Help me to choose best rifle in .223

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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Bill » 13 Jan 2019, 6:15 pm

Cmon gaz this country was built upon taking the piss out of mates, no ego involved here mate.

By all means we should be encouraging newbies but putting up a so called non scientific test that makes zero sense needs to be called for what it is ....
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by bigfellascott » 13 Jan 2019, 6:31 pm

Flyer wrote:A number of guys at our club shoot L461 actions in 222 and they are some of the most accurate guns on the line. There are after-market triggers available for them.


Original factory barrels or aftermarket? Yeah I know there are aftermarket triggers for them but not easy to source from my research and expensive if memory serves me correctly, I really liked the action and the stock was beautiful to handle but I just wasn't interested in stuffing around with it in the end as I had a 222 Howa that shot rings around it (not as nice to handle being a varmint barrelled action but rather a shooter than a tomato stake that looks and feels great TBH. :thumbsup:
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by bigfellascott » 13 Jan 2019, 6:37 pm

Here's a pic of it

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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Gaznazdiak » 13 Jan 2019, 6:52 pm

First off Bill, I seroiusly doubt Islander is your "mate" who would see your piss taking as part of an Aussie mateship ritual.

Secondly, perhaps offering a constructive suggestion instead of telling the man you got a belly laugh at his attempts to work things out for himself would be more helpful. Humiliation has never been big on the teaching spectrum.

Someone who asks a group of strangers for technical advice is definitely not going to mistake ridicule for friendship, believe me.

If you have something helpful and constructive to offer a new shooter, by all.means do so.
If you just want a cheap laugh at someone else's expense, try youtube.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Flyer » 13 Jan 2019, 7:05 pm

bigfellascott wrote:
Flyer wrote:A number of guys at our club shoot L461 actions in 222 and they are some of the most accurate guns on the line. There are after-market triggers available for them.


Original factory barrels or aftermarket? Yeah I know there are aftermarket triggers for them but not easy to source from my research and expensive if memory serves me correctly, I really liked the action and the stock was beautiful to handle but I just wasn't interested in stuffing around with it in the end as I had a 222 Howa that shot rings around it (not as nice to handle being a varmint barrelled action but rather a shooter than a tomato stake that looks and feels great TBH. :thumbsup:

Aftermarket barrels. I'd imagine most of the original barrels are long in the tooth by now, but I've got a mate with an original 222 sporter barrel and his shoots as well as any of the factory rifles. The L461 and A1 actions are popular for competition, so Timney, Madco, Canjar and (I think) Barnard all make triggers for them.

There's still a bit to be said for the Howa mini being based on the L461, though from memory it's a little bit heavier and the ones I've tried weren't as smooth as the Sako - though the difference was probably more to do with new action vs well worn-in action.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by bigfellascott » 13 Jan 2019, 7:12 pm

Flyer wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:
Flyer wrote:A number of guys at our club shoot L461 actions in 222 and they are some of the most accurate guns on the line. There are after-market triggers available for them.


Original factory barrels or aftermarket? Yeah I know there are aftermarket triggers for them but not easy to source from my research and expensive if memory serves me correctly, I really liked the action and the stock was beautiful to handle but I just wasn't interested in stuffing around with it in the end as I had a 222 Howa that shot rings around it (not as nice to handle being a varmint barrelled action but rather a shooter than a tomato stake that looks and feels great TBH. :thumbsup:

Aftermarket barrels. I'd imagine most of the original barrels are long in the tooth by now, but I've got a mate with an original 222 sporter barrel and his shoots as well as any of the factory rifles. The L461 and A1 actions are popular for competition, so Timney, Madco, Canjar and (I think) Barnard all make triggers for them.

There's still a bit to be said for the Howa mini being based on the L461, though from memory it's a little bit heavier and the ones I've tried weren't as smooth as the Sako - though the difference was probably more to do with new action vs well worn-in action.


I figured that would be the case mate, I think half the prob with this particular rifle was the fact it was what was known as a Strawter barrel, really thin and light and known to be crap, sadly I didn't know about them at the time until I started doing some research after I had trouble getting it to shoot. :unknown:

As for smooth actions, that 222 CMC Mountaineer is butter smooth, every bit as good as the Sako :thumbsup:
Last edited by bigfellascott on 13 Jan 2019, 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Bill » 13 Jan 2019, 7:12 pm

seriously Gaz save ya breathe and lecture someone else. Humiliation ?? wtf its the internet, nobodies been humiliated.

