Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

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Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by TassieTiger » 18 Nov 2018, 6:16 pm

So I’ve recently purchased a steyr 30-06 and oncevthe Leo scope turns up - I’ll be straight into sighting it in...or so I thought.

The local gun shop owner as well as others have said that the barrel may not shoot consistently until 50 or maybe even 100 shots are through...what are ppls thoughts or experiences with this??

Also - being that this is my first real out of box centrefire (that I’ll care consistently for) is there a preferred method to working the barrel in / cleaning regime?

Appreciate any, all advice - I’ve heard so many different opinions (from all walks of life) and I know that opinions will vary/multiply here but I guess it’s good to hear from those that I know are true / regular shooters and it promotes discussion regardless.
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by Diamond Jim » 18 Nov 2018, 6:34 pm

It depends who you ask. Some will say "just go and shoot it" others have a specific run-in procedure. I'd look at high end barrel manufacturers for guidance but, for what it is worth, I've followed a run-in routine with all my new rifles.
Shoot, clean after each round for 5 rounds.
Shoot 5 rounds, clean for a total of 25 rounds.
After that, clean after every outing whether you shoot 1 or lots more.

That's just me as guided by what others suggest. I have no evidence it does anything to make a barrel better but I have no evidence it hurts either. Many say it is no use at all and some say it is harmful to a barrel.
If you research this topic it has been covered many times. You just need to pick a side and go with it. I don't think there is any right or wrong. I just err on the side of caution.
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by duncan61 » 18 Nov 2018, 7:03 pm

100 percent with Jim some say don't bother but I have done it with Ruger .222 and Howa .243.The 7mm R.E.M. Mag was done by previous owner with 5 shot and clean followed by 5 two shots then clean
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by SCJ429 » 18 Nov 2018, 7:11 pm

Everyone has their own ideas and this is only mine. Fire one shot, clean for carbon and then get all the copper out of it. Fire another and repeat. Keep doing this until the copper fouling settles down. Obviously use a copper solvent that works like Boretech. I hope that your barrel finish is pretty high so running in should take twenty to thirty shots. If it is rough with lots of machine marks like a Remington or Winchester it may be much more. You may have to resort to bore paste to help you along it the finish is rough.

Running in is settling down all the machine marks that are vaporising the copper jacket and that copper is deposited near the end of the barrel.. If you don't run in properly and badly copper foul your barrel, no problem, just soak the barrel to totally remove the copper and get back to running in.
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by Kelsey Cooter » 18 Nov 2018, 7:21 pm

Diamond Jim wrote:It depends who you ask. Some will say "just go and shoot it" others have a specific run-in procedure. I'd look at high end barrel manufacturers for guidance but, for what it is worth, I've followed a run-in routine with all my new rifles.
Shoot, clean after each round for 5 rounds.
Shoot 5 rounds, clean for a total of 25 rounds.
After that, clean after every outing whether you shoot 1 or lots more.

That's just me as guided by what others suggest. I have no evidence it does anything to make a barrel better but I have no evidence it hurts either. Many say it is no use at all and some say it is harmful to a barrel.
If you research this topic it has been covered many times. You just need to pick a side and go with it. I don't think there is any right or wrong. I just err on the side of caution.
JIm


I agree with this, I also have no proof it does anything but my thoughts are, if I don't do it and the gun doesn't group well I will feel like maybe its because i didn't put a bit more effort in
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by Roo farmer » 18 Nov 2018, 9:58 pm

Here's an idea that doesn't get mentioned much when this topic is discussed - clean the barrel BEFORE the first shot. Gets rid of any oil or factory grime or filings before the first shot is fired.
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by Member-Deleted » 18 Nov 2018, 10:27 pm

When steel is worked with machines to put the rifling in it is possible to have a slight roughness left behind in the barrel
I presume the cleaning process is to remove the material torn from the bullet on the roughness in the barrel unseen to the naked eye
I have always run my barrels in by shoot and clean for around 25 shots and have found after time the barrel gets easier to clean and doesn't
get as dirty
I don't have any proof that not doing the run in thing harms the barrel but cleaning it surely doesn't either to my findings
Some rifles do shoot better by being fowled especially with a cold bore but that is further down the line from the run in period
If it were me i'd do the run in and be done with it also you get enjoyment out of playing with the new rifle
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by PoorShot300 » 18 Nov 2018, 10:43 pm

I see what your saying farmer, but by the same token, don't the barrels get a "proof" shot, or group shot before shipping?

