JimTom wrote:I have a creed, I use Lap brass and load with 2209. Don’t have a chrono though.
Not sure that I’d be keen just to prove a point for the Manbun haters though.
SCJ429 wrote:Not looking to go to the point of failure but a safe pressure before the bolt gets tight. Do you know anyone with a chrono?
marksman wrote:JimTom wrote:I have a creed, I use Lap brass and load with 2209. Don’t have a chrono though.
Not sure that I’d be keen just to prove a point for the Manbun haters though.
dont worry about the manbun haters, but owning a swede and a 6.5x284 I'd like to see what she can do myself
Flyer wrote:Can you run similar pressures though? It's not just the barrelled action but the brass that also determines pressure.
This guy loaded 2gr over book and got close to 2800fps in a 22" sporter barrel using 2209 and 143 ELD-X with no pressure signs in Starline small primer brass. Other powders are faster, like RL17 and Superperformance, so there's a lot of velocity to be had out of the Creedmoor if you push it with the right brass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0gQCmnYmHU
Quite a few guys are getting 2850-2950fps from 140-143gr bullets out of 26" barrels, too, if you look around.
I'm not saying the Swede isn't faster in a modern action, but I am saying modern brass can push the Creedmoor very close to modern Swede territory.
bladeracer wrote:If I want more velocity I grab a different rifle. I'm quite happy to load them comfortably for accuracy without being concerned about velocity.
Flyer wrote:It's all relative, isn't it?
A 22-250 will burn barrels faster than a 243 which will burn barrels faster than a 260 which will burn barrels faster than a 7-08 which will burn barrels faster than a 308 etc, all running similar pressures.
So by your logic - and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm going by this post . . .bladeracer wrote:If I want more velocity I grab a different rifle. I'm quite happy to load them comfortably for accuracy without being concerned about velocity.
. . . You would rather grab a barrel-burning calibre to go faster than explore the rifle you already have?
I'm not sure I get it.
The Creedmoor was designed from the start for long-range competition. It will easily handle higher pressures than most 6.5x55 and other cartridges due to its steep shoulder, thicker brass, short action and small primer pockets. Creedmoor chamber tolerances are also a lot tighter than other SAAMI spec cartridges - especially military based ones such as 6.5x55 - so they don't work the brass as much, and there is a lot less difference in case capacity between full-length and neck-sized brass.
What I'm saying is, why would you go to an inferior (in terms of expected barrel life) cartridge to get more velocity when you can use the Creedmoor towards its full potential . . . and still have better barrel life than a 243?
The 6.5CM burns less powder for the same velocity as the 260 and 6.5x55 - which are both going to burn barrels faster than the CM. So what's not to like?
Cal-ApeR wrote:Thanks Cooper & Flyer. Much the same thought process here to what you're both thinking. I'll mull out over some more but think I'm going to lean towards the creedmoor.
Btw- both great groups. What were you Gents shooting out of?
bladeracer wrote:My use of the word velocity was a poor choice, energy would be more precise. If the rifle I'm using won't achieve my goal without having to run it at the ragged edge, I'll use a different rifle or cartridge that will provide the result at lower pressures. That cartridge won't be the .22-250 as it does nothing for me at all. If I'm shooting my 6.5x50mm and it's not giving me the result I want, then I'll try a 6.5x55mm, 6.5x58mm, 6.5-06, etc, and if I still can't get where I'm going with a 6.5mm bullet, then 7mmRemMag, .300WinMag and so on, until I'm happy with the result. Or, more likely well before that point, I'll re-examine the goal to see if there is simply a more-effective way of reaching it altogether, like learning to stalk a hundred meters closer to my target, or learning to read the wind better rather than rely on more velocity. I don't see any genuine reason to push any rifle into the realm of barrel-burning, unless your goal is the bragging rights of burning out a barrel in the least number of shots. I guess if you only have one rifle, and you need to get the absolute maximum out of it, then you have to weigh the damage you're doing against the result you're getting. But I see no positive value in simply trying to drastically reduce the life of your firearm. Choose something that is more realistically able to achieve your needs. Only one of my firearms (.204) is loaded even close to factory levels, but still well short of case-damaging pressures, everything else runs at significantly lower pressures. Even if I owned a barrel-burner, I'd be running it at reduced pressures anyway. The reason I asked about being able to run longer rounds is because it reduces the pressures for the same velocities. It's also why I really like using high-BC bullets, they hit harder but with lower velocities/pressures.
