Help me to choose best rifle in .223

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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Stix » 11 Jan 2019, 5:00 pm

yep...something looks a big miss there Daddybang...can only go by the pics but that rifle/scope combo set-up doesnt look at all comfortable on you mate...

Length of pull looks short, but that could just be the pic.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by SCJ429 » 11 Jan 2019, 5:12 pm

The eye relief is still very long, need to move the scope mounts forward until the cheek is on the cheek rest. The exit pupil gets very small at higher magnification and head position becomes critical.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Flyer » 11 Jan 2019, 5:18 pm

allan wrote:
Islander7 wrote:Thanks Flyer - very much appreciate all your help mate!

I'm a bit lost though, do I also need to buy ring bases separately or the rifle comes with them installed? I'm trying to find various photos of the rifle on the web but get mixed results.


They're ring mounts - you don't need anything else. The Weihrauch has an 11mm dovetail and the base of the ring-mount clamps on to it.


Islander7 - Your new rifle should arrive with a set of Weaver style bases & screws in the carton and should also have 4 tiny "filler" screws installed in the holes on top of the receiver. Both mine arrived that way. Perhaps Flyer will confirm. If you're using mounts that clamp to the dove tail, I would leave the filler screws in the receiver and put the supplied bases & screws away carefully. Mine appear to be a "Weihrauch Special" thread - Certainly not the standard 6/48 threads found on most rifles.

I'll have to check my box again, because I don't remember seeing any Weaver mounts in mine. My Sako A7 came with them, but not my Weihrauch, as far as I know. I do have the mounting holes with tap screws and thought of mentioning this, but I haven't used them so can recommend anything.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Daddybang » 11 Jan 2019, 6:49 pm

Stix wrote:yep...something looks a big miss there Daddybang...can only go by the pics but that rifle/scope combo set-up doesnt look at all comfortable on you mate...

Length of pull looks short, but that could just be the pic.



SCJ429 wrote:The eye relief is still very long, need to move the scope mounts forward until the cheek is on the cheek rest. The exit pupil gets very small at higher magnification and head position becomes critical.


Yep as its not my rifle and I don't tend to shoot it off the shoulder (they're a bloody heavy bit of kit) very often it's not a problem .
We actually had to turn the comb around to get any cheek at all on it. All too bloody complicated for me so as I said I'll stick to my 3-9x.and leave the high.mags for those that want it!! :lol: :lol: :drinks:
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by bladeracer » 11 Jan 2019, 6:59 pm

Daddybang wrote:Yep as its not my rifle and I don't tend to shoot it off the shoulder (they're a bloody heavy bit of kit) very often it's not a problem .
We actually had to turn the comb around to get any cheek at all on it. All too bloody complicated for me so as I said I'll stick to my 3-9x.and leave the high.mags for those that want it!! :lol: :lol: :drinks:


I was figuring it can't possibly be your own rifle set up like that :-)
Last edited by bladeracer on 11 Jan 2019, 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Stix » 11 Jan 2019, 8:24 pm

Daddybang wrote:
Stix wrote:yep...something looks a big miss there Daddybang...can only go by the pics but that rifle/scope combo set-up doesnt look at all comfortable on you mate...

Length of pull looks short, but that could just be the pic.



SCJ429 wrote:The eye relief is still very long, need to move the scope mounts forward until the cheek is on the cheek rest. The exit pupil gets very small at higher magnification and head position becomes critical.


