Help me to choose best rifle in .223

[bladeracer]

can you post a link to show culling deer legally in the UK with a 17HMR
here is what I have been able to find about UK deer hunting law https://basc.org.uk/cop/deer-stalking/

I've seen video is all, but as I said, it was of culling deer, not hunting them.
Did the pre-'16 version of this CoP have the same cartridge restrictions?
Deer culling would not necessarily have the same restrictions as hunting.

[Gun nut.]

CZ527 .223 varmint. End of story!!

[bigfellascott]

Obviously just my op.
If your starting out - you don’t know what scope will best suit you, because you don’t necessarily know (understand) what your hunting situation will be...
I have a fixed leopold hunting scope that is 6 x and it’s great for what it is - but it’s definitive capabilities are very much locked in and I wouldn’t take a headshot much beyond 120m with it and it’s useless inside 50m That gives me a 70m range for a dedicated hunting scope (fixed power). Again - perfect, if I know exactly what I’m going to be encountering day in / day out.
A variable scope is more than likely to sit on the one magnification 90% of the time - but it’s bloody great to have the flexibility when you need it and if your getting a bit older, eyes aren’t what they used to be, a 18 x or thereabouts at 250m = perfect for bunny headshots, which sounds similar to what ops situation might be. It’s the Flexibility that I enjoy from a variable - the few days a year that I do enjoy target shooting for fun - i can wind up the power and still do that to a degree as well. I do agree with reticle being kept simple - busy reticle can be confusing and obscure vision - I like a simple and thin cross hair, I’ll work out my own drop compensation or not take the shot thsnks.
I’ve seen a few (amazing) rabbit shooters on here, range a Warren at say 200- 300m and then dial in and plink away. They have bulk time because of the distance involved - often the fellow bunnies don’t even move when their brother decides to lie down. Others are getting one shot off at rabbits at 60-100m before the rest scatter...if you know what x power on your scope works at what range - it takes less than a second to adjust it and enjoy best of both worlds...and with that in mind - (for sale - an exc condition Leupold M8 6 x, orig box, user manual, etc..pm if interested).

Choosing a scope is a nightmare imho. I have just bought a varmint Howa 223(first and only rifle)… no scope on it yet coz I can't decide. People I know rave about the 6-18x50 meopta, and I'm actually considering that particular optic. The larger mag will be good for the range which in reality is where I will begin spending most of my time with the rifle. But the minimum magnification if 6x makes me nervous about slightly closer range hunting work. There are too many choices out there I think. I have no issue spending some coin, just want something I'll enjoy and cover some hunting and some range mucking around.

Why would the 6x mag make you nervous at close ranges? and what do you consider close range?

I think of closer range being around the 50m or so mark. And by nervous I guess I meant if something popped out of nowhere in that closer range, I am not sure if the 6x power would be too much to quickly sight the rabbit/fox or what have ya, and get a shot off. I don't have anything to compare to etc as what ever I buy, will literally be the first one I've bought. I guess you could say I want the cake and also want to eat it.

It will be fine mate.

[bladeracer]

Thanks, you are not the first one here who recommends this route, and I'm seriously considering taking it, however got just one question, is there any reason why I should buy .22lr and not .22 magnum (not considering ammo cost difference)??

In my experience, the .22WMR tends to lack precision. It is possible to buy modern rifles that shoot modern ammunition very well indeed, but unless you can try it first it might be a lottery. I tend to think of WMR as a .22LR with a bit more punch, in which case why not just use a .22LR. The .17HMR though is the reverse, they all seem to shoot very well. The WMR would be fine for a fox rifle, but unless its 1MoA or better I wouldn't be shooting rabbits much further than I would with .22LR. WMR and HMR are both a bit limited in ammunition choices as well. Reloading isn't a real option for them so you can only try all the ammo types you can find until you find the most accurate in that rifle. .22LR offers more than 200 different types of ammunition, although many are not available in Australia.

[Islander7]

Islander, I was hoping your latest post was going to say that you had made up your mind and you were buying your Sako tomorrow. I have fired 400 rounds since you started this tread. You just need a rifle, any rifle.

