Help me to choose best rifle in .223

[TassieTiger]

Just to show minor issues can and will happen to any and all manufacturers- Couple reviews show occasional issues with ejector and magazine springs...
https://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums ... r-problem/

[bigfellascott]

Just to show minor issues can and will happen to any and all manufacturers- Couple reviews show occasional issues with ejector and magazine springs...
https://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums ... r-problem/

Good onya now ol mate will be all confused again lol

[Islander7]

Yes, sorry, I should have explained better. They don't swap barrels, but you can order the Jagdmatch barreled action and ask if they can put it in another stock - it will fit the other stocks. Forgive me if they don't do this anymore, but they have done it in the past.

No problems I would be absolutely happy to pay extra for Jagdmatch barreled action with american sporter stock... I don't think they do it any more, as the guy over the phone didn't mention anything, when I said I'd love to have heavy barrell but with american style stock, he said it wasn't an option.

Anyway, thanks guys for everything. Just put a deposit for Weihrauch HW66 Production in 22.Hornet, with direct trigger (supplied with 2 springs for different pull weight options). Will have to wait 28 days though to get it (permit to acquire application).

All recommendations for scopes are now welcome

[SCJ429]

Here we go, another 11 pages.

I'll bite, Nightforce NSX 8 - 32 x 56.

[Sergeant Hartman]

I waz gonna say nightforce as well. ..but March be good as well

[Islander7]

Here we go, another 11 pages.

I'll bite, Nightforce NSX 8 - 32 x 56.

Ideally, I'd love to stay within $1500 for the scope +/- $300

I mean, I can raise my budget, but don't see a need. As an ex-professional photographer, with the collection of L-lenses of well over $10k, I understand that things can get very pricey very quickly for the glass, if you don't put a limit to your budget. I'm after high quality 'golden middle', my psychological budget ~1500, with 1800 being absolute max.

In this price range are all the scopes more or less equal, and I should choose what I like more? Or some are still clearly better than others?

[TassieTiger]

Scope...wait - what kind of shooting again ? Lol.
I’ll stick with my original rec - Leupold 6.5-20/40 or similar. Brand new will just scrape in.
OR - one from left of field...ATN x sight night vision 5-20.

[Flyer]

Any idea what range you'll be shooting at?

Will you be shooting in low light (dawn, dusk) or spotlighting at night?

Does weight bother you? Will you be lugging the rifle around much?

For $1800 I'd buy this: Swarovski Z5 3.5-18X44 BRX

You probably won't find lighter, clearer or sharper with a wide field of view for the money. Lifetime warranty and 3.5-18x zoom should cover everything. You probably aren't going to be shooting much past 200m with a 22 hornet anyway. I have two Z5s - both 5-25x52mm - and had a 3.5-18x44mm BRX (same as above) which I'm now kicking myself for selling. I didn't think I needed the extra scope at the time, but as is usually the case with rifles, you always end up buying one more . . .

[SCJ429]

I have not regretted any of my Nightforce purchases. A NXS 22x may be within budget.

[bigfellascott]

You’ll need a spotting scope as well - I recommend one of the high end swaros so you can spot the rabbits @ 70-100m away.

[SCJ429]

Good thinking BFS, and some binos with a built in range finder, Leica is the only way to go.

[Sergeant Hartman]

What about the rangefinder?

There is one i can't ferment brands that used Bluetooth to strandetransfer data from rangefinder to the scope...and a phone app to work out what to set the scope to.

[Islander7]

I've got a pair of Nikon monarch binoculars, that I'm going to use as a 'spotting scope' for now, will see how they work for me.

100-150m range, max 200. Yes, plan to shoot at dusk/dawn most often.
Definitely no night/spotlight.

[SCJ429]

Scope...wait - what kind of shooting again ? Lol.
I’ll stick with my original rec - Leupold 6.5-20/40 or similar. Brand new will just scrape in.
OR - one from left of field...ATN x sight night vision 5-20.

I saw a ATN at the range and had a look. I was surprised that you could not make out 30 cal bullet holes at 100 metres. I am not sure I could recommend them. The guy was excited to tell me that the images could be Bluetooth to your phone.

[marksman]

Scope...wait - what kind of shooting again ? Lol.
I’ll stick with my original rec - Leupold 6.5-20/40 or similar. Brand new will just scrape in.
OR - one from left of field...ATN x sight night vision 5-20.

I saw a ATN at the range and had a look. I was surprised that you could not make out 30 cal bullet holes at 100 metres. I am not sure I could recommend them. The guy was excited to tell me that the images could be Bluetooth to your phone.

I bought one and could not get rid of it quick enough
I should say in fairness that IMO they do have a place but it is on a rem 7600 type rifle with a tactical adjustable stock
www.opticsplanet.com/advanced-technolog ... stock.html
in a 30-06 or 35 whelen shot at close distances when poaching

[SCJ429]

What are they like at night? I thought they might be rubbish during the day but OK at night.

