which lever gun and pistol caliber

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which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bigrich » 11 Dec 2018, 4:01 pm

hey fellas, thinking about a new plinker/hunting lever gun . i've got a few ideas already, but i'd like some opinions and views. i'm thinking about a 44 mag 20" barrel. thinking 44 as it's got a bit more punch . 357/38 is cheap to shoot i know. i will be reloading. while i really like the idea of a '92 miroku or a winchester, after talking to my local gun shop i'm interested in the rossi lever guns. i looked at a stainless hex barreled 357, and i really liked it. the standard iron sights looked a better thing than the ones i had on a '94 30-30 i used to own. can anyone give me feedback on rossi's ( or opinions on other brands ) and whether or not 357 or 44 mag was a usefull round for pigs . thanks in advance :drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bladeracer » 11 Dec 2018, 4:50 pm

bigrich wrote:hey fellas, thinking about a new plinker/hunting lever gun . i've got a few ideas already, but i'd like some opinions and views. i'm thinking about a 44 mag 20" barrel. thinking 44 as it's got a bit more punch . 357/38 is cheap to shoot i know. i will be reloading. while i really like the idea of a '92 miroku or a winchester, after talking to my local gun shop i'm interested in the rossi lever guns. i looked at a stainless hex barreled 357, and i really liked it. the standard iron sights looked a better thing than the ones i had on a '94 30-30 i used to own. can anyone give me feedback on rossi's ( or opinions on other brands ) and whether or not 357 or 44 mag was a usefull round for pigs . thanks in advance :drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:


I have .44Mag Marlin and .38 Special Uberti, for pig hunting I'd take the .44Mag. I shoot a subsonic 200gn JSP in the .38 Special with good accuracy, but the .44 Magnum hits damned hard, even with relaxed loads.

I also like the Rossi levers but haven't bought them yet.
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bigrich » 11 Dec 2018, 5:18 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bigrich wrote:hey fellas, thinking about a new plinker/hunting lever gun . i've got a few ideas already, but i'd like some opinions and views. i'm thinking about a 44 mag 20" barrel. thinking 44 as it's got a bit more punch . 357/38 is cheap to shoot i know. i will be reloading. while i really like the idea of a '92 miroku or a winchester, after talking to my local gun shop i'm interested in the rossi lever guns. i looked at a stainless hex barreled 357, and i really liked it. the standard iron sights looked a better thing than the ones i had on a '94 30-30 i used to own. can anyone give me feedback on rossi's ( or opinions on other brands ) and whether or not 357 or 44 mag was a usefull round for pigs . thanks in advance :drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:


I have .44Mag Marlin and .38 Special Uberti, for pig hunting I'd take the .44Mag. I shoot a subsonic 200gn JSP in the .38 Special with good accuracy, but the .44 Magnum hits damned hard, even with relaxed loads.

I also like the Rossi levers but haven't bought them yet.


thanks for the reply blade. primarilly i'll probably channel my inner john wayne, and blast away at paper at 50 yards. but 44 mag will give me more of a grin than 357 i reckon. is there much difference in reloading cost between 357 and 44 in your opinion ? :drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bladeracer » 11 Dec 2018, 5:54 pm

bigrich wrote:thanks for the reply blade. primarily i'll probably channel my inner john wayne, and blast away at paper at 50 yards. but 44 mag will give me more of a grin than 357 i reckon. is there much difference in reloading cost between 357 and 44 in your opinion ? :drinks: :thumbsup:


Steel silhouettes really show how hard the .44 hits :-)
Bit more powder, and heavier bullets generally cost more. I can't really say if the difference is significant enough to matter.
Berry's copper-plated bullets shoot very well for me in both rifles, but cast lead shoots pretty nicely in the .38. Getting cast to work in the Marlin is a nightmare due to the rifling.

The Berry's I'm using were about $38/250 for the .38 and $58/200 for the .44 - about 15c and 24c apiece.
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bigrich » 11 Dec 2018, 7:11 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bigrich wrote:thanks for the reply blade. primarily i'll probably channel my inner john wayne, and blast away at paper at 50 yards. but 44 mag will give me more of a grin than 357 i reckon. is there much difference in reloading cost between 357 and 44 in your opinion ? :drinks: :thumbsup:


Steel silhouettes really show how hard the .44 hits :-)
Bit more powder, and heavier bullets generally cost more. I can't really say if the difference is significant enough to matter.
Berry's copper-plated bullets shoot very well for me in both rifles, but cast lead shoots pretty nicely in the .38. Getting cast to work in the Marlin is a nightmare due to the rifling.

The Berry's I'm using were about $38/250 for the .38 and $58/200 for the .44 - about 15c and 24c apiece.


yeh i wasn't keen on a marlin because the rifling isn't real good for lead apparently. what's case life like on 357 and 44 ?

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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by BRNO_Bigot » 11 Dec 2018, 7:13 pm

I used to have Rossi Stainless in Stainless steel - cal 45LC

It was a pleasure - admittedly I loaded it to the high end of TrailBoss, since that was the only set of Lee dippers that got anywhere near where I wanted.

