Martini Cadet new barrel.

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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by Stix » 17 Mar 2020, 9:10 pm

gunnnie wrote:Alan Swan had done numerous Cadet builds over the past 30+yrs that I've known of him. Currently he is finishing off a custom Martini build for me chambered in 20-222Rimmed. I also have another Cadet action waiting for a PTA and this will go to Alan as well. I'm looking at a 25cal build, possibly 25-222Rimmed or maybe 256Maxi.
I'm also going to pass an Afghannie Kyber Pass Martini Henry to Alan for another project, an 18" barrelled single shot in 45LC. I trust Alan with such bulls and he is the only one I'd consider for a custom Martini build.
As for timber, Geoff Slee is unfortunately no longer with us, but Cameron Hatcher has a lot of his gear and profiles. Cameron has add Martini Cadet stocks to his inventory and while I don't have one of his stocks, yet, they certainly look good.
Custom chamber wise, I have seen these actions chambered in anything from 22LR up to 30-30. Currently, my little collection consists of a Sportco 22 Clubmaster, BSA 12/15 22LR, 17Ackley Hornet, 22K-Hornet, 17-222rimmed, 20-222Rimmed, 222Rimmed & 357Mag. As well as three original 310Cadets. They're great rifles/actions and a worthy addition to every shooter's safe.


Hey gunnnie
Have you got pics of them to put up...?
Id love to see them... :)

Also, how does your 17 & 20 222R's shoot...?
And why a second 20-222R...?...you like them that much or is it the one you refer to in the post...?

:drinks:
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by gunnnie » 18 Mar 2020, 7:42 pm

Hey Stix,
Yeah only the one 20-222Rimmed; just gave a full listing.
I actually haven't got a pic of the group. But do have one of the 17AH & the 17-222rimmed. Think those pics are on the AHN gallery. I'll check this forum for a gallery to post pics to.

The 17-222rimmed is yet to be shot as I had to sort out some loads for it. The 20cal is ready to be picked up from Allan next week, so will have to wait a while before I can comment on it. I've been sent some good base line load data to work up from, based on rimless versions of both cartridges. I should be able to get decent enough velocities from both without making my life difficult with extraction. Looking fwd to shooting both actually.
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by bladeracer » 19 Mar 2020, 1:04 am

My local has a Martini Cadet in .297/250. I did a bit of research, and it's easy enough to make the brass from .22 Hornet.
But it also struck me that a simple chamber adapter to allow firing .25ACP is maybe an easier option for those that might not be into reloading.
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by Maxjon » 13 Apr 2020, 6:24 pm

gunnnie wrote:Another one you could contact is Tobler. I have a cadet that they built in 357mag. Straight 1.5" dia 24" long, I call it the 'Franken-Cadet'. But it certainly shoots 200gn JSP pills very well.

++1 for Swanny. He's my go to man for anything Martini Cadet.

I just ordered a .357 magnum barrel too! Is yours 12 twist?? How does it shoot?
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by gunnnie » 13 Apr 2020, 7:59 pm

To be honest, I'm not sure what the twist rate is. I'll have to measure it.
I've run some heavy JSP pills thru it for reasonable results, but I wouldn't say it's a tack driver!
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by Maxjon » 13 Apr 2020, 9:00 pm

gunnnie wrote:To be honest, I'm not sure what the twist rate is. I'll have to measure it.
I've run some heavy JSP pills thru it for reasonable results, but I wouldn't say it's a tack driver!


I'm hoping for big things at 50m with my build.
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by Shootaholic » 15 Apr 2020, 11:03 am

Hi all,
I'm new to the forum and have a common interest in re furbishing a Martini.
I've been looking at cases around the 310 capacity but in .30 cal, thinking of 300 Blackout. Anyone know of this caliber being tried in a Cadet. As I see it the rimless extractor is the main issue, so where do I look for one.
Also, I saw some pics of really nice Martini's on the forum with some great wood work, any advice on who is a good stock maker.
Would appreciate any guidance
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by Maxjon » 15 Apr 2020, 6:43 pm