Maybe I'm giving Remington more credit than due? but i read often of blokes getting new rifles with the Target supplied as proof of MOA claim? I often wondered, as neither of my marlins (one a CT genuine, the other a CT Remlin if going by the serial) had one inside.

The LGS gave me the same run down, a single shot/clean for 5 rounds, then 5x five rounds/clean for 30 rounds total. I must have been lucky as mine stopped fouling copper around the 15 round, but i followed script anyway...the .22 I was told not to worry, as the performance improves with a little lead anyway. How true that is I don't know, but atm is still shooting consistent, but I did give both a patch clean before shooting just to clean out the factory oil..
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by bigfellascott » 19 Nov 2018, 12:00 am

Salt and Pepper is a great seasoning for anything, give it a go :D
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by Stix » 19 Nov 2018, 12:11 am

Roo farmer wrote:Here's an idea that doesn't get mentioned much when this topic is discussed - clean the barrel BEFORE the first shot. Gets rid of any oil or factory grime or filings before the first shot is fired.


Gets rid of metal filings before first shot is fired.. :shock: .?

Mate the factory fires the rifle to proof test it before you get it... :thumbsup:

Then its (maybe cleaned) packed with grease for rust prevention.
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by Roo farmer » 19 Nov 2018, 6:35 am

Stix wrote:
Gets rid of metal filings before first shot is fired.. :shock: .?

Mate the factory fires the rifle to proof test it before you get it... :thumbsup:

Then its (maybe cleaned) packed with grease for rust prevention.


Okay, I didn't know that rifles were fired at the factory, and I have certainly never had a target supplied with a new rifle.

All I do know, is if you run a brush with some solvent and then run some patches through a brand new Howa, they don't come out white.
Last edited by Roo farmer on 21 Nov 2018, 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by straightshooter » 19 Nov 2018, 7:10 am

Roo farmer wrote:
Stix wrote:
Gets rid of metal filings before first shot is fired.. :shock: .?

Mate the factory fires the rifle to proof test it before you get it... :thumbsup:

Then its (maybe cleaned) packed with grease for rust prevention.


Okay, I didn't know that rifles were fired at the factory, and I have certainly never had a target supplied with a new rifle.

All do know, is if you run a brush with some solvent and then run some patches through a brand new Howa, they don't come out white.


Although it is an elusive quality, common sense should dictate that at least a cleaning patch is pushed through a barrel before firing for the first time.
Most European countries have proof laws. I don't think the US has proof laws but they have pretty aggressive public liability lawyers instead. That said many of the US made rifles I have handled have had what I believe may be proof marks.
The only way I know of 'seasoning' a barrel is with salt and pepper but I don't think it's shooting qualities or even it's culinary qualities will be thereby improved.
This 'seasoning' or 'running in' business is just another one of those myths that is accepted and propagated by less informed people as 'holy writ'.
The quality of a barrel is established for all time at manufacture and it can only go downhill from there with usage or more so with abusage.
No amount of tinkering, cleaning or incantations to the moon god will make a 'silk purse from a sow's ear'.
But improper excessive cleaning will certainly accelerate it's demise.
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by Bill » 20 Nov 2018, 9:46 pm

20 shots clean the barrel, then shoot away, I'm a assuming its a budget hammer forged steyr ?? barrel should be well made and ready to go.
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by Stix » 20 Nov 2018, 10:34 pm

Roo farmer wrote:
Stix wrote:
Gets rid of metal filings before first shot is fired.. :shock: .?

Mate the factory fires the rifle to proof test it before you get it... :thumbsup:

Then its (maybe cleaned) packed with grease for rust prevention.


Okay, I didn't know that rifles were fired at the factory, and I have certainly never had a target supplied with a new rifle.

All do know, is if you run a brush with some solvent and then run some patches through a brand new Howa, they don't come out white.