Yep as its not my rifle and I don't tend to shoot it off the shoulder (they're a bloody heavy bit of kit) very often it's not a problem .
We actually had to turn the comb around to get any cheek at all on it. All too bloody complicated for me so as I said I'll stick to my 3-9x.and leave the high.mags for those that want it!! :lol: :lol: :drinks:


Well dont let that put you off high power scopes though DB...if you ever wanted one, setting one up for yourself will be very different. :thumbsup:
As SCJ says, eye position is critical at the high end.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Islander7 » 11 Jan 2019, 9:04 pm

Just did a very non-scientific test/comparison of my new scope in low light situation - Meopta Meostar R1r 3-12X56mm.
Basically I setted up the scope ~60m from a shipping container on my property and tried to read some numbers written on a container (white letters on green background). I also tried to do the same using my old budget ($300 from ebay USA) binoculars Nikon Monarch 8.5x56mm with one eye shut.
In both cases (through Meopta scope that I set to 8.5X and Nikon binoculars 8.5X) I could not read the text any longer at exactly same minute 9:33pm. I moved 20m closer and was able to barely see the text again, after few more minutes the contrast faded away, again, at exactly same time for both.

I then directed both to the bush behind the container - contrast was pretty poor through Meopta, while I still could distinguish different branches via Nikon. Both were about same brightness however.

Slightly dissappointed to be honest, considering that these binoculars are budget model and this scope is often comparable to much more expensive models. There are numerous reports online that this scope is better optically than Z3 and just slightly behind Z5/Z6, S&B, Zeiss Victory etc. I trust those reports, and now glad that I didn't pay twice the price for other brands, because it wouldn't make any difference for my eyes most probably.

P.S. very unscientific I know. Maybe my eyes are poor enough to be able to distinguish the difference in optics and superiority of Meopta, who knows. I'm keeping the scope anyway, as I like it still and it's more than enough for my hunting needs anyway. It's just that I was prepared to be blown away by low llight performance and I wasn't after all :)
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Daddybang » 11 Jan 2019, 9:21 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Daddybang wrote:Yep as its not my rifle and I don't tend to shoot it off the shoulder (they're a bloody heavy bit of kit) very often it's not a problem .
We actually had to turn the comb around to get any cheek at all on it. All too bloody complicated for me so as I said I'll stick to my 3-9x.and leave the high.mags for those that want it!! :lol: :lol: :drinks:


I was figuring it can't possibly be youmr own rife set up like that :-)


Yeah just a mates I get to play with from time to time! :thumbsup: :drinks:

Heya stix it won't cause I want to start shooting at distance over the next year so I guess the lower mags won't be much chop at 500+.!!(hell i might even have to start going to the local range as 300+in safety isn't really doable at home until I clear more scrub and I'm not sure how I'll go with palaschmucks new laws.!! :unknown: :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by bladeracer » 11 Jan 2019, 9:23 pm

Islander7 wrote:Just did a very non-scientific test/comparison of my new scope in low light situation - Meopta Meostar R1r 3-12X56mm.
Basically I setted up the scope ~60m from a shipping container on my property and tried to read some numbers written on a container (white letters on green background). I also tried to do the same using my old budget ($300 from ebay USA) binoculars Nikon Monarch 8.5x56mm with one eye shut.
In both cases (through Meopta scope that I set to 8.5X and Nikon binoculars 8.5X) I could not read the text any longer at exactly same minute 9:33pm. I moved 20m closer and was able to barely see the text again, after few more minutes the contrast faded away, again, at exactly same time for both.

I then directed both to the bush behind the container - contrast was pretty poor through Meopta, while I still could distinguish different branches via Nikon. Both were about same brightness however.

Slightly dissappointed to be honest, considering that these binoculars are budget model and this scope is often comparable to much more expensive models. There are numerous reports online that this scope is better optically than Z3 and just slightly behind Z5/Z6, S&B, Zeiss Victory etc. I trust those reports, and now glad that I didn't pay twice the price for other brands, because I would've been disappointed even more probably

P.S. very unscientific I know. Maybe my eyes are poor enough to be able to distinguish the difference in optics and superiority of Meopta, who knows. I'm keeping the scope anyway, as I like it still and it's more than enough for my hunting needs anyway. It's just that I was prepared to be blown away by low llight performance and I wasn't after all :)


It's a good test technique I think.
My eyesight completely falls over without decent light.
Something else that plays a large role is whether you've just been staring at a computer, phone or TV, or if you've just come outside into sunlight a few minutes before. That's one reason why I go out well before sunup, so my eyes have completely settled by the time the dawn starts.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by grandadbushy » 11 Jan 2019, 10:57 pm