[TassieTiger]

Yeah I always thought they were a bit of a gimmick but might provide something out of the ordinary at night...
Does raise an interesting problem for the govt who down here outlawed hunting with a spotlight (unless granted a permit) - but don’t think they thought ahead for nightvision lol.
I’m surprised to hear they can’t see .3 at 100m though - that’s worse than I expected by a fair margin...

I think the idea is to use the buttons on the top of the scope, to fly a drone down to the target, snap a pic and then return to owner...I think

[Islander7]

You probably won't find lighter, clearer or sharper with a wide field of view for the money. Lifetime warranty and 3.5-18x zoom should cover everything. You probably aren't going to be shooting much past 200m with a 22 hornet anyway. I have two Z5s - both 5-25x52mm - and had a 3.5-18x44mm BRX (same as above) which I'm now kicking myself for selling. I didn't think I needed the extra scope at the time, but as is usually the case with rifles, you always end up buying one more . . .

Since I'll be shooting in low light situation, will it be worth for me to go 52mm over 44mm? What sort of difference in low-light situation should I expect? Will 52mm just allow me 5min extra hunting at dusk, or more?? Also, is the extra weight of larger scope realy that noticable?

I'm looking at that Swaro you recommended and about to buy one, but have concerns, maybe I should go 52mm...

[Flyer]

That's a decent enough question, but the 3.5-18 has a 2.44mm exit pupil (44mm divided by 18x) and the 5-25 has a 2.08mm exit pupil which means the 18x would probably look brighter at maximum magnification than the 25x. But at 18x, yes the 5-25 will be brighter (2.89mm exit pupil).

Exit pupil is the size of the image projected on to your eye (pupil).

You won't have any trouble using a 3.5-18x44 Swaro at dusk/dawn. So it really comes down to:

Range - 3.5x would be handier than 5x at closer ranges - especially for spotting things on the move
Price - about $200 difference
Weight/size - only 1.5oz difference

I will say the 18x is easier to look through in the field and is not that far behind the 25x at 200m (I can see 223 bullet holes in targets at 200m with the 25x always, and with 18x mostly on a good day).

Personally, I think the 3.5-18 is better suited to a 22 hornet. A little more compact, a little lower on the barrel and a slightly more usable range, especially as most of your shots will likely be 50-100m or so.

[Islander7]

Flyer, Thanks mate, very detailed answer!

[marksman]

What are they like at night? I thought they might be rubbish during the day but OK at night.

we would have another 13 pages just to explain the pro's and cons of this scope
its very grainy in day and night even with all the tweaks and patches, it does have a place but expectations should not be very high mainly because they should make a better just night vision scope to fit a normal size hunting rifle that has a normal size stock not an ar platform style adjustable short stock thats used in the US, it's really hard to make a day night vision camera, you can make either better than trying to make both in one fit, the guys you see on utube from the US are only shooting at no more than 50, there is a Victorian fox shooter who makes the scope look pretty good but he is one of there salesman, he shoots a tikka 204 and as I said he makes it look very good but I recon he's cut the stock and has very short arms
understand that this is a night vision camera adapted to fit a rifle with a very short stock

[SCJ429]

In my limited experience with European glass I have found they are very bright, Europeans do a lot of low light shooting but not allowed to spotlight. They value very bright glass. Scopes like Khales, S&B and Swarovski are very good in this respect. That said it is hard to make up what a 56 mm lens can do compared to a 40 at the same magnification.

[bladeracer]

If I buy used from interstate, how does it usually work? do I just trust the seller in regards to the rifle condition etc, or do I request some sort of 'gunsmiths report' (if such thing exists)?

Thanks Flyer, I've never heard of that rifle before, will check it out!

It has to come from a dealer anyway. Most people advertising a rifle already have a dealer they plan to use to send it. That dealer should be able to give you an idea of the condition and value of the firearm.

[SCJ429]

What are they like at night? I thought they might be rubbish during the day but OK at night.

we would have another 13 pages just to explain the pro's and cons of this scope
its very grainy in day and night even with all the tweaks and patches, it does have a place but expectations should not be very high mainly because they should make a better just night vision scope to fit a normal size hunting rifle that has a normal size stock not an ar platform style adjustable short stock thats used in the US, it's really hard to make a day night vision camera, you can make either better than trying to make both in one fit, the guys you see on utube from the US are only shooting at no more than 50, there is a Victorian fox shooter who makes the scope look pretty good but he is one of there salesman, he shoots a tikka 204 and as I said he makes it look very good but I recon he's cut the stock and has very short arms
understand that this is a night vision camera adapted to fit a rifle with a very short stock

Thanks for that, I was surprised that you don't look through the optics but view a digital image. I thought the night vision might make up for the daytime performance. You need to start a thread about your experiences. I am sure others would be interested.