Anyway I get the feeling you love a rant so carry on.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Bill » 13 Jan 2019, 7:16 pm

Flyer wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:
Flyer wrote:A number of guys at our club shoot L461 actions in 222 and they are some of the most accurate guns on the line. There are after-market triggers available for them.


Original factory barrels or aftermarket? Yeah I know there are aftermarket triggers for them but not easy to source from my research and expensive if memory serves me correctly, I really liked the action and the stock was beautiful to handle but I just wasn't interested in stuffing around with it in the end as I had a 222 Howa that shot rings around it (not as nice to handle being a varmint barrelled action but rather a shooter than a tomato stake that looks and feels great TBH. :thumbsup:

Aftermarket barrels. I'd imagine most of the original barrels are long in the tooth by now, but I've got a mate with an original 222 sporter barrel and his shoots as well as any of the factory rifles. The L461 and A1 actions are popular for competition, so Timney, Madco, Canjar and (I think) Barnard all make triggers for them.

There's still a bit to be said for the Howa mini being based on the L461, though from memory it's a little bit heavier and the ones I've tried weren't as smooth as the Sako - though the difference was probably more to do with new action vs well worn-in action.


Dimensions between the L461 and Howa mini are very close, as to the weight I think the mini may be a smidge lighter due to the plastic mag and bottom metal. And yes the Howa needs a few hundred rounds thru it before smoothing up very nicely. Id rate the trigger superior to the Sako after you lighten it with a 2lb spring from the trigger guy on ebay ($22).
When a guy is digging his own grave, you don’t fight him for the shovel.

Success leaves clues, Fools follow failure !

20 Hornet, 218 Bee, 222 Rem, 256 WM, 6mm ARC, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5x55 Scan, 270 Win, 357 Mag, 358 Win, 9.3x62, 500 A Square
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by bigfellascott » 13 Jan 2019, 7:45 pm

Bill wrote:
Flyer wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:
Flyer wrote:A number of guys at our club shoot L461 actions in 222 and they are some of the most accurate guns on the line. There are after-market triggers available for them.


Original factory barrels or aftermarket? Yeah I know there are aftermarket triggers for them but not easy to source from my research and expensive if memory serves me correctly, I really liked the action and the stock was beautiful to handle but I just wasn't interested in stuffing around with it in the end as I had a 222 Howa that shot rings around it (not as nice to handle being a varmint barrelled action but rather a shooter than a tomato stake that looks and feels great TBH. :thumbsup:

Aftermarket barrels. I'd imagine most of the original barrels are long in the tooth by now, but I've got a mate with an original 222 sporter barrel and his shoots as well as any of the factory rifles. The L461 and A1 actions are popular for competition, so Timney, Madco, Canjar and (I think) Barnard all make triggers for them.

There's still a bit to be said for the Howa mini being based on the L461, though from memory it's a little bit heavier and the ones I've tried weren't as smooth as the Sako - though the difference was probably more to do with new action vs well worn-in action.


Dimensions between the L461 and Howa mini are very close, as to the weight I think the mini may be a smidge lighter due to the plastic mag and bottom metal. And yes the Howa needs a few hundred rounds thru it before smoothing up very nicely. Id rate the trigger superior to the Sako after you lighten it with a 2lb spring from the trigger guy on ebay ($22).


Couldn't agree more :drinks: That Sako Trigger was way over the top to try and get working right - right PITA to be honest. :unknown:
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Gaznazdiak » 13 Jan 2019, 8:09 pm

Good of you to decide for Islander that your making fun of him doesn't matter because "it's the internet" and that your ridicule doesn't have effect because of the forum. After all, no one has ever been harmed by trolls making fun of them online, have they?

I'm not trying to lecture you Bill, arrogant people who get a jolly from humiliating others from behind a keyboard are not intellectually equipped to accept advice, so it would serve no purpose.

If you can offer some worthwile advice, by all means please do.

If you have nothing constructive to offer, perhaps keep your peurile attempts at jocularity at a stranger's expense to yourself.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Bill » 13 Jan 2019, 8:30 pm

the conversation would go the same way if it was pub, camp fire or rifle range, we've all got to learn to walk before we run, sometime we trip and graze a knee.