Got to Canberra and stopped shooting Cowboy, so sold it. Would buy it back if it was offered.
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bigpete » 11 Dec 2018, 7:21 pm

Rossi 92 44 mag for the win. Absolutely love mine
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bigrich » 11 Dec 2018, 7:25 pm

you fellas are a terrible influence :lol: . i'm starting to get all hot and bothered for a rossi 44. :) i have heard of feed issues with pistol cartridges in some lever guns . mainly due to the wrong shape of projectile. anyone got any experience in this :unknown:

:drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by Wm.Traynor » 11 Dec 2018, 7:26 pm

My Rossi was a piece of junk. So is my Mossberg. May doG have mercy on your eternal soul for thinking about lever guns :crazy: ;)
Good Luck mate :thumbsup:
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bigrich » 11 Dec 2018, 7:27 pm

bigpete wrote:Rossi 92 44 mag for the win. Absolutely love mine


was yours blued or stainless BP ?
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bladeracer » 11 Dec 2018, 7:28 pm

bigrich wrote:yeh i wasn't keen on a marlin because the rifling isn't real good for lead apparently. what's case life like on 357 and 44 ?

:thumbsup:


The Marlin CB models are fine, it's the Microgroove that sucks.
No idea, I'll be surprised if I ever wear out the brass :-)
I would certainly consider the brass to be the least expensive part of it. I bought a bunch of new Starline for both of these, and bought a few hundred more various once-fired privately. Even at 50c apiece for new brass, I wouldn't be surprised if I got 25 loads out of them, if not twice that. If you push the loads hard you might see the .357 case life suffer as I think it runs a bit hotter than the .44. A 180gn bullet is probably capable of maybe 1400fps in .357, but over 2100fps in the .44, so you can certainly run a .44 at .357 levels if you want to go easy on the brass and rifle.
.
I have close to 1000rds loaded for each of the .38 and .44. I do shoot a lot of cast in the .44 still as it makes for very cheap trigger time, it just doesn't give the accuracy that plated bullets do. Jacketed bullets work best in the .44 though, with sub-50mm groups at 50m consistently achievable with Williams peep sight.
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bigrich » 11 Dec 2018, 7:29 pm

Wm.Traynor wrote:My Rossi was a piece of junk. So is my Mossberg. May doG have mercy on your eternal soul for thinking about lever guns :crazy: ;)
Good Luck mate :thumbsup:


maybe i should perform a exorcism on a lever before i buy it :lol: what were the faults with your rossi and when was it made :unknown:

:drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bladeracer » 11 Dec 2018, 7:35 pm

bigrich wrote:you fellas are a terrible influence :lol: . i'm starting to get all hot and bothered for a rossi 44. :) i have heard of feed issues with pistol cartridges in some lever guns . mainly due to the wrong shape of projectile. anyone got any experience in this :unknown:

:drinks: :thumbsup:


I have tried a lot of different bullet weights and shapes in the .38 and the .44 with zero feed issues, not full wadcutters though as yet.
The Marlin will occasionally drop a round off the lifter into the action but it clears easily.

The Uberti old-school design requires disassembling the action if it fails to extract a case or round from the chamber, and you don't notice before cycling it. The action requires the bolt to go through the lifter into battery before the lifter can drop. If you cycle a round while there is a case in the chamber you end up with a live round in the lifter so you can't close the bolt. You need to remove the toggles and lifter arm to be able to pull the bolt rearward allowing the lifter to drop out.
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bigpete » 11 Dec 2018, 8:05 pm

bigrich wrote:
bigpete wrote:Rossi 92 44 mag for the win. Absolutely love mine


was yours blued or stainless BP ?


Mine is stainless,which I hate,so I painted it,which I hate more.
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by in2anity » 11 Dec 2018, 8:15 pm

There are 357 1894cs floating around that remlin did a short run of recently - they have ballard (I think). There’s one at Magnum for around $1300 new. Marlins and Winnie’s are really worth the extra dollars if you can scrape it together - id strongly recommend them over the replicas. For plinking the 357 is better (and cheaper obviously).
Last edited by in2anity on 11 Dec 2018, 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bladeracer » 11 Dec 2018, 8:20 pm

in2anity wrote:There are 1894cs floating around that remlin did a short run of recently - they have Ballard (I think). There’s one at Magnum for around $1300 new. Marlins and Winnie’s are really worth the extra dollars if you can scrape it together - id strongly recommend that over the replicas.


$1300 is a great price for a CB model Marlin.
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by in2anity » 11 Dec 2018, 8:22 pm

It’s not a cb - just a c. Round barrel, it has barrel bands, but it’s an 1894
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bladeracer » 11 Dec 2018, 8:27 pm

I don't think it's cut rifling then, mine is a C model I think.
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by in2anity » 11 Dec 2018, 8:30 pm

bladeracer wrote:I don't think it's cut rifling then, mine is a C model I think.