Shootaholic wrote:Hi all,
I'm new to the forum and have a common interest in re furbishing a Martini.
I've been looking at cases around the 310 capacity but in .30 cal, thinking of 300 Blackout. Anyone know of this caliber being tried in a Cadet. As I see it the rimless extractor is the main issue, so where do I look for one.
Also, I saw some pics of really nice Martini's on the forum with some great wood work, any advice on who is a good stock maker.
Would appreciate any guidance
Shootaholic
WA


Gday shooterholic. I too am interested where to find extractors, rimless or other. Hatchers rifle stocks does decent wood for them, as I understand. I think he took over Geoff Slee rifle stocks business when he passed away. Geoff was a real craftsman.
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by gunnnie » 15 Apr 2020, 7:11 pm

Shootaholic wrote:Hi all,
I'm new to the forum and have a common interest in re furbishing a Martini.
I've been looking at cases around the 310 capacity but in .30 cal, thinking of 300 Blackout. Anyone know of this caliber being tried in a Cadet. As I see it the rimless extractor is the main issue, so where do I look for one.
Also, I saw some pics of really nice Martini's on the forum with some great wood work, any advice on who is a good stock maker.
Would appreciate any guidance
Shootaholic
WA


Timber work for these, try contacting Cameron Hatcher of Hatcher's Stock in VIC. Cam has classic style stocks for the Martini Cadet.

As for the rimless extractor, problem is, there is no commercial manufacturer of such a beast. Years ago there was the Snapp's Rimless Extractor, but I've never been able to find one. Your best bet is to find a gunsmith you has a wealth of experience working with these actions, who may be able to make a suitable rimless extractor system to suit. May I suggest Alan Swan of Swan's Barrels, here in SE QLD. Alan has a wealth of experience and knowledge with these actions and is my go to man for anything Cadet. He has built a 20-222Rimmed for me recently (can't pick it up due to this dammed CV BS) and I've seen a number of his past custom builds on Cadet actions.

Maybe you could look at something like a 30cal wildcat based on the Bertramm 222Rimmed case. This would negate the need for a rimless extractor. Another option would be a 30cal based on the 357Maximum case.

Goggle Swan's Barrels and give Alan a call. It'll be the best first step in your project I would think.
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by gunnnie » 15 Apr 2020, 7:14 pm

I just ordered a .357 magnum barrel too! Is yours 12 twist?? How does it shoot?[/quote]

Dragged the Franken-Cadet out this arvo and measured the twist rate. It worked out at 1:15" twist. Bit slower than the 1:12 you mention.
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by SillyWetTas » 16 Apr 2020, 10:12 am

You can form 300 blackout from 357 maximum cases with blackout fl die
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by Maxjon » 16 Apr 2020, 10:19 am

SillyWetTas wrote:You can form 300 blackout from 357 maximum cases with blackout fl die


I'd like to see that.....
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by in2anity » 16 Apr 2020, 10:46 am

Shootaholic wrote:Hi all,
...
I've been looking at cases around the 310 capacity but in .30 cal, thinking of 300 Blackout. Anyone know of this caliber being tried in a Cadet.
...

SillyWetTas wrote:You can form 300 blackout from 357 maximum cases with blackout fl die


A rimmed blackout case in a Martini - now there's something new 8-) I really like the recoil and small cartridge size of the blackout, and that you can use many 30cal pills - so much so, I've got a slower 1:10 barrel on order from Lothar-Walther, should be arriving in June.

For best performance, a flat-base ~120gr pill over a full case of fast-burning rifle powder yields resepectable velocities - in the realms of 2100-2200fps. A standard 1:7" twist for the blackout is a bit of a "catch-all"; good for a wide range of pills erring on the heavier side. But if you'll only ever stick to light supers, better to go with a slower twist, like a 1:10".