Can't order anything just yet anyway - did my firearm course with test few weeks ago and still awaiting approval letter from police, should be in the mail any day now

[TassieTiger]

You said you needed to spend some coin - if you buy decent second hand (or even new in this day and age) - you won’t lose bugger all money if you find you’ve made a wrong call.
I picked up a sh .22 with a decent scope for $550 and that’s probably what I’d get if I advertised it again.

Houston - we are heading to ten pages lol...

[SCJ429]

Can't order anything just yet anyway - did my firearm course with test few weeks ago and still awaiting approval letter from police, should be in the mail any day now

No stress, you are well on your way then. Hopefully next week you will be posting that you have put a deposit down on your 223 Sako.

[Sawyers]

Geez...can this reach 10 pages lol.
I’ll add my agreement to the bulk.
Buy a varmint barrel 223 with a really good quality scope 4-18 or 6-20 and buy a known .22 with a 3-9 or 4-12 scope.
I have a .22 in Bruno cz452 or cz455 (can’t recsll now but it’s small and light) and I’ve an old norinco .22 - they both shoot great / similar.
You will learn more than you can possibly ask by getting out there with a heap of ammo and just shooting 2 x firearms.

Only prob with high mag optics is they show ya breathing/heartbeat, it can be a PITA - way better to keep it simple IMO - people always seem to want to put hubbles on hunting outfits, much better to keep the mag down and be able to use the scope a lot more efficiently ie no having to search around in the scope trying to find the target cos ya got it wound up and fiddling with parralax etc, just keep it simple, no over complicated Xhairs with all manner of crap going on, you just want a simple X-hair that you can place on the spot and send one on it's way.

I personally think people get half this crap from target shooters who have all day to line up and take a shot, all that sort of shooting is irrelevant in real world hunting situations where it's usually a matter of a few seconds between spotting a target and getting a shot off and if you are busy farting around with magnificaton and parralax, and trying to find the target cos ya got the thing wound right up you are going to miss the opportunity as a rule, KISS!

This is maybe some of the best info given in this entire thread, I made the mistake of putting high magnification scopes with parplax adjustments on my hunting riffle and qukly realised it was a mistake, now they they have ether 3-9, 4-12 or fixed 4 power scopes and its made life a whole lot easier, simply aim an pull the trigger

[pomemax]

I also have 3 223 rifles 1 is a Tikka Hunter , 2 Is a Rugger M77 mark II, 3 is a Omark 44.( I built that One still in progress)
I also have .22 Hornet .22wm 17wsm and quite a few others I do shoot a bit .

How would you rate the noise of .223 vs 22Hornet vs 22wm vs 17wsm on a scale 1 to 10 for example?

Personally if I were in your shoes I would think about getting a good quality .22 you can shoot rabbits all day long dispatch a sheep when needed and learn to shoot see if you like to shoot

Thanks, you are not the first one here who recommends this route, and I'm seriously considering taking it, however got just one question, is there any reason why I should buy .22lr and not .22 magnum (not considering ammo cost difference)??

yes they all make a noise its a perception of noise depends where you are if you in open country not much city street bet there is a big difference.
.22lr is better to learn on 22 wm have more of a kick and cost slightly more some will tell you they are not as accurate some will argue that personaly i have 2 22wm a Marlin and a Norinco the marlin i would say is reasonably accurate the Norinco is a tomato stake some blokes like the Norinco I only bought it cause it was cheap and had a Sightron scope on it cost more then the rifle .
with the 22lr you can shoot all day at a range 70$ will get you a brick (500)been that long since i bought a brick of 22wm not sure of cost

[Islander7]

You said you needed to spend some coin - if you buy decent second hand (or even new in this day and age) - you won’t lose bugger all money if you find you’ve made a wrong call.
I picked up a sh .22 with a decent scope for $550 and that’s probably what I’d get if I advertised it again.

Houston - we are heading to ten pages lol...

Thanks Tassie, just for the future - what's the easiest way to get rid of a gun in Tasmania? Do gunshops take trade-ins, like with cars? Or I'll have to advertise it online and then do re-rego/paperwork etc? I guess my question is how much pain is it to get rid of a gun if I don't like it?

I think I made a decision for now: 17 hornet or 22 hornet (looking at CZ527). 223 is still on the list (noise is my only concern to be honest, remind me why again did they prohibit supressors?)

I hear what you guys are saying, but I simply don't see a need for 2 guns for myself, at least at this stage. If I get 17/22 Hornet or .223, I don't see why would I need .22lr.