Sorry if i came accross abrupt--didnt mean to... :D

As straightshooter says, common sense dictates cleaning a new barrel.

They are coated in something for rust prevention hence why a patch in a new barrel will be dirty.

I just assumed all rifles are fired in a factory to ensure they are safe.

But id be worried if you get metal filings out of a new rifle before you fire it...
If i had that id take it back before i fired it.
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by Stix » 20 Nov 2018, 10:37 pm

bigfellascott wrote:Salt and Pepper is a great seasoning for anything, give it a go :D


Is that how you get rid of your empty beer cans bigfella...?
:lol:
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by bigfellascott » 21 Nov 2018, 12:44 am

Stix wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:Salt and Pepper is a great seasoning for anything, give it a go :D


Is that how you get rid of your empty beer cans bigfella...?
:lol:


:lol: Nope I just keep the empties and cash em in so I can buy fulls ones :D
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by Diamond Jim » 21 Nov 2018, 2:45 am

My understanding is that the factory proof targets are "proof of function" not "proof of accuracy". They don't test multiple ammo brands and tailor a home-brew reload to every barrel It's just a verification that the rifle functions, fires and doesn't spray.
As I understand it, they clamp the rifle and rack three shots of factory ammo through as fast as possible. Not really an accuracy test.
I cleaned all of mine and ran the break in procedure. I don't know if it helped but I don't think it hurt.
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by bigrich » 21 Nov 2018, 4:56 am

Diamond Jim wrote:It depends who you ask. Some will say "just go and shoot it" others have a specific run-in procedure. I'd look at high end barrel manufacturers for guidance but, for what it is worth, I've followed a run-in routine with all my new rifles.
Shoot, clean after each round for 5 rounds.
Shoot 5 rounds, clean for a total of 25 rounds.
After that, clean after every outing whether you shoot 1 or lots more.

That's just me as guided by what others suggest. I have no evidence it does anything to make a barrel better but I have no evidence it hurts either. Many say it is no use at all and some say it is harmful to a barrel.
If you research this topic it has been covered many times. You just need to pick a side and go with it. I don't think there is any right or wrong. I just err on the side of caution.
JIm


I’ve had new barrels fitted by Allan swan and from memory this was the run in procedure he advised. Rifles are manufactured metal products. A car is more complicated, but would you get a new car, cane the crap out of it, overheating bearings and seals, and still expect it to last a long time ? I’d rather take the time to run in a rifle I’ve paid good money for to make sure I get a lot of good accurate use. Cheers
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by straightshooter » 21 Nov 2018, 6:51 am

If somebody, anywhere in the googleverse, were to offer an explanation based on factual metrologically traceable observation as to the efficacy of 'barrel break in' rather than speculative gobbledygook then I will be the first to admit I am wrong.
It seems to me to be just a myth that gets reinforced by it's retelling and if anything it just accelerates wear in barrels.
Now look at the 'big picture' as the former grim reaper national treasurer was fond of saying. More wear in barrels leads to more barrel sales, more wear in rifles leads to more rifle sales.
What would you say to a tyre maker advising you to follow a procedure of numerous sequential burn outs to break in your tyres?
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by SCJ429 » 21 Nov 2018, 7:07 am

The best people to give you advice are barrel makers, Dan Lilja have posted advice about this which is available online. If you think barrel makers only tell you this to help wear out your barrel, then this advice will have no weight. For me, the amount of copper deposited during run in needs to be removed. If you don't the barrel will become heavily fouled and never shoot.
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 21 Nov 2018, 7:09 am

If you ask Krieger in youtube he said what run it, shoot it from day one. Many others say run it in. Some say that's hissy good for business for barrel makers. I dunno who is right.

I cleaned first and then run in my barrel. About 20 shots. Alan swan mentioned similar 1 shot then clean, repeat for 5 shots. Then clean every 3 rounds till reach 20. I am no expert but I reckon 20 is not many and it's fun shooting
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by Roo farmer » 21 Nov 2018, 9:33 am

Stix wrote:
Sorry if i came accross abrupt--didnt mean to... :D

As straightshooter says, common sense dictates cleaning a new barrel.

They are coated in something for rust prevention hence why a patch in a new barrel will be dirty.