300blk-stabilization.png
This is a helpful chart
300blk-stabilization.png (82.16 KiB) Viewed 9894 times
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by Bill » 16 Apr 2020, 12:57 pm

Shootaholic wrote:Hi all,
I'm new to the forum and have a common interest in re furbishing a Martini.
I've been looking at cases around the 310 capacity but in .30 cal, thinking of 300 Blackout. Anyone know of this caliber being tried in a Cadet. As I see it the rimless extractor is the main issue, so where do I look for one.
Also, I saw some pics of really nice Martini's on the forum with some great wood work, any advice on who is a good stock maker.
Would appreciate any guidance
Shootaholic
WA



I have some new 357 Maximum brass if ya need it, easiest conversion would be the 310/357 magnum, my gunsmith builds a few of these. :thumbsup:
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by MJW380 » 25 Apr 2020, 6:16 pm

Sorry if I’m hijacking a topic a bit, but after reading this it’s peaked my interest in getting a .310 cadet, I’d only want it to be original, or original as possible, not rechambered/barreled to something else. Having said that, what should I be looking for and at what price range (approx)? Thanks in advance.
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by Maxjon » 25 Apr 2020, 6:20 pm

MJW380 wrote:Sorry if I’m hijacking a topic a bit, but after reading this it’s peaked my interest in getting a .310 cadet, I’d only want it to be original, or original as possible, not rechambered/barreled to something else. Having said that, what should I be looking for and at what price range (approx)? Thanks in advance.


Yes you need an original also! A house is not home without one.. or ten!
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by johnboy357 » 28 Apr 2020, 3:13 pm

The martini Cadet had been around for many years in .310 calibre but then in the late 1950's along came an Australian gunsmith named Arthur Langsford - he transformed the Cadet with his Myra range of cartridges. They were originally based on the .222 Remington necked up to - 243 Myra, 257Myra and the 270 Myra (may have been a 30 cal one but I am not sure) These were all for bolt action rifles. Arthur then turned to the Martini Cadet and based the same cartridges on the Aussie 222 Rimed - the perfect solution for any Cadet conversion.
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by gunnnie » 30 Apr 2020, 2:39 pm

MJW380 wrote:Sorry if I’m hijacking a topic a bit, but after reading this it’s peaked my interest in getting a .310 cadet, I’d only want it to be original, or original as possible, not rechambered/barreled to something else. Having said that, what should I be looking for and at what price range (approx)? Thanks in advance.


Mate, see no-one has responded with any feedback for you yet.
There are a fair few original Cadets kicking round on second hand gun sales websites. Prices can vary a little but on the whole, anything around the $300-375 mark is about right for one.

Now, you can always keep your eyes out for one that was issued to your home state and these are stamped accodingly on both the action (right side) and the stock butt, (also right side). There are two versions, the Mk I & the Mk II, differences being the rear sight. The better option is the Mk II as the rear sight is adjustable for elevation & windage.

Another thing to be wary of is the bore size! The Cadets are notorious for variance in bore diameter which can range from .312" right up to .323" . This was due to having different barrel manufacturers and specs for the Cadets over the period of production for the Australian contract. Your best option is to look for a BSA stamped action/bbl as this should be around the .312-.314" mark. That said, there are suppliers of cast projectiles to suit bores of the varying sizes. HRBC, most notably, whom supply projo's in .321" 128gn for the larger bores.

Another thing to note is the differences in projectile, being heeled and non-heeled. The heeled design came about due to the larger bore barrels and problems caused with the military factory jacketed ammo for the .312" original barrels. The factory military ammo would rattle down the barrel of the later made tubes, providing horrendous accuracy. Or should I say a lack of any accuracy!

So, it would be advantageous to verify the bore of any Cadet that you're looking to buy. Talk to the previous owner if at all possible and ask what projos they used in the rifle. If not able to find out, then I'd advocate contacting someone here and I dare say we'd happily send you a few different diameter cast pills to try. The first initial test is to place a projectile into the bore at the muzzle and see how far it enters before stopping. If a large bore and a small propjo, well you see where I'm going with this.

Reloading, there's a plethora of data on reloading for the 310Cadet round. Just google it and start reading. I'd advocate steering clear on any loads using AR2205 as this powder just doesn't seem to work in this cartridge and has a habit of leaving a lot of un-burnt powder in the bore. Which will cause problems with chambering subsequent rounds etc.