G'day Islander7 mate I have a Z3 and am very happy with it I shoot on moonlit nights quiet easily with heart-lung shots
on scrubbers with no fear of missing out to 200yds it has very good light capabilities in the moonlight and on a dark night I
could shoot till 7.30--8 pm most nights
It picks up stuff in the moonlight that my range finder won't
I've shot bulls from 65yds to 205yds on moonlit nights comfortably all heart/lung shot
When I bought the Z3 I think I paid $1400 or so but well worth it wouldn't part with mine
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Flyer » 12 Jan 2019, 2:31 am

Islander7 wrote:Just did a very non-scientific test/comparison of my new scope in low light situation - Meopta Meostar R1r 3-12X56mm.
Basically I setted up the scope ~60m from a shipping container on my property and tried to read some numbers written on a container (white letters on green background). I also tried to do the same using my old budget ($300 from ebay USA) binoculars Nikon Monarch 8.5x56mm with one eye shut.
In both cases (through Meopta scope that I set to 8.5X and Nikon binoculars 8.5X) I could not read the text any longer at exactly same minute 9:33pm. I moved 20m closer and was able to barely see the text again, after few more minutes the contrast faded away, again, at exactly same time for both.

I then directed both to the bush behind the container - contrast was pretty poor through Meopta, while I still could distinguish different branches via Nikon. Both were about same brightness however.

Slightly dissappointed to be honest, considering that these binoculars are budget model and this scope is often comparable to much more expensive models. There are numerous reports online that this scope is better optically than Z3 and just slightly behind Z5/Z6, S&B, Zeiss Victory etc. I trust those reports, and now glad that I didn't pay twice the price for other brands, because it wouldn't make any difference for my eyes most probably.

P.S. very unscientific I know. Maybe my eyes are poor enough to be able to distinguish the difference in optics and superiority of Meopta, who knows. I'm keeping the scope anyway, as I like it still and it's more than enough for my hunting needs anyway. It's just that I was prepared to be blown away by low llight performance and I wasn't after all :)

That's a bit surprising. It's unfortunate you don't have another scope to compare, because that would tell you if it's the scope or your eyes.

Doesn't that model Meopta have an illuminated reticle? Was it on when you tested?

Also, that one doesn't have any parallax adjustment, so if parallax is set at 100m, and you are trying to look at things at 60m at night, the scope was probably a little out of focus to begin with. Perhaps you should try at 100m or longer. That is the trouble with having no parallax - you can't always get a sharp picture close up unless you zoom right out to get better depth of field.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by bigfellascott » 12 Jan 2019, 5:02 am

Islander7 wrote:Just did a very non-scientific test/comparison of my new scope in low light situation - Meopta Meostar R1r 3-12X56mm.
Basically I setted up the scope ~60m from a shipping container on my property and tried to read some numbers written on a container (white letters on green background). I also tried to do the same using my old budget ($300 from ebay USA) binoculars Nikon Monarch 8.5x56mm with one eye shut.
In both cases (through Meopta scope that I set to 8.5X and Nikon binoculars 8.5X) I could not read the text any longer at exactly same minute 9:33pm. I moved 20m closer and was able to barely see the text again, after few more minutes the contrast faded away, again, at exactly same time for both.

I then directed both to the bush behind the container - contrast was pretty poor through Meopta, while I still could distinguish different branches via Nikon. Both were about same brightness however.

Slightly dissappointed to be honest, considering that these binoculars are budget model and this scope is often comparable to much more expensive models. There are numerous reports online that this scope is better optically than Z3 and just slightly behind Z5/Z6, S&B, Zeiss Victory etc. I trust those reports, and now glad that I didn't pay twice the price for other brands, because it wouldn't make any difference for my eyes most probably.

