How to judge distance and trajectory?

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How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by Roo farmer » 04 Oct 2018, 8:24 pm

Any tips?

I can shoot what I consider a decent group. I have my 223 sighted in at about 1" to 1-1/2" high at 100 metres. I can hit close shots, and further out shots, but seem to shoot over the top of mid range shots sometimes.

Easy solution is to aim a bit lower at mid range of course. But how to judge the distance? To make it more difficult, the size of the roos vary a lot, making it harder to judge the distance.

It's a hunting from a vehicle at night time with a spotlight type situation, with not a lot of time to think about things before taking the shot.

Hoping for some ideas that don't involve shooting at sheets of paper as I find that rather frustrating.
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by in2anity » 04 Oct 2018, 8:38 pm

How about a 100m zero? Then just keep your shots under 150m. It’s hard judging distances at night - do you regularly take shots out to 200m+ whilst spotting?
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by Rod_outbak » 04 Oct 2018, 9:03 pm

Roo Farmer,

How far do you usually shoot when spotlighting? I'd struggle to be shooting much beyond 200-250 metres at night, and the spotlight is certainly running out of steam by that distance.

A rangefinder would help to get accurate distances, but unless you have someone who can work it full-time while you shoot, it will become too much stuffing around.
However, even if you did range a few dozen roos at the start of the night, you might build an idea of what sort of distance you are shooting on average.
You could likely get one of the cheaper ones that only work out to 500 metres or so, as you arent likely be shooting anywhere near that far at night.

Are you shooting for commercial harvest? If not, why not aim for the top of the shoulder? If it's a bit high, then you'll head-shoot him, and if it's a bit low, then you'll nail him in the centre of the chest.

I dont shoot much beyond around 250 at night, so maybe not much use to you.

Sorry; Looking at what I've written, not much help.

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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by Oldbloke » 04 Oct 2018, 9:05 pm

A-ha, the age old problem. I have the same issue head shooting rabbits.
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by duncan61 » 05 Oct 2018, 12:13 am

I had my .222 zeroed at 100 and shot roos at 80-100 never tried further than that as the superstars that drop them at 250 at night either spend an hour looking for them and if and when they recover them they are rarely brained and we cant sell them.If you cant get that close regular look at getting a flatter shooting rifle.I used a .243 in the day for roos and it was pretty good.Up the north west it is quite cool in may june and you can go culling around 3PM As the flies have retired
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by JimTom » 05 Oct 2018, 5:42 am

Mate I have an app on my phone that calculates the trajectory of my different loads. There are any number of them available.
I then pick a sensible distance to zero the round. For example I know that my .308 is an inch and a quarter high at 100m and an inch and a quarter low at 200m. That is generally my longest shot so my trajectory is only and inch or so high or low at any given time. Sure if I shoot beyond that the trajectory becomes a rainbow and difficult to judge. Well for me it is anyway.
I keep my shots under 200m.
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by JimTom » 05 Oct 2018, 5:46 am

If you are determined to shoot beyond then there are a number of different methods to use for judging distance.
My favourite and what I thought was the easiest was the halving method.
Instead of judging the full distance to the target, cut it in half and try estimating that as it’s easier to judge a smaller distance. Of course if that’s to big of a distance then cut that in half, ie quarter of the distance and then just multiply by 2 or 4 as appropriate.
It is an easy way to judge distance.
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by Stix » 05 Oct 2018, 11:35 am

Hmmm...the age old quickly ranging under spotlight problem...

Last weekend i shot straight over the head of 2 bunnys at 45 yds with the .22 as i could've sworn they were out at 75ish...
And with the 204 i shot between the ears of one at 190 yds as i could've swirn in was atleast 240 out...
:evil:
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by bladeracer » 05 Oct 2018, 1:09 pm

I don't shoot at night, but judging distance when you can't see the lie of the land between you and your target, or anything in the background to help judge its size, is always going to be difficult. The only accurate way I can see is to hit the target with a laser rangefinder, but I doubt too many critters are going to sit under the spot light while you do that.

But, even in daylight, it's always useful to recon the area you're going to be shooting, on the ground and on a map. Get a feel for distances between landmarks. Know how far that big tree is from the gate, or from the creek. That patch of blackberry from the fence line. Measure the spacing of the fence posts as that can help a lot. Bob did the boundary fences here at 24ft centres - roughly 8m. The new re-fence we've done is at 5m centres, but 6m inside the original fences (to protect the tree lines from the cattle). Count how many old fence posts to that fox in the blackberry on the boundary...sixteen posts away - about 130m then.
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by Gaznazdiak » 05 Oct 2018, 1:43 pm

This would be the perfect solution, probably why the military use them

Sit down before you look at the price though.

https://s8productsgroup.com.au/products/swr-radius
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by Daddybang » 05 Oct 2018, 3:57 pm

Like most things shooting related ..practice lots!! :lol:
Maybe try putting targets at known ranges and practice shooting them under spotlight taking note of different varibles such as light etc at each distance? :unknown: :drinks:
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by Oldbloke » 05 Oct 2018, 6:18 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:This would be the perfect solution, probably why the military use them

Sit down before you look at the price though.

https://s8productsgroup.com.au/products/swr-radius



LOL. Tape an Aldi Range finder to rifle.
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by Gaznazdiak » 05 Oct 2018, 6:36 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
Gaznazdiak wrote:This would be the perfect solution, probably why the military use them

Sit down before you look at the price though.

https://s8productsgroup.com.au/products/swr-radius



LOL. Tape an Aldi Range finder to rifle.