Pistol powders seem to be better suited. The venerable Muxwex AP70N was ideal, burnt dirty yes, but proved to be very efficient and could produce good accurate loads. Sadly, it's no longer available, so we just have to wait for it's replacement.

The Martini Cadet 310 is a great little rifle and part of Australia's military history. They are fun to shoot, low recoil, low noise, cheap to reload for and a great rifle for beginners/kids to learn on as a first centre-fire. Once you've got your first, don't be surprised if you soon chase up another! Have fun searching
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by MJW380 » 01 May 2020, 8:51 am

Thanks gunnnie, that’s the kind of thing I was looking for.
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by gunnnie » 02 May 2020, 1:04 pm

MJW380 wrote:Thanks gunnnie, that’s the kind of thing I was looking for.

:thumbsup: Not a problem mate. Happy to help where I can.
Further to my last post, there is ammo available via Gold Coast Reloads. Can be pricey though!
Bruce Bertram makes brass that's not too pricey and better quality than older Super stamped brass. As for dies, I'd strongly recommend you get a set of Master Simplex. Bill has the right specs for the cartridge so you can produce good reliable ammo.
If you are able to or want to, casting your own projo's for the Cadet, is the way to go.
CBE has several moulds to allow producing projo's to suit your rifles bore.

Good luck with the chase.
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by Shootaholic » 22 May 2020, 10:41 am

Bill wrote:
Shootaholic wrote:Hi all,
I'm new to the forum and have a common interest in re furbishing a Martini.
I've been looking at cases around the 310 capacity but in .30 cal, thinking of 300 Blackout. Anyone know of this caliber being tried in a Cadet. As I see it the rimless extractor is the main issue, so where do I look for one.
Also, I saw some pics of really nice Martini's on the forum with some great wood work, any advice on who is a good stock maker.
Would appreciate any guidance
Shootaholic
WA



I have some new 357 Maximum brass if ya need it, easiest conversion would be the 310/357 magnum, my gunsmith builds a few of these. :thumbsup:


Hi Bill,
I've been offline for too long and finally got to see all the great offers and suggestions.
I had thought of running 222 rimmed cases into the blackout die, but your suggestion of using the 357 max case would be the easiest option. I bought some Starline Blackout brass, but could sell that off.
I've really got the Martini bug now, and checked my stash of Dealer rifles to realise I had four Martini's . So the 256 Mag is now on the radar .
I've spoken with Ken Davis over here in Perth regarding the stock work, does great work.
Regards
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by in2anity » 22 May 2020, 10:52 am

Shootaholic wrote:Hi Bill,
I've been offline for too long and finally got to see all the great offers and suggestions.
I had thought of running 222 rimmed cases into the blackout die, but your suggestion of using the 357 max case would be the easiest option. I bought some Starline Blackout brass, but could sell that off.
I've really got the Martini bug now, and checked my stash of Dealer rifles to realise I had four Martini's . So the 256 Mag is now on the radar .
I've spoken with Ken Davis over here in Perth regarding the stock work, does great work.
Regards
Shootaholic


Mate keep us posted if you do end up building this - the blackout/max has certainly caught my attention. I regularly shoot both .311 and .308, and there are are a heap more "bargains bulk buys" for .308 projectiles than there are .311. Speer's lineup spings to mind.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by Shootaholic » 02 Jun 2020, 8:20 am

Hi All,
I've got the action almost completely polished apart from reshaping the lever for a pistol grip stock,.Then I'll send it to Allan for the 300 Blackout barrel, Spoke to Allan about machining it to hexagonal from the front of the fore grip to muzzle, should look mint. Have followed your advice and ordered some 357 max Starline cases which should arrive this week. When Allan has done his bit, Ken Davis over here in Perth will finish it off.
There was a fair bit of interest about a year ago in the 256 Win mag, Has anyone gone with that sweet little round. I know Allan has the reamer for it?.
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by in2anity » 02 Jun 2020, 9:10 am

