Howa 6.5creed

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Re: Howa 6.5creed

Post by bigrich » 12 Jan 2019, 1:42 pm

Just forget about all the 6.5’s and get a 7x57 . If I had my time again I would get a quality rifle in this caliber . In a modern rifle it can exceed in accuracy and as a hunting round over a lot of the modern rounds. JMHO
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Re: Howa 6.5creed

Post by JimTom » 12 Jan 2019, 2:02 pm

I read an article just recently about a 7x57. Seemed like a good cartridge.
Don’t know a lot about it though. Do you have one mate?
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Re: Howa 6.5creed

Post by Cooper » 12 Jan 2019, 2:27 pm

I like Howa's and the 6.5 Creedmoor. Seems to be so many rifles chambered in the calibre now. doubt you would go too far wrong with the Howa. Pretty tempting at that price!
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Re: Howa 6.5creed

Post by JimTom » 12 Jan 2019, 2:57 pm

Yep that’s cheap for sure mate. Provided they shoot, which from all accounts on this forum they do.
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Re: Howa 6.5creed

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jan 2019, 4:07 pm

JimTom wrote:G'day mate

I am loading the 143 ELDX in my Creedmoor and have them loaded so they are a poofteenth of the lands. I haven't found any restrictions associated with the short action of the 6.5 Manbun and the 143 ELDX are a long projectile.
I am by no means saying it's any better than the 6.5x55. I was tossing up between the two, I did however opt for the Manbun for a number of reasons.
In saying that I would happily own a Swede.


I guess it comes down to whether the particular platform uses a short-action length magazine, if not then longer bullets would be an option. A short-action with a .2.800" mag length would be restrictive though. Of course, it's irrelevant if the chamber doesn't have the throat for longer bullets anyway.

6.5CM case length is 1.920" with overall length 2.825".
.308Win is 2.015" and 2.800".
The 143gn ELDX and 147gn ELDM are 1.440" long.

I can imagine there must be some shooters loading these things out well over three-inches overall.

As I said, I don't want to talk you out of the Creedmoor, as it's a fine modern cartridge. But it doesn't really offer anything that my current 6.5mm chamberings can offer so I haven't gotten around to getting one, yet. The Grendel design though is a little more "out there" so I just find it a more interesting choice for experimenting with.

Rough comparisons, but some tweaking can exceed these numbers by decent margins of course (particularly with some of the military loads):
6.5mm Creedmoor (case length 48.8mm) 140gn at 2650fps.
6.5x50mm 140gn at 2500fps.
6.5x52mm 140gn at 2200fps.
6.5x54R 140gn at 2200fps.
6.5x55mm 140gn at 2600fps.
6.5x58mm 140gn at 2500fps.

.260Rem (case length 51.5mm) 140gn at 2700fps.
6.5mm Grendell (case length 38.5mm) 140gn at 2350fps.

As you can see, the Grendel is a very short case but with still decent velocity.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I posted this comparison to show the 6.5mm chamberings I have (in bold) to explain why I haven't bothered getting the Creedmoor yet, not to try to make any one of them appear better than the rest.
Last edited by bladeracer on 12 Jan 2019, 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Howa 6.5creed

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jan 2019, 4:10 pm

JimTom wrote:I read an article just recently about a 7x57. Seemed like a good cartridge.
Don’t know a lot about it though. Do you have one mate?


My dealer loves 7x57mm, in an old Mauser Sporting Rifle.
It's virtually identical to 7mm-08 in ballistics.
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Re: Howa 6.5creed

Post by Archie » 12 Jan 2019, 4:23 pm

I’ll just say the same thing I always thing about Howas regardless of caliber, they’re good rifles for the money but whoever designed that mag release should be hung.
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Re: Howa 6.5creed

Post by SCJ429 » 12 Jan 2019, 5:03 pm

bladeracer wrote:
JimTom wrote:G'day mate

Rough comparisons, but some tweaking can exceed these numbers by decent margins of course (particularly with some of the military loads):
6.5mm Creedmoor (case length 48.8mm) 140gn at 2650fps.
6.5x50mm 140gn at 2500fps.
6.5x52mm 140gn at 2200fps.
6.5x54R 140gn at 2200fps.
6.5x55mm 140gn at 2600fps.
6.5x58mm 140gn at 2500fps.
.260Rem (case length 51.5mm) 140gn at 2700fps.
6.5mm Grendell (case length 38.5mm) 140gn at 2350fps.
.


The poor old 6.5x55 Swede always gets sold short, I know you qualified this in your opening line. I feel it has to be said that the Swede can easily shoot a 140 grain projectile out of a modern action at 3,000 fps, giving it a considerable advantage over the 260 and CM.
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Re: Howa 6.5creed

Post by Flyer » 12 Jan 2019, 5:11 pm

I just looked up my load data and we chronoed the 143 ELD-X with 42.5gr of 2209 at 2710fps.

