Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

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Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by TassieTiger » 19 Dec 2018, 4:06 pm

Heard a theory / urban legend RE cleaning centrefire. A cold barrel can’t be cleaned as efficiently as a hot barrel (metal expansion when hot - traps copper etc), therefore always shoot a couple bullets and start cleaning ASAP afterwards? Metallurgy ppl ? False? True?
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by bladeracer » 19 Dec 2018, 4:37 pm

TassieTiger wrote:Heard a theory / urban legend RE cleaning centrefire. A cold barrel can’t be cleaned as efficiently as a hot barrel (metal expansion when hot - traps copper etc), therefore always shoot a couple bullets and start cleaning ASAP afterwards? Metallurgy ppl ? False? True?


I can't comment on the metallurgy, at least not without Googling it :-)
If you are using a copper/lead solvent I don't think the temperature will matter. The solvent will react with the fouling and break it down so you can patch it out, or scrub it out if it's heavy.
I prefer to let the solvent do the work before I try to remove fouling by scrubbing at it.
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 19 Dec 2018, 4:55 pm

Not that I do it.

But have heard from a few ppl, it's best to clean at the range while the barrel is warm or freshly shot before packing it away.

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Last edited by Sergeant Hartman on 19 Dec 2018, 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by Oldbloke » 19 Dec 2018, 5:29 pm

Mmmm, my experience is it does seem easier if done same day. Never done hot.
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by in2anity » 19 Dec 2018, 8:03 pm

Even if there were truth to it - the performance gain would probably be immeasurable.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by Member-Deleted » 19 Dec 2018, 8:16 pm

I think do it both ways I have and haven't found any difference I suppose it's up to you neither way will hurt
In the cases of cleaning it warm gets it off better well that could be right because the longer you leave the barrel dirty the harder it will become to clean much like everything else
Some people don't clean their rifles until locking them away for the last time that season
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by Stix » 19 Dec 2018, 8:31 pm

An old barrel on a rifle i have...used to foul with copper like the devil...
If i waited the next day to clean it...it would take a few days...
If i cleaned it straight after shooting--ie; have cleaning gear there ready for last group--patch out carbon then scrub the copper a few times eith hot barrel, it would be clean that night... :thumbsup:

My theory is a liquid is easier to remove than a baked on solid...
Copper is closer to liquid immediately after 4 smoking rounds so takes less elbow grease to dislodge & remove....

Maybe it was placebo effect due to feeling so good about no barrel cleaning at home :unknown: , but i doubt it.

Ive heard stories of older blokes that used to plug their copper fouled barrels & fill with boiling water to remove copper easier...dunno how true it is... :unknown:

Certainly makes you feel better coming home with a clean rifle that's for sure... :thumbsup:
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 19 Dec 2018, 10:30 pm

Boiling water is for carbon removal
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by Member-Deleted » 19 Dec 2018, 11:06 pm

Yes Stix it is true for some blokes my old grampa used to take the barrel from the stock and boil from the chamber down in a copper
full of water he said that if he didn't do that once in awhile the cordite used to eat the barrel out if left in the barrel and moisture got in
After boiling and brushing the inside of the barrel while still in the copper the heat left in the barrel used to dry it right out after wiping it down
Since his passing fair few years ago I've looked at it more closer and found many then used hot water and brushes ,boiled them like GD
to get the cordite residue out properly and boiling water was the best way
Apparently cordite and some of the first powders made were pretty corrosive to barrels not like the powders we have today :thumbsup:
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by TassieTiger » 20 Dec 2018, 12:56 am

I’m not a metallurgist but I’ve seen steel grow from heat, I’ve seen molecules open up and lengthen...if you think of some of the tolerances involved in mech, rifling, etc - id not be surprised to learn that there is a much deeper cleansing potential from a hot barrel..
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by straightshooter » 20 Dec 2018, 5:50 am

OMG
This is just (what once was) schoolboy chemistry!
Bore cleaning with the correct solvents is a chemical reaction and just about all chemical reactions are temperature dependant, that is the rate of reaction increases with temperature. Now in a rifle barrel you don't want the barrel too hot as this will drive off the aromatic solvent carriers in the bore cleaner too quickly thus rendering the overall process less reactive and effective.
This does not apply to internet fantasy cleaners like 'Ed's red' and similar which don't contain anything that can react with copper or lead.
This kind of belief in magic and lack of understanding is what happens when schools replace maths, physics and chemistry studies with gender studies and 'cargo cult' like thinking.
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by Strikey » 20 Dec 2018, 6:18 am

straightshooter wrote:OMG
This is just (what once was) schoolboy chemistry!
Bore cleaning with the correct solvents is a chemical reaction and just about all chemical reactions are temperature dependant, that is the rate of reaction increases with temperature. Now in a rifle barrel you don't want the barrel too hot as this will drive off the aromatic solvent carriers in the bore cleaner too quickly thus rendering the overall process less reactive and effective.
This does not apply to internet fantasy cleaners like 'Ed's red' and similar which don't contain anything that can react with copper or lead.
This kind of belief in magic and lack of understanding is what happens when schools replace maths, physics and chemistry studies with gender studies and 'cargo cult' like thinking.


Haha, have to agree with you, a lot of people also tend to overthink what is a fairly basic process :thumbsup:
Also the boiling water down the barrel was used to remove the residue from the mercuric primers that were common in the early days of centrefire cartridges :thumbsup:
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by Stix » 20 Dec 2018, 8:42 am

Thinking about how we do things & sharing those thoughts, whether they be ours or what we have heard, is a good thing... :thumbsup:

I dont believe wanting to better understand a process, or search for a more efficient way of doing it through our peers is overthinking...