Excited to see how this turns out Shootaholic. When forming brass, the thicker 223 brass "springs back" more than spec 300blk, meaning an uncomforably tight fit on the shoulder. Not sure how max brass will compare. I had to come up with a way to bump further on that initial form. I did this by grinding a spare shell holder 15 thou which enables the shell to "go deeper" into the die (and bump the shoulder just a tad more). Neck size per usual after that. There are other ways of overcoming this problem. Food for thought.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by gunnnie » 03 Jun 2020, 7:56 pm

Shootaholic wrote:Hi All,
I've got the action almost completely polished apart from reshaping the lever for a pistol grip stock,.Then I'll send it to Allan for the 300 Blackout barrel, Spoke to Allan about machining it to hexagonal from the front of the fore grip to muzzle, should look mint. Have followed your advice and ordered some 357 max Starline cases which should arrive this week. When Allan has done his bit, Ken Davis over here in Perth will finish it off.
There was a fair bit of interest about a year ago in the 256 Win mag, Has anyone gone with that sweet little round. I know Allan has the reamer for it?.


I've got a spare Cadet action that will be getting some custom love from Alan soon. I'm fairly certain it'll be a 257cal, just haven't settled on exactly which one. Front contender at the moment is the 256WMag, but the improved version has recently popped in my line of sight. Which certainly ticks a lot of my likes boxes: unusual, not very common, suited to the Cadet action.
There also the 25-35, again another interesting old timer. Then all this talk of the 30/357Max, bugger, choices, choices.
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by Shootaholic » 05 Jun 2020, 8:12 am

Just looked up the 25/35, definitely would be a good cartridge for Aussie game, but l like the 256 WM as its size ie close to the original 310 and therefore suits the action with very minimal fitting to the extractor.
I’m waiting for Allan to finish his price list for barrel action work, to decide if l can afford to get the 300 blackout and 256 done together. The cost of sending anything gun related from Perth is a rip off.
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by CamLeF » 23 Jul 2020, 12:45 am

Hey fellas

New on here, first post.
Been a life-long shooter, and have had a little bit of time behind a 22mag cadet that simply shot some of the tightest groups I've ever shot.
Just about to kick off a custom build on a cadet that I got for nothing from a mate. Going for 25-35. Going to do it in a couple of stages, first re-barrel, get functioning as a "using-gun", later on some nice woodwork.
Looking at a TSE barrel, looking to go for a heavy sporter/varmint profile, plan is to use 60gn for hopping critters and probably 90-100gn for meat shooting fallow does. 308 with 150gn tends to ruin too much meat.
Got a few things that I haven't worked out yet, and willing to take whatever advice I can get. Rifle is a 22 Hornet currently, so I don't think it's historically significant or anything, so I feel comfortable in taking it a long way from the original configuration.
If any of you blokes have any advice you feel like sharing, fire away (pun intended).

Cheers.
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by johnboy357 » 17 Sep 2020, 6:29 pm

The 30Max [357 maximum necked to 30 cal] is a recognized and well respected cartridge for Handgun Silhouette, in the BF range of pistols. Currently having a BF re barreled and chambered in the 30Max. Also getting a 21 inch barrel for my T/C carbine in the same caliber.

Another suggestion - run a standard .357 magnum case into a 300 blackout / 300 whisper FL sizing die - you get a very neat little rimed case but the neck is about 2mm shorter than the full blackout case but it is still a very workable cartridge and looks great with a 130 Grain HP projectile seated to the bottom of the neck. Not a lot bigger than the original 310 round but with a lot more punch.
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by JimTom » 24 May 2022, 5:33 am

So after a few years I have finally come across a cadet which has a rogered barrel. I picked it up for cheap and will have the brand new barrel I have fitted.
Also, anyone hazard a guess where I could source a new bit of front wood for it? Mine looks like someone has cut it down to sporterise it.
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Re: Martini Cadet new barrel.

Post by freddoj » 24 Sep 2022, 6:12 pm

Fredoj
There two tenon threads 14tpi and 16 tpi I do not know what model the 16tpi fits but it has the old ladder sidht and is made by BSA. Good luck
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