At the ADI/Hornady max recommended 41.5gr - which is Jim Tom's load - it was going 2650fps.

I haven't finished load development yet, so I still have 42.8 and 43.0 to go - maybe a little higher if I find a node - so there's potential for over 2750fps and the Lappy brass seems to handle it easily. That's in a new 24" barrel, so it might also get a little quicker as the barrel seasons.

OAL for the 143 ELD-X in my Sako is 2.932" and maximum mag length is 2.900", so I've been loading 2.890" or 0.042" off the lands.

The 143 ELD-X is 1.430" long - about as long as you're going to load in a Creedmoor, and longer than a Berger 140gr VLD (1.420"). That's plenty long enough for mag loading just about any bullet on the market. Anyone who's serious about bench rest or F-Class is going to single load anyway.

Creedmoor143ELDX123Scenar.jpg
Creedmoor143ELDX123Scenar.jpg (601.96 KiB) Viewed 279 times
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Re: Howa 6.5creed

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jan 2019, 5:51 pm

SCJ429 wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
JimTom wrote:G'day mate

Rough comparisons, but some tweaking can exceed these numbers by decent margins of course (particularly with some of the military loads):
6.5mm Creedmoor (case length 48.8mm) 140gn at 2650fps.
6.5x50mm 140gn at 2500fps.
6.5x52mm 140gn at 2200fps.
6.5x54R 140gn at 2200fps.
6.5x55mm 140gn at 2600fps.
6.5x58mm 140gn at 2500fps.
.260Rem (case length 51.5mm) 140gn at 2700fps.
6.5mm Grendell (case length 38.5mm) 140gn at 2350fps.
.


The poor old 6.5x55 Swede always gets sold short, I know you qualified this in your opening line. I feel it has to be said that the Swede can easily shoot a 140 grain projectile out of a modern action at 3,000 fps, giving it a considerable advantage over the 260 and CM.


Absolutely, with tweaking, any of these can significantly exceed those rough numbers. If you're chasing velocity of course, I don't bother myself. If I want more velocity I grab a different rifle. I'm quite happy to load them comfortably for accuracy without being concerned about velocity.
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Re: Howa 6.5creed

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jan 2019, 5:52 pm

Flyer wrote:I just looked up my load data and we chronoed the 143 ELD-X with 42.5gr of 2209 at 2710fps.

At the ADI/Hornady max recommended 41.5gr - which is Jim Tom's load - it was going 2650fps.

I haven't finished load development yet, so I still have 42.8 and 43.0 to go - maybe a little higher if I find a node - so there's potential for over 2750fps and the Lappy brass seems to handle it easily. That's in a new 24" barrel, so it might also get a little quicker as the barrel seasons.

OAL for the 143 ELD-X in my Sako is 2.932" and maximum mag length is 2.900", so I've been loading 2.890" or 0.042" off the lands.

The 143 ELD-X is 1.430" long - about as long as you're going to load in a Creedmoor, and longer than a Berger 140gr VLD (1.420"). That's plenty long enough for mag loading just about any bullet on the market. Anyone who's serious about bench rest or F-Class is going to single load anyway.

Creedmoor143ELDX123Scenar.jpg


I'm curious why you're chasing velocity - for what purpose?
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Re: Howa 6.5creed

Post by Flyer » 12 Jan 2019, 6:05 pm

I'm not really. My target load is 43.2gr of 2209 behind a 123gr Lapua Scenar for 2815fps. I have found good accuracy at 44.2gr of 2209 for 2880fps and have chronoed 45.2gr at 2960fps, but the reduced load is more accurate and plenty fast enough for shooting offhand out to 200m, which is what I mainly use it for.

With the 143gr ELD-X, I have found best accuracy at 41.8gr and good accuracy at 42.6gr, but nothing has really jumped out at me yet. I started at 41gr and loaded to 43gr, but haven't tried the 42.8 and 43.0gr loads yet. The book data seems to be pretty conservative compared to lots of other load data online, and I'm finding that's true with the small primer Lapua brass.
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Re: Howa 6.5creed

Post by Bill » 12 Jan 2019, 6:29 pm

JimTom wrote:
SCJ429 wrote:How fast can a CM sling a 143 ELDX?