I just assumed all rifles are fired in a factory to ensure they are safe.

But id be worried if you get metal filings out of a new rifle before you fire it...
If i had that id take it back before i fired it.
:drinks:


No worries mate, I didn't take it as being abrupt.

When I said filings, I didn't mean chips and chunks of swarf. I meant any tiny iron powder particles that might be in there. I might be wrong. But if I am, what is the black stuff that comes out on a patch that you put through a brand new rifle barrel? And really, I don't think it matters what it is, I think it should be cleaned out first before you fire the first shot and get all worried about whether to follow a break in procedure or not.
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by Oldbloke » 21 Nov 2018, 9:39 am

I only give it a good clean before the first shot.. Then perhaps after each shot give it a basic clean for first 3 or 4 shots.

Then use as normal.
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by bigrich » 21 Nov 2018, 12:10 pm

straightshooter wrote:If somebody, anywhere in the googleverse, were to offer an explanation based on factual metrologically traceable observation as to the efficacy of 'barrel break in' rather than speculative gobbledygook then I will be the first to admit I am wrong.
It seems to me to be just a myth that gets reinforced by it's retelling and if anything it just accelerates wear in barrels.
Now look at the 'big picture' as the former grim reaper national treasurer was fond of saying. More wear in barrels leads to more barrel sales, more wear in rifles leads to more rifle sales.
What would you say to a tyre maker advising you to follow a procedure of numerous sequential burn outs to break in your tyres?


metal on metal wear is the issue. expensive rifles often have hand lapped barrels to help with the wear in procedure. a lot of rifles have rough machined barrels which foul easily with copper when new which would accelerate preasures and wear . if your trying to force a bullet at 2900 FPS down a barrel thats got excess fouling in it somethings going to give or expand .after many years in the old car scene, i can tell ya alot of stories about people regarding break in procedures for everything from fresh motors and gearboxes to brake pads and wheel bearings. and some fellas having to rebuild a motor costing thousands cause they were too impatient to "run in" a set of camshaft lifters or having front wheel bearing failure after only six months because they paid no attention to adjustment during wear in. and in car racing the tyre tread in some classes are "buffed" to a angle/camber to suit the front/rear of the vehicle . i can't see patching and brushing wearing out a barrel. if it does you're doing something wrong. if someone who makes barrels that win competitions advises you that this will help, wouldn't ya do it ? you can take or leave my statement, it was intended to enlighten, not critisize . :thumbsup:
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by marksman » 21 Nov 2018, 4:43 pm

The real reasoning for running a barrel in is to get rid of a burr left behind after making the barrel or burrs from chambering
even expensive hand lapped barrels can have a burr the length of the barrel on a land, I have seen them with a borescope
the burr can only be burnt off hence the need for cleaning the barrel so it can be burnt off, why clean if there is nothing to clean :unknown:
if your barrel does not foul with copper what are you cleaning :unknown:
you should clean before shooting then inspect the bore down the muzzle for traces of copper if there is none shoot again till there is :wtf:

Gail Mcmillan said that it is an ozzie barrel maker he taught that started the fad with barrel break in

http://www.6mmbr.com/GailMcMbreakin.html

http://www.snipercountry.com/barrel-break-in/

but if it makes you feel all fuzzy and warm go nut's :thumbsup: :drinks: :drinks: :drinks: :drinks:
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by bigrich » 21 Nov 2018, 5:11 pm

i'm warm and fuzzy at the best of times MM, i just like to clean new barrels cause i'm OCD :lol: :lol: :lol: :drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by bigfellascott » 21 Nov 2018, 5:50 pm

bigrich wrote:
Diamond Jim wrote:It depends who you ask. Some will say "just go and shoot it" others have a specific run-in procedure. I'd look at high end barrel manufacturers for guidance but, for what it is worth, I've followed a run-in routine with all my new rifles.
Shoot, clean after each round for 5 rounds.
Shoot 5 rounds, clean for a total of 25 rounds.
After that, clean after every outing whether you shoot 1 or lots more.