Yes I could be wrong I’m not 100%, but I could also be right. this is the model I’m talking about https://shootersdelight.com.au/product/ ... ion-rifle/ read about the barrel
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bigrich » 11 Dec 2018, 8:33 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bigrich wrote:you fellas are a terrible influence :lol: . i'm starting to get all hot and bothered for a rossi 44. :) i have heard of feed issues with pistol cartridges in some lever guns . mainly due to the wrong shape of projectile. anyone got any experience in this :unknown:

:drinks: :thumbsup:


I have tried a lot of different bullet weights and shapes in the .38 and the .44 with zero feed issues, not full wadcutters though as yet.
The Marlin will occasionally drop a round off the lifter into the action but it clears easily.

The Uberti old-school design requires disassembling the action if it fails to extract a case or round from the chamber, and you don't notice before cycling it. The action requires the bolt to go through the lifter into battery before the lifter can drop. If you cycle a round while there is a case in the chamber you end up with a live round in the lifter so you can't close the bolt. You need to remove the toggles and lifter arm to be able to pull the bolt rearward allowing the lifter to drop out.


doesn't sound like a uberti is for me blade, they sound like a PITA to work on. that's one advantage the marlins have. very easy to work on :thumbsup:
Last edited by bigrich on 11 Dec 2018, 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bigrich » 11 Dec 2018, 8:36 pm

in2anity wrote:There are 357 1894cs floating around that remlin did a short run of recently - they have ballard (I think). There’s one at Magnum for around $1300 new. Marlins and Winnie’s are really worth the extra dollars if you can scrape it together - id strongly recommend them over the replicas. For plinking the 357 is better (and cheaper obviously).


i hear ya, i would really like a miroku, it's , well, the money. descisions :crazy: :thumbsup:
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by in2anity » 11 Dec 2018, 8:42 pm

On the 1894 wiki article it states “In the mid-1990s, Marlin changed the .357 and .44 barrels from 12-groove-or-more "Micro-Groove" rifling to 6-groove "Ballard"-style rifling”” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlin_Model_1894
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bigrich » 11 Dec 2018, 8:50 pm

i've heard the rifling isn't any deeper in the ballard than the micro groove but. any truth in this, or is the ballard cut deeper :unknown: how are these marlins for accuracy ?

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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by Blr243 » 11 Dec 2018, 8:50 pm

I used a 357 Rossi on pigs for a while. No scope. It was so thin and light it was like carrying nothing Never found it lacking close range
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by in2anity » 11 Dec 2018, 8:55 pm

bigrich wrote:i've heard the rifling isn't any deeper in the ballard than the micro groove but. any truth in this, or is the ballard cut deeper :unknown: how are these marlins for accuracy ?

:thumbsup:


Yes the Ballard is deeper - microgroove is shallower (but more of it), helps extend the life of the tooling at the factory. When it comes to stabilizing lead bullets, the Ballards print much cleaner holes on paper and in my experiences (with both styles) my Ballards are easily more accurate than my microgroove (shooting lead that is)
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bigrich » 11 Dec 2018, 8:59 pm

Blr243 wrote:I used a 357 Rossi on pigs for a while. No scope. It was so thin and light it was like carrying nothing Never found it lacking close range


how reliable and accurate was yours ? was it a old one, or a bit newer made :thumbsup:
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by in2anity » 11 Dec 2018, 9:02 pm

Ballard:

DE5EDE15-909F-4451-B795-A4220C99F436.jpeg
Ballard
DE5EDE15-909F-4451-B795-A4220C99F436.jpeg (1.61 MiB) Viewed 5437 times


Microgroove:

B6703B3E-640B-4C18-9B43-BF0FF8EF7944.jpeg
Microgroove
B6703B3E-640B-4C18-9B43-BF0FF8EF7944.jpeg (54.23 KiB) Viewed 5437 times


See how the print is different - and the second one is 30/30 so by definition it should be more accurate
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bladeracer » 11 Dec 2018, 9:09 pm

in2anity wrote:
bladeracer wrote:I don't think it's cut rifling then, mine is a C model I think.


Yes I could be wrong I’m not 100%, but I could also be right. this is the model I’m talking about https://shootersdelight.com.au/product/ ... ion-rifle/ read about the barrel


Well, it does say Ballard, great price if it is.
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bladeracer » 11 Dec 2018, 9:12 pm

bigrich wrote:doesn't sound like a uberti is for me blade, they sound like a PITA to work on. that's one advantage the marlins have. very easy to work on :thumbsup:


Uberti's are replicas of the early designs, I think several early designs have this problem.
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Re: which lever gun and pistol caliber

Post by bigrich » 11 Dec 2018, 9:12 pm

in2anity wrote:Ballard:

DE5EDE15-909F-4451-B795-A4220C99F436.jpeg


Microgroove:

B6703B3E-640B-4C18-9B43-BF0FF8EF7944.jpeg


See how the print is different - and the second one is 30/30 so by definition it should be more accurate


yup, that's pretty good shootin' tex...... :D :thumbsup:
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