Thanks Gaz but I'm sure the Islander picked up something from my reference to the number of lenses. After all he seems like a keen and resourceful type so he might go away and learn something about lens counts and light transmission or he might just scratch his head at this light verbal transaction and have a laugh at the attention.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by SCJ429 » 13 Jan 2019, 8:38 pm

I had to look up "Puerile".....childish or silly.

At least I learned something today. Mission is to use it in a sentence tomorrow.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by TassieTiger » 13 Jan 2019, 9:06 pm

It appears to be PUERILE that this thread has gone past 22 pages lol
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Bill » 13 Jan 2019, 9:09 pm

I feel quite Puerile responding to Gaz but when the berries are ripe a Bears gotta feed !
When a guy is digging his own grave, you don’t fight him for the shovel.

Success leaves clues, Fools follow failure !

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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Islander7 » 13 Jan 2019, 10:09 pm

Hi Bill, I'm glad you had a good laugh. it is believed that laugter prolongs life, so I'm truly glad that there was at least some useful outcome for you from my post :) Seriously though, I just shared my first impressions after getting my first scope, even if they don't make any sense to you, that's fine, it's the internet, I'm entitled to my impressions and you are entitled to your reaction to it :)

I disagree however about your comment regarding comparison of fixed-zoom binoculars and variable zoom scope. Both are optics that's made out of glass for very similar purpose. I used to live in a professional photography world for some time and have seen plenty of cases when premium quality zoom lense outperformed optically a budget fixed lense (even good quality one). But I'm not here to argue :)

By the way, Gaz, no offence taken, it's literally impossible to offend me, be it with the stranger on the internet, or with a mate at the camp fire. I recognise that all people are different and I have zero expectations of others, especially so on the internet. From every conversations in my life I'm absorbing what I find useful to myself and ignoring the rest. :)
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by SCJ429 » 13 Jan 2019, 10:18 pm

Great attitude there, everyone has their own journey. You asked questions and got a range of opinions. You made the decisions that worked for you. I have enjoyed your thread. Cheers.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by marksman » 13 Jan 2019, 10:19 pm

TassieTiger wrote:It appears to be PUERILE that this thread has gone past 22 pages lol


:thumbsup: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :drinks:
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by JimTom » 13 Jan 2019, 10:41 pm

One day this thread is going to end................


Those who have watches Apocolypse Now will understand the reference.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by bigfellascott » 14 Jan 2019, 5:11 am

Islander7 wrote:Hi Bill, I'm glad you had a good laugh. it is believed that laugter prolongs life, so I'm truly glad that there was at least some useful outcome for you from my post :) Seriously though, I just shared my first impressions after getting my first scope, even if they don't make any sense to you, that's fine, it's the internet, I'm entitled to my impressions and you are entitled to your reaction to it :)

I disagree however about your comment regarding comparison of fixed-zoom binoculars and variable zoom scope. Both are optics that's made out of glass for very similar purpose. I used to live in a professional photography world for some time and have seen plenty of cases when premium quality zoom lense outperformed optically a budget fixed lense (even good quality one). But I'm not here to argue :)

By the way, Gaz, no offence taken, it's literally impossible to offend me, be it with the stranger on the internet, or with a mate at the camp fire. I recognise that all people are different and I have zero expectations of others, especially so on the internet. From every conversations in my life I'm absorbing what I find useful to myself and ignoring the rest. :)


I totally agree and am getting the same way with age! :drinks:

Re the glass and lack of any real advantage from the more expensive versus the cheaper offerings, it really is puzzling alright when you start comparing both side by side and don't really see any decent difference (there might be slight differences) but just not that big difference one would expect to go with the big difference in price tag. :unknown:

Maybe out expectations need to be tempered a bit? :unknown: I will say that some are more pleasing to the eye to look through for longer periods though but being a rifle scope I don't really sit there for hours on end looking through it, it's more a matter of spotting something checking it through the scope and taking the shot soon after if it's warranted. :drinks:
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 14 Jan 2019, 6:10 am

A thread about a 223 has reached 23 pages..... hahaha
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Gaznazdiak » 14 Jan 2019, 8:24 am

I know it's not really my place to jump in as your defender Islander, and that you are no doubt more than capable of defending yourself, but I just don't like bullies and I really dislike cowards.