Yeah mate, how about that price?

They're probably used to charging the US military that sort of money.

Remember the reports of suppliers overcharging the Pentagon for ridiculous things like $1000 toilet seats and such? Its still going on but they're starting to crack down apparently.
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by marksman » 05 Oct 2018, 7:13 pm

I like to have shots when spotlighting no more than 200-250
but when shooting roo's distance isn't that hard if your rifle shoots straight because they stand straight up looking at you, sometimes
if looking straight at you shoot the throat and if your guestimation is off a bit the shot will be a bit lower
if the roo is looking away shoot the back of the head, if its a longer shot you will get the neck area, same as a side on head shot between the eye and ear
I dont use a 223 but would have a 200 zero so that most of your shots will be a direct hold and where you want them
I do way longer shots in daylight using a condor golf range finder to estimate the ranges

www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-qQd7EIZSI

http://www.condorgolf.com.au/rangefinde ... inder.html
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by bigfellascott » 05 Oct 2018, 7:21 pm

I generally put eh x hairs on the backline up near the shoulder out past 250m or so which seems to work on foxes etc, 340m being the longest shot at night under a spotlight, all comes down to the cal and how flat it shoots really.
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by Gaznazdiak » 05 Oct 2018, 8:45 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
Gaznazdiak wrote:This would be the perfect solution, probably why the military use them

Sit down before you look at the price though.

https://s8productsgroup.com.au/products/swr-radius



LOL. Tape an Aldi Range finder to rifle.


Yeah mate, how about that price?

They're probably used to charging the US military that sort of money.

Remember the reports of suppliers overcharging the Pentagon for ridiculous things like $1000 toilet seats and such? Its still going on but they're starting to crack down apparently.


Here's a great example, it's still going on, so much for the crack down.

War is business now and business is really good.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... ghanistan-
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by Homer » 07 Oct 2018, 8:44 am

G'Day Fella's,

Roo Farmer, as you are driving about, try and estimate random distances, and then check with the Odometer on your vehicle, for a rough guide.
This will teach you pretty well, how to estimate distances.

Whilst I have got this worked out to maybe 300 meters, I'm still no expert at this.
Because of this, I purchased a pair of Leica, 10x42 rangefinding binoculars.
These have a removable SD card in them, that allows you to program in the ballistics for individual rifle and loads.
The bino's also have the ability to adjust for Up and Down hill shots, and tell you the hold over for that load at the particular "Ranges" distance.
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I have several different SD cards, programmed for different rifles, so I just swap them over and go for a walk.

Hope that helps

D'oh!
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by Roo farmer » 12 Oct 2018, 3:28 pm

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm shooting for commercial sale and therefore shoulder shots are not acceptable. It is probably better to miss over the top at mid range than have a low shot further out.

100 metre zero would help for short to mid range but then I would have to judge aiming high at longer distance.

At a guess I'm shooting out to about 200 metres. The old Landcruiser odometer is not particularly accurate for small distances and is probably only give or take 50 metres.

22-250 and 243 are obviously flatter, but they are quite a bit more expensive to run with reload components and barrel life. They are also louder which scares the roos more.

I'm trying the judging half the distance trick, haven't quite got it yet but I'll keep persevering.

Even if I did have a rangefinder, there would not often be time to use it. I already use the fenceposts spacing a bit sometimes, but that's only really useful if you know the spacing - Four spaces..... 40 metres each..... 160 metres..... Hang on, maybe they were at 50 metres on this fence..... 200 metres..... Or were they 35..... 140 metres..... 200 metres or 140 metres..... Hang on, the roo has gone now so it doesn't matter.....
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by bigfellascott » 12 Oct 2018, 5:25 pm

Roo farmer wrote:Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm shooting for commercial sale and therefore shoulder shots are not acceptable. It is probably better to miss over the top at mid range than have a low shot further out.

100 metre zero would help for short to mid range but then I would have to judge aiming high at longer distance.

At a guess I'm shooting out to about 200 metres. The old Landcruiser odometer is not particularly accurate for small distances and is probably only give or take 50 metres.

22-250 and 243 are obviously flatter, but they are quite a bit more expensive to run with reload components and barrel life. They are also louder which scares the roos more.

I'm trying the judging half the distance trick, haven't quite got it yet but I'll keep persevering.

Even if I did have a rangefinder, there would not often be time to use it. I already use the fenceposts spacing a bit sometimes, but that's only really useful if you know the spacing - Four spaces..... 40 metres each..... 160 metres..... Hang on, maybe they were at 50 metres on this fence..... 200 metres..... Or were they 35..... 140 metres..... 200 metres or 140 metres..... Hang on, the roo has gone now so it doesn't matter.....