That's just me as guided by what others suggest. I have no evidence it does anything to make a barrel better but I have no evidence it hurts either. Many say it is no use at all and some say it is harmful to a barrel.
If you research this topic it has been covered many times. You just need to pick a side and go with it. I don't think there is any right or wrong. I just err on the side of caution.
JIm


I’ve had new barrels fitted by Allan swan and from memory this was the run in procedure he advised. Rifles are manufactured metal products. A car is more complicated, but would you get a new car, cane the crap out of it, overheating bearings and seals, and still expect it to last a long time ? I’d rather take the time to run in a rifle I’ve paid good money for to make sure I get a lot of good accurate use. Cheers


I don’t reckon they baby drag car engines much :D
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by TassieTiger » 21 Nov 2018, 6:25 pm

So, despite advice to the contrary...
I swabbed the barrel pre shooting and it was pretty black. 5 tissues later, cleanish.
I then fired 6 shots and swabbed the main funk out with a couple tissues and a nylon.
I fired another 10 shots and then used a little copper solvent and thoroughly cleaned again with nylon and tissue.
I then fired 3 more to get into paper and 2 follow up to close group.
Cleaned once more - pretty vaguely this time and I’m feeling next session will be on a bench to dial in and that will be her...loving the gun so far but fug me those set triggers are insanely light. Did not even register on the trigger pull gauge...
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by Diamond Jim » 21 Nov 2018, 7:16 pm

bigfellascott wrote:
bigrich wrote:
Diamond Jim wrote:It depends who you ask. Some will say "just go and shoot it" others have a specific run-in procedure. I'd look at high end barrel manufacturers for guidance but, for what it is worth, I've followed a run-in routine with all my new rifles.
Shoot, clean after each round for 5 rounds.
Shoot 5 rounds, clean for a total of 25 rounds.
After that, clean after every outing whether you shoot 1 or lots more.

That's just me as guided by what others suggest. I have no evidence it does anything to make a barrel better but I have no evidence it hurts either. Many say it is no use at all and some say it is harmful to a barrel.
If you research this topic it has been covered many times. You just need to pick a side and go with it. I don't think there is any right or wrong. I just err on the side of caution.
JIm


I’ve had new barrels fitted by Allan swan and from memory this was the run in procedure he advised. Rifles are manufactured metal products. A car is more complicated, but would you get a new car, cane the crap out of it, overheating bearings and seals, and still expect it to last a long time ? I’d rather take the time to run in a rifle I’ve paid good money for to make sure I get a lot of good accurate use. Cheers


I don’t reckon they baby drag car engines much :D


That's true but then the serious teams re-build motors after each race meeting and often between races. They are not built for endurance or longevity.

Ultimately it is up to the individual to do what he/she is comfortable with. I'm not going to criticise anyone for not running in their own barrel but I'll continue to do a break-in routine because my rifle belongs to me.

I remember picking up a brand-new Landcruiser and someone from the dealership asked for a lift. He was stunned that I sat in the carpark and actually read the manufacturers recommended run-in procedure before driving off and more surprised when I religiously followed that procedure. 27 years later with basic servicing that ute has clocked up over 600,000 km with no major issues. Maybe it helped, maybe it didn't but I'm convinced it didn't hurt.
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Re: Seasoning a new barrel and cleaning

Post by marksman » 21 Nov 2018, 8:06 pm

TassieTiger wrote:So, despite advice to the contrary...
I swabbed the barrel pre shooting and it was pretty black. 5 tissues later, cleanish.
I then fired 6 shots and swabbed the main funk out with a couple tissues and a nylon.
I fired another 10 shots and then used a little copper solvent and thoroughly cleaned again with nylon and tissue.
I then fired 3 more to get into paper and 2 follow up to close group.
Cleaned once more - pretty vaguely this time and I’m feeling next session will be on a bench to dial in and that will be her...loving the gun so far but fug me those set triggers are insanely light. Did not even register on the trigger pull gauge...


it is really about what you want to do :drinks:
if you want to break in the barrel good for you but if you dont, it dont matter
just keep an eye on the copper looking down the bore into the muzzle with a torch
I have seen rifles that need quite a few rounds through it before they settle down and shoot consistently
but others that dont need any at all, I like hand lapped stainless barrels that are good from the get go :drinks:
I did find what Gail Mcmillan had to say interesting :thumbsup:
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