[TassieTiger]

Go to your local gun shop and introduce yourself.
All firearms have to be signed over by a gun shop and/or posted by a gun shop. My local charges $25 to sign over and $65 to post interstate plus any extra charges.

Say youve bought a 223 and think nope, don’t like it - you have 3 options:
1.take it to a shop and take their offering (50-70%) of retail.
2. Ask the shop to sell on consignment and they’ll take 5-10% of sale price.
3. Advertise privately and nominate a gun shop to act as dealer for you (as above, will cost about $25 paperwork plus postage).

The local gun shop will sort your paperwork out - you sign they finish. You WILL need to put in a PTA every time you want to purchase, but need nothing to sell...

[Bruiser64]

You said you needed to spend some coin - if you buy decent second hand (or even new in this day and age) - you won’t lose bugger all money if you find you’ve made a wrong call.
I picked up a sh .22 with a decent scope for $550 and that’s probably what I’d get if I advertised it again.

Houston - we are heading to ten pages lol...

Thanks Tassie, just for the future - what's the easiest way to get rid of a gun in Tasmania? Do gunshops take trade-ins, like with cars? Or I'll have to advertise it online and then do re-rego/paperwork etc? I guess my question is how much pain is it to get rid of a gun if I don't like it?

I think I made a decision for now: 17 hornet or 22 hornet (looking at CZ527). 223 is still on the list (noise is my only concern to be honest, remind me why again did they prohibit supressors?)

I hear what you guys are saying, but I simply don't see a need for 2 guns for myself, at least at this stage. If I get 17/22 Hornet or .223, I don't see why would I need .22lr.

Why you need a 22 is because they are an excellent rifle to learn shooting with. Plus, a 22 is very good for rabbit shooting and can be used to destroy farm animals when required. Shooting a centrefire will be a very expensive way to learn shooting. What most of us have learned is rifles are tools and each does a different job. I have a .22 long rifle, a 22 magnum, a 17 hmr, a 204 Ruger, a 243 and a 12 gauge shottie. I use all of them at different times depending upon what I am doing. In fact each was purchased because I had a shooting need l realised Needed filling through the process of going shooting. One rifle or calibre really can’t do it all.

[Sawyers]

You said you needed to spend some coin - if you buy decent second hand (or even new in this day and age) - you won’t lose bugger all money if you find you’ve made a wrong call.
I picked up a sh .22 with a decent scope for $550 and that’s probably what I’d get if I advertised it again.

Houston - we are heading to ten pages lol...

Thanks Tassie, just for the future - what's the easiest way to get rid of a gun in Tasmania? Do gunshops take trade-ins, like with cars? Or I'll have to advertise it online and then do re-rego/paperwork etc? I guess my question is how much pain is it to get rid of a gun if I don't like it?

I think I made a decision for now: 17 hornet or 22 hornet (looking at CZ527). 223 is still on the list (noise is my only concern to be honest, remind me why again did they prohibit supressors?)

I hear what you guys are saying, but I simply don't see a need for 2 guns for myself, at least at this stage. If I get 17/22 Hornet or .223, I don't see why would I need .22lr.

You need a 22lr, you live on small property with nieghbours, who have lived there in relative peace and quit they don't want to hear you fire of 100 rnds on saturday for abit of fun. Ask me how I know this

[bladeracer]

I hear what you guys are saying, but I simply don't see a need for 2 guns for myself, at least at this stage. If I get 17/22 Hornet or .223, I don't see why would I need .22lr.

You can lay in a paddock and shoot 500rds of .22LR for about $50 to $100, with very little noise and no recoil. If you haven't done much shooting before, you will need trigger time to learn to shoot well. To put 500rds through a WMR, Hornet or .223 you're probably looking at $500 to $1000, plus an awful lot of noise. Even if you can already shoot really well, it's also just damned good fun to spend an afternoon plinking .22LR

[bladeracer]

You need a 22lr, you live on small property with nieghbours, who have lived there in relative peace and quit they don't want to hear you fire of 100 rnds on saturday for abit of fun. Ask me how I know this

Most of the farms around me are people that work in town and spend their weekends here, so I shoot my centrefires during the week, and try to stick to .22LR and Trailboss loads on weekends.