When someone with whom you have a relationship makes fun of you, it can be a joke.

But when some random nobody on the internet ridicules someone from the safe anonymity of the web for asking a legitimate question or expressing their opinion, that is cowardly, and needs to be called out for what it is.

His throw away assertion that it doesn't matter because "it's only the internet" shows the same callous disregard for others that has caused people to take their own life because of being bullied or ridiculed online.

The thing with the anonymity of the net is, you don't know if the person you're talking to is strong as a bull or hovering on the edge and just putting on an impression of normalcy. Words can and have killed people that are in a bad place psychologically.

Anyway mate, apologies if I overstepped.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Gaznazdiak » 14 Jan 2019, 8:30 am

Islander7 wrote:
By the way, Gaz, no offence taken, it's literally impossible to offend me, be it with the stranger on the internet, or with a mate at the camp fire. I recognise that all people are different and I have zero expectations of others, especially so on the internet. From every conversations in my life I'm absorbing what I find useful to myself and ignoring the rest. :)


I know it's not really my place to jump in as your defender Islander, and that you are no doubt more than capable of defending yourself, but I just don't like bullies and I really dislike cowards.

When someone with whom you have a relationship makes fun of you, it can be a joke.

But when some random nobody on the internet ridicules someone from the safe anonymity of the web for asking a legitimate question or expressing their opinion, that is cowardly, and needs to be called out for what it is.

His throw away assertion that it doesn't matter because "it's only the internet" shows the same callous disregard for others that has caused people to take their own life because of being bullied or ridiculed online.

The thing with the anonymity of the net is, you don't know if the person you're talking to is strong as a bull or hovering on the edge and just putting on an impression of normalcy. Words can and have killed people that are in a bad place psychologically. I lost a great mate to suicide, he was hiding life threatening depression under a happy, joking exterior, then seemingly out of the blue, he was gone. We have never found out what the catalyst was for his decision, but it was enough.

Anyway mate, apologies if I overstepped.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Member-Deleted » 14 Jan 2019, 12:03 pm

G'day Islander7 mate after 23 pages have you and if so what have you settled on and what caliber ?
As your post initially was for a 223 in my opinion that is quiet a capable caliber for what you want it for and a good all round caliber period :thumbsup:
Sorry if I have asked a question that has been answered but I switched off some time back so hope all goes well with your final decision :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by bigfellascott » 14 Jan 2019, 12:17 pm

G'day Islander7 mate after 23 pages have you and if so what have you settled on and what caliber ?
As your post initially was for a 223 in my opinion that is quiet a capable caliber for what you want it for and a good all round caliber period :thumbsup:
Sorry if I have asked a question that has been answered but I switched off some time back so hope all goes well with your final decision :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :drinks:


He ended up deciding on the 22 Hornet in the Weihrauch brand. :thumbsup:
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Member-Deleted » 14 Jan 2019, 12:52 pm

Thanks Bigfellascott 22 Hornet hey , had one myself once sorry I sold it had it for many years I actually bough it with a Martini action fitted
to med/heavy barrel , single shot and every bit as accurate as my 22-250 of today even shot the odd bull with it mind you it was only 25yds away
and head shot ;)
It was my saddle rifle and saved my hide a few times :thumbsup:
I think Islander7 will be quiet happy with his decision of the 22 hornet as for the brand I know absolutely nothing about it :thumbsup:
Thanks mate cheers :drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by allan » 15 Jan 2019, 1:52 pm

I think Islander7 will be quiet happy with his decision of the 22 hornet as for the brand I know absolutely nothing about it


Bit of a review here:
http://www.sporting-rifle.com/reviews/hornets-test/
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Member-Deleted » 15 Jan 2019, 11:00 pm

Thanks for that Allan they look quiet the part and a good little write up as well
Thanks again
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Peter988 » 16 Jan 2019, 8:11 am

I would prefer the 222 for that bit extra punch.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Bruiser64 » 16 Jan 2019, 8:51 am

bigfellascott wrote:He ended up deciding on the 22 Hornet in the Weihrauch brand. :thumbsup:


An excellent choice. I owned a 22 hornet years ago and it was a really nice calibre. Cheap to reload, accurate, mild to shoot and very effective on bunnies. I never shot a fox with mine, but I would be surprised if it was anything other than good for them.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Gwion » 17 Jan 2019, 8:46 am

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