[bigfellascott]

The night vision I've used (think it was an ATN of some sort but don't hold me too it) was horrible to use, it left me with blindness for a good minute or so after looking through it, the pic was grainy and it was bloody hard to find the animal in the bloody thing, no way known I'd pay around the 2k for one, as for euro glass being brighter well a lot of things come into whether that's true or not. I've looked through a mates Habatchi swaro (think it was 3-9x36) and honestly it wasn't any brighter than my 4x Jap tasco and wasn't as bright as my 3-9x50 Nikon prostaff, same went for his Zeiss conquest in 4-14x44 I think it was, that thing was bloody woeful compared to my Nikon and Tasco, it was hardly useable on the higher mag range.

I've compared a lot of my cheaper scopes to a lot of different Euro scopes (some extremely expensive) and honestly in the field in hunting situations there was SFA diff really, I've compared them in different light conditions side by side etc just to see what difference spending $2k plus more on the scopes I was comparing them against and it left me wondering what the hell all the fuss was about to be honest.

Even the people who owned then were really starting to wonder! Brightness was compareable to those I tested side by side, what I noticed was a slight increase in clarity but it was that insignificant it was puzzling to me and those who owned them and my mates mates Leupold (cant remember the particular model now) didn't have the clarity/definition of the Nikon I was looking through side by side at some grassy weeds (the Nikon showed more definition for whatever reason) got me fooked why when it was about 1/3 the price.

As for the Magnification, those that are suggesting 18-25x are halfwits, this is a hunting rifle not some range queens outfit FFS! Who can't shoot a bunny in the head at 200m with half that mag and not have to stuff around with parralax etc, way over scoped IMHO, it's a 22 hornet FFS not something thats going to be used at 500m at a range on paper!

[Flyer]

Mate, if you can't see the difference in glass between a Z5 and a Nikon, then I'm not sure what to say. I've owned a lot of different scopes - Weaver, Nikon, Leupold - and looked through a whole lot more - all the ones you've list - and the difference between a good scope and an average scope is much more than "brightness". There's resolution, clarity, chromatic aberration, dispersion, vignetting, field of view, smoothness of operation, tracking and repeatability, robustness, water proofing, dust proofing, eye relief stability, parallax, weight, warranty . . . the list goes on. Of course a 36mm objective isn't going to be as bright as a 50mm!

The Habicht is an old scope equivalent to a Z3 - the glass isn't comparable to a Z5.

You don't have to mess with parallax in the field - you can set it to 100m and be done with it. Or, if you have time, you can use it as a rough range meter. If you spend a lot of time behind a scope, parallax adjustment is a godsend - stops you going blind! (I'm only half joking)

And what is wrong with a 3.5-18x scope on a 22 hornet? I've got a 5-25 on a 223 and I use it all the time - because I can. You can always dial down a bigger scope - you can't dial up a small one . . .

The guy wants one nice rifle and one nice scope to put on it. I've owned cheap scopes and mid-prices scopes and I'm pretty much done with them. I've got a great Weaver Grand Slam 4-16x44 on my 17hmr which I reckon is one of the best scopes in its price range - excellent Japanese glass, built like a tank, bright and focuses down to 25y - but next to my Swaro, there's no comparison.

Everyone who looks through the Weaver can't believe how clear and bright it is. Then they look through the Swaro and they know why it costs 2-3 times the price.

Each to his own, mate, but in much of life, you get what you pay for.

[Islander7]

How critical/important is it to choose the right reticle? Should I care at all for my needs (100-200m max range)?

I just watched a video on youtube on how to use mil-dot reticles, looks very easy, cool and not overly complex (that's probably the reticle I would prefer as a complete noob), however, what are other types for?

I found this used scope with BRH reticle, looks like a good deal, anyone can tell me why I should't buy it?

https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=141091

P.s. Do I get it right, that normal post can be used for the scope, without the need to go through firearm shop?

P.P.S if buying second hand, is lifetime warranty transferrable? I've heard it is for Leupold, and that you don't even need to have original receipt etc... Is it same for Swaro and other main players?

[Arcwolf]

Excellent read as im looking for my first rifle i learnt plenty from everyone, Thanks!

[knowsnothin]

Hi Islander . Good choice with the weihrauch.
Don't overthink the reticle choice. For the Hornet a plain reticle will be fine. Have a look at the trajectory of a 45 gn bullet from the hornet. you are going to be +/- 2 inches out to 150meters. You might just want some hash marks to estimate holdover but don't worry about long range recticles.

all the companies will have their warranty policies online. Swaro is 10 years transferable i think.

and dont blow the budget on a scope. someone has opened a book on you getting a second rifle and i need you to have enough cashflow in about 3 months time. got it?

[TassieTiger]

Haha - absolute gold!!! Nice MM. needed a laff.