[bigrich]

223 s/s laminate tikka , CZ 452 2E american 22lr . spend the rest of your budget on descent scopes ( not going to open that can of worms ) 3-9x40 for the 22lr , 4-12x40 for the 223 . flexable , usable, reliable combo that will do everything you want and cheap to run on factory ammo job done end of this topic , shoot and enjoy, islander

[bigfellascott]

You said you needed to spend some coin - if you buy decent second hand (or even new in this day and age) - you won’t lose bugger all money if you find you’ve made a wrong call.
I picked up a sh .22 with a decent scope for $550 and that’s probably what I’d get if I advertised it again.

Houston - we are heading to ten pages lol...

Not if you sell it to a gun shop ya won't cos that's the sort of $$$ they will more than likely sell it for. What you should do is take it in and see what they will offer you for it, I think you will be very much disappointed and shocked.

Gunshops are like used car dealerships, ya always going to get nailed one way or another. I took all mine in a while back to see what they would offer and it was SFA, he was salivating at getting them for nothing and he was never going to get them at that pathetic offer, FMD the shotgun I bought off him only a couple of years ago for $2300 was now worth SFA according to him as he offered less than that for all my rifles (10 or 11) plus the bloody shotgun FFS, I laughed and walked out, not happening champion not on my watch!!

They always have an excuse as to why they are worth so little no matter what brand it is, just like used car salesman so be warned.

[Bill]

If you want the possibility of shooting heavier projectiles, like around the 70 grain mark, you need to pay attention to the twist rate.
Tikka rifles come in a 1:8 or 1:12 for lighter stuff.

I hear nothing but good things about tikka rifles from friends and on the internet. Gonna keep figures rounded up for simplicity. You're looking at about $1100 for the rifle, then another $200 for decent rings and bases. How much you spend on the optic is up to you, let's say you spend $1000 there (do your research on a varminting scope). Then your cleaning apparatus, rods, bore guide, solvent, copper solvent etc another $200, ammo testing say $100 to start off with will buy you 3-4 boxes of different ammo. There's $2600, do you have a safe ready? It adds up fairly quickly.

be careful about going too fast a twist if your intention is only to shoot the regular 55gr ammo. A mate recently rebarreled to a fast twist and performance on game is eratic. Rifle also appears to foul alot quicker over a long evening, just something to keep in mind.

[TassieTiger]

You said you needed to spend some coin - if you buy decent second hand (or even new in this day and age) - you won’t lose bugger all money if you find you’ve made a wrong call.
I picked up a sh .22 with a decent scope for $550 and that’s probably what I’d get if I advertised it again.

Houston - we are heading to ten pages lol...

Not if you sell it to a gun shop ya won't cos that's the sort of $$$ they will more than likely sell it for. What you should do is take it in and see what they will offer you for it, I think you will be very much disappointed and shocked.

Gunshops are like used car dealerships, ya always going to get nailed one way or another. I took all mine in a while back to see what they would offer and it was SFA, he was salivating at getting them for nothing and he was never going to get them at that pathetic offer, FMD the shotgun I bought off him only a couple of years ago for $2300 was now worth SFA according to him as he offered less than that for all my rifles (10 or 11) plus the bloody shotgun FFS, I laughed and walked out, not happening champion not on my watch!!

They always have an excuse as to why they are worth so little no matter what brand it is, just like used car salesman so be warned.

If I advertised it - it wouldn’t be at a gun shop.
I know lgs have to make $$$ and 50% of “retail” is usually somewhere in the park. But with a bit of common sense and not rushing in - if you buy second hand smart, you can certainly minimise losses...but yeah - not if using gun shops...as per car dealers...as per bike shops...

[bigfellascott]

You said you needed to spend some coin - if you buy decent second hand (or even new in this day and age) - you won’t lose bugger all money if you find you’ve made a wrong call.
I picked up a sh .22 with a decent scope for $550 and that’s probably what I’d get if I advertised it again.

Houston - we are heading to ten pages lol...

Not if you sell it to a gun shop ya won't cos that's the sort of $$$ they will more than likely sell it for. What you should do is take it in and see what they will offer you for it, I think you will be very much disappointed and shocked.