In these "comparison" discussions it seems to invariably come down to how much velocity a particular cartridge can achieve over others. I see it and just wonder, who cares what velocity it might be possible to push any of them. What matters to me is which one is more consistently accurate, or even more importantly, easier to build accurate loads for. I don't want a rifle like a two-stroke Grand Prix motorcycle that needs to be rebuilt and tuned for each specific circuit, on each day, for each race. I want a "four-stroke" rifle that does the job every time I take it out, regardless of the conditions, and without wearing itself out.
My dealer is a huge 6.5mm fan, so he eventually got himself a .264WinMag. It took him quite a long time to nail down an accurate load, but as soon as he'd found it, the rifle reused to maintain it. He worked out that he had put 500rds through it to find this load, and had totally destroyed the throat. It cost him two-dollars worth of barrel for each of those shots. He rebarreled it with a 7mm (I think he said 7x57mm) and sold it on. He mainly shoots long-range cartridges, .338Lap, .300WinMag, and such so I'm guessing he knows about barrel burning.
Flyer wrote:I bought the 6.5CM because it will shoot anything from 90-160gr and do it efficiently in a short action (stiffer, weight-saving, shorter throw etc) and with a great choice of brass, projectiles and factory ammo. It's also an inherently accurate round.
If I shoot the barrel out, well I'll just get a new one - it's still cheaper than owning four different 6.5s!
Cal-ApeR wrote:Love it fellas. Thanks for all the info. Thinking I'll lean towards getting Howa mentioned in the original post. Price is good.
bladeracer wrote:Flyer wrote:I bought the 6.5CM because it will shoot anything from 90-160gr and do it efficiently in a short action (stiffer, weight-saving, shorter throw etc) and with a great choice of brass, projectiles and factory ammo. It's also an inherently accurate round.
If I shoot the barrel out, well I'll just get a new one - it's still cheaper than owning four different 6.5s!
The short action is the biggest advantage the Creedmoor offers, in my opinion, and it's a very valid one. I think all 6.5mm chamberings offer excellent inherent accuracy simply because they use 6.5mm bullets.
A good point well made
bigrich wrote:me personally if i get another 6.5 it'll be a 6.5-06 . they all have their uses . mind you , a sako barvarian ( no open sights ) in 6.5x55 would really float my boat . i think the 6.5 family is a good do-all for most australian game, AND lends itself to target shooting quite readily . but i don't need to convince the posters on this topic do i ? here's my 6.5x55 hunting loads ,and yes, the photo's are on their side the first two shots just about go through the same hole, the third is the flyer. after the first two shots most game has run off anyway
Flyer wrote:I've got a standard Sako A7 Roughtech Pro. I even managed to talk Jim Tom into buying one
The A7 Roughtech Pro and Range models have an alloy bedding block system fixed to an alloy X-frame in their synthetic stock, so they actually have a better bedding system than a Sako 85, IMO. They also top load - which I prefer over the Tikka's mag-load system - and come in different sized actions. The 24" fluted barrel is a mid-weight, so a little larger diameter than a standard sporter. Weights 3.4kg so is easy to carry around and very accurate.
Cal-ApeR wrote:Here I am taking about a howa and you guys have to rub it in with your sakos. I do agree, good kit and beautiful firearm. Out of my price range though.
Will report back here with what I do with regards to my purchase. Thanks for all the input. This thread lit up. I guess all you need to mention is creedmoor and people come out of the wood work.
Cal-ApeR wrote:Here I am taking about a howa and you guys have to rub it in with your sakos. I do agree, good kit and beautiful firearm. Out of my price range though.
Will report back here with what I do with regards to my purchase. Thanks for all the input. This thread lit up. I guess all you need to mention is creedmoor and people come out of the wood work.
Cal-ApeR wrote:The Howa is only $600. The A7 goes for considerably more. I look at one of those for my next toy in 2020. Ha.