Mate I don’t chrono anything however from the loading tables I expect that I am getting just under 2700fps out of them, so about the same or a tiny bit quicker thank the Swede with a couple of grains less powder.


quicker than a swede lol Ive owned 3 and all did well over 2700fps with a 140gr.

my last 260rem with a 21inch tube safely pushed 140gr Lapua's to 2840fps, now thats bit more than the Creedmore gets.

there is no such thing as a free lunch with the creedmore...ya gunna either need a long tube (heavier) or really push the PSI to keep up with the 260 and 6.5 swede.
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Re: Howa 6.5creed

Post by Bill » 12 Jan 2019, 6:30 pm

bigrich wrote:Just forget about all the 6.5’s and get a 7x57 . If I had my time again I would get a quality rifle in this caliber . In a modern rifle it can exceed in accuracy and as a hunting round over a lot of the modern rounds. JMHO


slick feeding and the ability to shoot 120-195gr, I suspect your probably right.
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Re: Howa 6.5creed

Post by SCJ429 » 12 Jan 2019, 6:51 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Creedmoor143ELDX123Scenar.jpg


I'm curious why you're chasing velocity - for what purpose?[/quote]

I like to push a case a little to exploit its potential, better ballistics, less wind drift, better terminal performance. I wouldn't buy a 22/250 and then shoot it at 223 speeds. People have been chasing speed since Adam was a boy. But I am sure I am not telling an experienced bloke like you anything you don't already know.
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Re: Howa 6.5creed

Post by Flyer » 12 Jan 2019, 6:59 pm

I think it's worth mentioning the small primer Lapua cases are thick with lots of metal around the primer pockets and some long-range competition shooters are pushing the Creedmoor up to and over 64,000psi. I don't want a barrel burner, but I wouldn't mind a hunting load with a bit of "oomph". I bought the 6.5CM to replace a 243 because I figured the 6.5 could do everything the 243 could do with similar recoil, longer barrel life and also encroach into 308 territory in terms of downrange energy. I wanted a mid-ranged centrefire that could "do everything". I don't think there's anything a 6.5 couldn't account for in the Aussie bush.
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Re: Howa 6.5creed

Post by bigrich » 12 Jan 2019, 9:11 pm

Bill wrote:
JimTom wrote:
SCJ429 wrote:How fast can a CM sling a 143 ELDX?


Mate I don’t chrono anything however from the loading tables I expect that I am getting just under 2700fps out of them, so about the same or a tiny bit quicker thank the Swede with a couple of grains less powder.


quicker than a swede lol Ive owned 3 and all did well over 2700fps with a 140gr.

my last 260rem with a 21inch tube safely pushed 140gr Lapua's to 2840fps, now thats bit more than the Creedmore gets.

there is no such thing as a free lunch with the creedmore...ya gunna either need a long tube (heavier) or really push the PSI to keep up with the 260 and 6.5 swede.


i played with my winchester 70 that's in 6.5x55, 120 nosler BT's and 49 gn of reloader 22 got me 2950 FPS over the crono and three shots one hole accuracy at 100. it's silly accurate and the bullet performance would be spectacular , but i'm not comfortable pushing that sort of velocity and making a barrel burner. i've pulled it back to 2750 FPS with 47 gn of reloader and 125 nosler partitions that will do .6" at 100 . better general purpose bullet for my uses. bear in mind this is a wood stocked sporting rifle . not a heavy barreled target job i've mostly shot goat with the off chance of deer or pig and this is more than enough . i have used 140 sst's and 140 partitions at 2750 . accuracy has been good and expansion on goat at distance was good with the 140 sst's 46.5 gn of RE22 works with the 140's for me . the funny thing is some of these projectiles like jump, some don't .if i didn't like this rifle so much i would have a 7x57 . after a bit of digging and a article i read in "american rifleman " it really is a great all time caliber . i feel this caliber is due for a resurgance. check it out

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Re: Howa 6.5creed

Post by JimTom » 12 Jan 2019, 9:25 pm

Bill wrote:
JimTom wrote:
SCJ429 wrote:How fast can a CM sling a 143 ELDX?


Mate I don’t chrono anything however from the loading tables I expect that I am getting just under 2700fps out of them, so about the same or a tiny bit quicker thank the Swede with a couple of grains less powder.


quicker than a swede lol Ive owned 3 and all did well over 2700fps with a 140gr.

my last 260rem with a 21inch tube safely pushed 140gr Lapua's to 2840fps, now thats bit more than the Creedmore gets.

there is no such thing as a free lunch with the creedmore...ya gunna either need a long tube (heavier) or really push the PSI to keep up with the 260 and 6.5 swede.


Yes mate maybe your Swede and .260 do do over 2700fps, lol, like I said, I am just going off the loading tables. No doubt a Creedmoor could do the same. I don’t load outside the recommended loads of the manufacturers data, so I wouldn’t really know, lol, lol.
Wasn’t having a shot at the Swede mate, couldn’t care less, not into worrying about which rifle had the biggest cock.lol, lol, lol.
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