The best thing you can do is set up some targets at 50, 100, 200 and say 250-300m and send some lead down range and see exactly where they are landing that way you will be able to adjust your holdover when needed or buy a cal that's flat shooting out to those ranges and reduce the need to over think it.

From memory I think I had to holdover around 4in or there abouts for the 222 at 200m, I just lined up the tops of their ears and that was good enough for head shots from memory (been a while since I had to think about it) but it was something like that from memory, all depends on the zero I guess or get a scope with setable turrets that can be quickly adjusted to the distances you are shooting at.
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 12 Oct 2018, 6:45 pm

Burris eliminator score had built in range finger. Maybe that's a good option.


Edit.... sorry don't know the name
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by Gwion » 15 Oct 2018, 10:14 pm

As others have suggested, figure out the size of your kill zone and then fifure out you max point blank range for that size target. Limit your shooting to that max point blank range and aim dead center every time.

Yes. Judging range at night and with a spot is a pain and a skill only acquired with experience. I'm hopeless at it so try to keep myself well within limits.
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by Archie » 16 Oct 2018, 12:05 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:This would be the perfect solution, probably why the military use them

Sit down before you look at the price though.

https://s8productsgroup.com.au/products/swr-radius


I don't quite get how that would work. If it's pointed at the same angle as your barrel, well, then it'll be looking at the sky on long shots. If it's angled lower than the barrel, then presumably the angle would still need to adjust with the range. Am I missing something?
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by wildcard6 » 16 Oct 2018, 2:04 pm

You are sighted about right for a .223. One possible issue may be at work here. The decent group shot off a bench can get bigger when shooting from a less steady rest in the scrub. This means that those middle-distance shots might be holding closer to a 2" group and if you are taking head shots, the mid-range trajectory might be seeing the bullets go a bit high. Instead of top-of-head shots, try holding on the CENTRE of head to give yourself a little leeway high/low.
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by bladeracer » 16 Oct 2018, 2:22 pm

Archie wrote:
Gaznazdiak wrote:This would be the perfect solution, probably why the military use them

Sit down before you look at the price though.

https://s8productsgroup.com.au/products/swr-radius


I don't quite get how that would work. If it's pointed at the same angle as your barrel, well, then it'll be looking at the sky on long shots. If it's angled lower than the barrel, then presumably the angle would still need to adjust with the range. Am I missing something?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0t3sMdW9Jg

It has a visible laser so you can see where it is lasing the range. I don't believe it lases where the rifle's crosshair is.
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by zobster » 20 Oct 2018, 3:43 pm

My 2 cents worth.

Maybe you can get a scope with mildot reticle or some sort of hash marks etc. Fixed your zoom say at 6x and never adjust it. Set targets at 50, 100, 150, 200, 250, 300. Make the targets with a roo head as the bullseye. Look down the scope and start shooting, after practice, I reckon you'll be able to tell how big a roo head @ 'x' meters look in your scope and you'll be able to adjust accordingly.
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by Gaznazdiak » 20 Oct 2018, 5:17 pm

Archie wrote:
Gaznazdiak wrote:This would be the perfect solution, probably why the military use them

Sit down before you look at the price though.

https://s8productsgroup.com.au/products/swr-radius


I don't quite get how that would work. If it's pointed at the same angle as your barrel, well, then it'll be looking at the sky on long shots. If it's angled lower than the barrel, then presumably the angle would still need to adjust with the range. Am I missing something?


I've never used one Archie, and at the price asked I never will, but as it was/is a standard piece of kit on many special forces M4's, I don't imagine they would be using them much beyond 300-350m.
Some further info/sales blurb below.
Still looks like a nice piece of kit but at a silly price.

https://silencerco.com/blog/2016/05/04/swr-radius/
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by bigfellascott » 21 Oct 2018, 5:14 am

This is what I usually use to work out how far things are away from me.

Vortex 1000 Rangefinder, it's nice and compact and light and does a good job for my needs, helps make those long range shots on bunnies heads that much easier to achieve. From memory it cost me $350 2nd hand but new condition.

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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by marksman » 21 Oct 2018, 1:30 pm

not having a go at the vortex rangefinder big fella but the condor is a bigger bang for your buck :thumbsup:

http://www.condorgolf.com.au/rangefinde ... inder.html
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by bigfellascott » 21 Oct 2018, 1:39 pm

marksman wrote:not having a go at the vortex rangefinder big fella but the condor is a bigger bang for your buck :thumbsup:

http://www.condorgolf.com.au/rangefinde ... inder.html


Looks good mate, only diff would be the lifetime warranty of the Vortex, not sure that one would offer it but it should do the job I would say.

http://www.vortexoptics.com/discontinue ... angefinder
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Re: How to judge distance and trajectory?

Post by Gaznazdiak » 21 Oct 2018, 3:30 pm

bigfellascott wrote:This is what I usually use to work out how far things are away from me.

Vortex 1000 Rangefinder, it's nice and compact and light and does a good job for my needs, helps make those long range shots on bunnies heads that much easier to achieve. From memory it cost me $350 2nd hand but new condition.

Image


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