the US you need an export permit which at last check costs $2000 US, but lasts 12 months and allows unlimited numbers (YES!), so some dealers here hold permits and charge a small fee to import a rifle for you. Try Black Range in Victoria for this. As for Europe, the Laws vary a lot, but the UK is around $2000 for a permit but again many dealers/importers have access, but you will have to find one. Lastly, my mate is thinking of selling his M94/14 as he doesn't use it often and has his eye on another A/T rifle, I think he wants around $2500 for the carbine and 2 m/14 bayonets, and as I blew my budget at the last auction I can't reasonably buy it so will confirm it's price if you are interested, Cheers.

I could probably do $2500 for one, but not for a month or two.

[No1Mk3]

G'day bladeracer,
I don't think he is in any great rush so I will ring him tomorrow and find out some details for you, I'm off to work now. . Fired the Verguiero yet? Cheers.

[bladeracer]

G'day bladeracer,
I don't think he is in any great rush so I will ring him tomorrow and find out some details for you, I'm off to work now. . Fired the Verguiero yet? Cheers.

I'll give first dibs to Nailfinder, it was his question after all.

Yes, fired all except one of them, the nicest of the M1904's I haven't fired yet, and may not as I think it's a rather good example.