Gunshops are like used car dealerships, ya always going to get nailed one way or another. I took all mine in a while back to see what they would offer and it was SFA, he was salivating at getting them for nothing and he was never going to get them at that pathetic offer, FMD the shotgun I bought off him only a couple of years ago for $2300 was now worth SFA according to him as he offered less than that for all my rifles (10 or 11) plus the bloody shotgun FFS, I laughed and walked out, not happening champion not on my watch!!

They always have an excuse as to why they are worth so little no matter what brand it is, just like used car salesman so be warned.

If I advertised it - it wouldn’t be at a gun shop.
I know lgs have to make $$$ and 50% of “retail” is usually somewhere in the park. But with a bit of common sense and not rushing in - if you buy second hand smart, you can certainly minimise losses...but yeah - not if using gun shops...as per car dealers...as per bike shops...

Yeah they sure know how to get the better part of the deal alright.

[eddahenry]

I hear what you guys are saying, but I simply don't see a need for 2 guns for myself, at least at this stage. If I get 17/22 Hornet or .223, I don't see why would I need .22lr.

You can lay in a paddock and shoot 500rds of .22LR for about $50 to $100, with very little noise and no recoil. If you haven't done much shooting before, you will need trigger time to learn to shoot well. To put 500rds through a WMR, Hornet or .223 you're probably looking at $500 to $1000, plus an awful lot of noise. Even if you can already shoot really well, it's also just damned good fun to spend an afternoon plinking .22LR

Unless you reload ,, the 17hornet is stupid cheap to reload using 20gr Zmax and 2207 powder

[bladeracer]

Unless you reload ,, the 17hornet is stupid cheap to reload using 20gr Zmax and 2207 powder

If you reload you can shoot just about anything for similar cost as .22LR

[SCJ429]

Unless you reload ,, the 17hornet is stupid cheap to reload using 20gr Zmax and 2207 powder

If you reload you can shoot just about anything for similar cost as .22LR

Well for close to it, the 22lr costs me 9 cents every time I pull the trigger. The cheapest projectiles I can get are 12 cents, then I need a primer and some powder.

The thing a 223 has over the Hornet is free brass. You just need to pick up 223 brass off the ground at the range. The Hornet brass must be bought, usually new.

[bigfellascott]

Cooper rifles are very nice

http://cooperfirearms.com/our-rifles

[deanp100]

Just buy any one of the calibres mentioned and give it a try. You may or may not get it right or circumstances may change. Just sell and try something else.

[PaddyT]

Still reckon get a 22lr and the 223, my 223 is a Tikka lite leftie in 1 in 8 twist, it shoots 55gr OSA , 60 gr Hornady TAP and Federal 64 grain Powershock into tiny little holes at 100, the 1 in 8 twist gives you a bit of extra versatility. If you want a timber stock go with the "Hunter" model. The 22lr as the guys have mentioned is the cheapest, quietest and best way to hone your shooting skills.

[knowsnothin]

Fellas will you please stop recommending a tikka or a bruno mod 2. Old mate wants a high end classy rifle so he doesn't have to buy ever again.

Islander you don't know it yet but you REALLY want to buy this package. It is everything you want for your small farm/hunting needs

https://www.buyusedguns.com.au/sauer-20 ... 11937.html

[JimTom]

Fellas will you please stop recommending a tikka or a bruno mod 2. Old mate wants a high end classy rifle so he doesn't have to buy ever again.

Islander you don't know it yet but you REALLY want to buy this package. It is everything you want for your small farm/hunting needs

https://www.buyusedguns.com.au/sauer-20 ... 11937.html

Doesn’t happen to be yours that you’re trying to sell?

[bladeracer]

its not irrelevant if olmate decides to believe this rubbish and goes out wounding roo's with a 17hmr but you are right no need to overcomplicate things

You probably missed this bit from my post..."...but they cull deer in the UK with the .17HMR. As long as you practice and take careful shots it'd be fine, but check if it's legal where you are. Some states have cartridge minimums for 'roo."

I thought I fairly effectively covered not wounding 'roos...

[bladeracer]

Fellas will you please stop recommending a tikka or a bruno mod 2. Old mate wants a high end classy rifle so he doesn't have to buy ever again.

Islander you don't know it yet but you REALLY want to buy this package. It is everything you want for your small farm/hunting needs

https://www.buyusedguns.com.au/sauer-20 ... 11937.html

I still think the Brno Model 2 is a much nicer rifle. If this thing is so good you'd never have to buy another rifle...why is it for sale?