If that was the case there would be no need for anyone on this forum. :D

Dont feel like you have asked a stupid question Tassie...because you havnt...!! :thumbsup:
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by Member-Deleted » 20 Dec 2018, 10:18 am

So Strikey does that mean old grampa must have been 1/2 right with washing the inside of the barrel but wrong on what caused it ?
or totally wrong altogether because he was shown whilst serving his country and just overthinking it
I don't think people over think things other wise they'd be poking fun at other peoples ideas on this forum some have no idea and try to
under stand by asking questions and some can only tell of past experiences by passing it on and others just say it and expect people to think that's the only way not all people are blessed with the knowhow of doing things hence a forum
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by bladeracer » 20 Dec 2018, 10:27 am

TassieTiger wrote:I’m not a metallurgist but I’ve seen steel grow from heat, I’ve seen molecules open up and lengthen...if you think of some of the tolerances involved in mech, rifling, etc - id not be surprised to learn that there is a much deeper cleansing potential from a hot barrel..


While this is true, we are talking about very small temperature variations here. The difference between cleaning _immediately_ after firing the last round, and cleaning later at room temperature is only going to be 50-60C at most. If you're getting your barrel much above 100C you're probably doing serious damage to it.
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by bladeracer » 20 Dec 2018, 10:28 am

Strikey wrote:Also the boiling water down the barrel was used to remove the residue from the mercuric primers that were common in the early days of centrefire cartridges :thumbsup:


Boiling water was also used simply because it was cheap and available.
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by Oldbloke » 20 Dec 2018, 11:31 am

bladeracer wrote:
Strikey wrote:Also the boiling water down the barrel was used to remove the residue from the mercuric primers that were common in the early days of centrefire cartridges :thumbsup:


Boiling water was also used simply because it was cheap and available.


Hot soapy water seems to work ok for BP
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by straightshooter » 21 Dec 2018, 7:28 am

Many years ago in the 303 sporter era when corrosive primer ammunition was still commonplace you risked a rusted bore if you left it without any form of cleaning overnight.
The reason was that the corrosive primers contained potassium chlorate. Although it made for excellent priming characteristics it left a corrosive salt lining your barrel.
The water cleaning method at least got rid of the corrosive salt residue even though it did nothing to remove jacket fouling in the bore. A longer term issue with that metallic fouling was that it trapped some of the corrosive elements under the fouling leading to serious pitting in the longer term even if the barrel was well oiled.
An expedient nightly ritual was to have a small tin of boiling water with a drop or two of Young's 303 oil in it placed on your camp fire and have a well fitting patch on your cleaning rod. You would then put the muzzle of your rifle into the boiling water and draw up the water by pulling up the cleaning rod until the patch reached the chamber. At that point the patch would lose it's seal on the bore and the water would run back into the tin to continue boiling. You would continue doing this until the the barrel was quite hot.
Being hot the barrel would dry out very quickly and there would be a light film of oil left on the barrel sufficient to protect it for a few days but not enough to worry about patching out prior to shooting again.
The barrel of course would need proper solvent cleaning prior to oiling for longer term protection during storage.
In latter years this handed down knowledge seemed to get "dumbed down" in it's transmission to simply pouring hot water down the barrel through some kind of funnel.
The boiling water through the barrel achieves very little with modern truly non corrosive ammunition. At best it removes some of the combustion products that would have been better removed with a dry patch but without the mess and bother.
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by trekin » 21 Dec 2018, 7:48 am

straightshooter wrote:Many years ago in the 303 sporter era when corrosive primer ammunition was still commonplace you risked a rusted bore if you left it without any form of cleaning overnight.
The reason was that the corrosive primers contained potassium chlorate. Although it made for excellent priming characteristics it left a corrosive salt lining your barrel.
The water cleaning method at least got rid of the corrosive salt residue even though it did nothing to remove jacket fouling in the bore. A longer term issue with that metallic fouling was that it trapped some of the corrosive elements under the fouling leading to serious pitting in the longer term even if the barrel was well oiled.
An expedient nightly ritual was to have a small tin of boiling water with a drop or two of Young's 303 oil in it placed on your camp fire and have a well fitting patch on your cleaning rod. You would then put the muzzle of your rifle into the boiling water and draw up the water by pulling up the cleaning rod until the patch reached the chamber. At that point the patch would lose it's seal on the bore and the water would run back into the tin to continue boiling. You would continue doing this until the the barrel was quite hot.
Being hot the barrel would dry out very quickly and there would be a light film of oil left on the barrel sufficient to protect it for a few days but not enough to worry about patching out prior to shooting again.
The barrel of course would need proper solvent cleaning prior to oiling for longer term protection during storage.
In latter years this handed down knowledge seemed to get "dumbed down" in it's transmission to simply pouring hot water down the barrel through some kind of funnel.
The boiling water through the barrel achieves very little with modern truly non corrosive ammunition. At best it removes some of the combustion products that would have been better removed with a dry patch but without the mess and bother.

In fact, the boiling water though the funnel predates the 303 sporter era and was used by the miltitary since the MH days. Photo of armouers funnel and cup for cleaning BP and/or primer salt residue. Can be used with either MH or LE.
funnel.JPG
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by TassieTiger » 21 Dec 2018, 7:52 am

Worth asking the question just for info / pics of jugs.
Cheers.
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by trekin » 21 Dec 2018, 7:58 am

TassieTiger wrote:Worth asking the question just for info / pics of jugs.
Cheers.

Gun porn at it's finest, eh. :drinks:
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Re: Cleaning a bore - hot/warm barrel ?

Post by Gamerancher » 21 Dec 2018, 8:48 am

Black-powder residue is water soluble. Martini 450-577's were loaded with black-powder, so were the first .303 military rounds.
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