P.S. very unscientific I know. Maybe my eyes are poor enough to be able to distinguish the difference in optics and superiority of Meopta, who knows. I'm keeping the scope anyway, as I like it still and it's more than enough for my hunting needs anyway. It's just that I was prepared to be blown away by low llight performance and I wasn't after all :)


It doesn't surprise me at all! I've done plenty of testing of euro and cheaper offerings and there really was SFA diff in brightness in between any of them at last light. I was expecting to be able to use the euros without any added light source but it wasn't the case at all. :unknown:
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Islander7 » 12 Jan 2019, 6:00 am

Bladeracer, yes I spent whole night outside yesterday without looking at bright computer/phone screen etc, so my eyes were very well adapted to the natural twilight setting. Astronomy is my another hobby, so I know the importance of eye adaptation to the darkness before looking through scope.

Grandad, I've decided to keep it for now at least. I'll try to get and test better optics (Swarovski etc) in the future. If I get blown away, I'll happily upgrade. My own conclusion now is everyone's eyes are different, and apparantly my eyes aren't that great after all, which is a bit disappointing :) I didn't believe this fact at first, but then I remembered that I've got a $20k hi-fi stereo system and I'm the only one (within my circle of friends and family) who are able to clearly hear difference/advantage in comparison to, say, $3k system.. so yes, we are all different.

Flyer, illuminated reticle was off, simply because it came to me with dead battery (ex-display unit). Yes it's got fixed parallax at 100m, however it has a focus ring, so you can get everything in focus at most distances.

Bigfella, I still will try to do a proper test with more expensive optics in the future, just to see for myself :)
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by bigfellascott » 12 Jan 2019, 6:34 am

Islander7 wrote:Bladeracer, yes I spent whole night outside yesterday without looking at bright computer/phone screen etc, so my eyes were very well adapted to the natural twilight setting. Astronomy is my another hobby, so I know the importance of eye adaptation to the darkness before looking through scope.

Grandad, I've decided to keep it for now at least. I'll try to get and test better optics (Swarovski etc) in the future. If I get blown away, I'll happily upgrade. My own conclusion now is everyone's eyes are different, and apparantly my eyes aren't that great after all, which is a bit disappointing :) I didn't believe this fact at first, but then I remembered that I've got a $20k hi-fi stereo system and I'm the only one (within my circle of friends and family) who are able to clearly hear difference/advantage in comparison to, say, $3k system.. so yes, we are all different.

Flyer, illuminated reticle was off, simply because it came to me with dead battery (ex-display unit). Yes it's got fixed parallax at 100m, however it has a focus ring, so you can get everything in focus at most distances.

Bigfella, I still will try to do a proper test with more expensive optics in the future, just to see for myself :)



My bet is you will still be very disappointed - or at least left wondering what the added $$$$ were really for. :drinks:
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Ziad » 12 Jan 2019, 7:02 am

Why did you get a smoke with no parallax adjustment
Blame it on the phone auto correct
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by bigfellascott » 12 Jan 2019, 7:09 am

Ziad wrote:Why did you get a smoke with no parallax adjustment


It's only a 3-12 so not needed.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Islander7 » 12 Jan 2019, 9:01 am

Ziad wrote:Why did you get a smoke with no parallax adjustment


After all the research I did I realised that I wanted a 'set and forget' scope. Even if it had parallax adjustment, I would have probably set it at 100m and never touch it again anyway.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by allan » 12 Jan 2019, 9:41 am

Flyer wrote:I'll have to check my box again, because I don't remember seeing any Weaver mounts in mine. My Sako A7 came with them, but not my Weihrauch, as far as I know. I do have the mounting holes with tap screws and thought of mentioning this, but I haven't used them so can recommend anything.


If the bases aren't there, you're not missing anything - Mine are rubbish. The HW66JM even came with a Leapers UTG 3-9X40 scope in the box - Have it advertised on a couple of sites - Can't give it away!

I have both my scopes mounted using J&P delrin 11MM adaptors & Burris Signature zees.
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