New and getting started.

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New and getting started.

Post by Austwave » 11 Mar 2019, 11:39 am

Hey guys a bit new to the hunting game, well its been a long time and was never really into it when younger more of a fisherman.
Just got my NSW licence sorted and have put a deposit on a Tikka light 223 in 1:8. The PTA is in believe its up to 6 week processing time in NSW.
A bit unsure of a scope was originally looking at a Leapold Vx3 in 3.5-10 X 40 but a couple of mates have told me to go higher mag.
I am planning to be hunting in the south of the state as i'm from down that way and have relatives down there most of the land as I recollect is fairly heavily scrubbed. so thought the 10X would be adequate.
Looking to make my way up to deer eventually so will be after a suitable calibre later either 270, 308 or 7mm 08 but thought the 223 was a better option to start with for foxes cats and maybe the odd goats while i get up to speed.
Looking to get my R licence to give me a few more options.
Looking for to having some input into the site and obtaining some wisdom from the crew.

Regards
Craig
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Re: New and getting started.

Post by Archie » 11 Mar 2019, 12:35 pm

It depends a little on what you mean by scrub, but, rule of thumb - do not go to a higher mag. I honestly reckon anything over 10 times on a hunting rifle is just goading you into shots you shouldn't take. If you're picking a mountain goat off a ridgeline a kilometre away, maybe. But I doubt it.

Really tho, the problem is not how high your scope goes, its that as your upper magnification goes up then usually your lower end magnification goes up as well (outside of ridiculously expensive high end scopes). You are usually trying to put a hole in an area around the size of a saucer, not nail a fly, and if the mag is too high in scrub, one of two things will happen:

1/ You'll see the animal, raise the rifle to your shoulder and not be able to find the animal because your field of view is too small an angle and your natural point of aim wasn't absolutely dead on. And in the scrub you'll just get a circle full of leaves and by the time you figure out where the thing is, its gone.
2/ Up close, you'll see the animal, raise the rifle to your shoulder and if you do get lucky and find the animal you will get a circle full of fur and not be able to tell which bit you are aiming at. Makes for poor shot placement.

I reckon you'll spend much more time with the scope turned to 3.5 than 10. I usually have regretted getting higher mag scopes. I have a 4x12 on a varmint rifle that works well but its a varmint rifle. I have a 3.5 x 10 on a 243 that is alright, just, but I wish could go lower, and 3-9 scope on a deer rifle that I should have saved money on and got something with a lower bound closer to 1 or 2, and I'd have had more success if I had done.

The less important reason, and this varies between people, is that some people shoot more accurately at lower magnifications because the inevitable wobble doesn't put them off.
Last edited by Archie on 11 Mar 2019, 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New and getting started.

Post by SCJ429 » 11 Mar 2019, 12:37 pm

Good work starting with a 223, ammo is cheap and you need to practice. Get some shooting sticks or a bipod and practice lying down or seated. You will find the 10x scope has plenty of magnification but if you buy one with more magnification you can always wind it back if you find it hard to locate your target. Good luck with your very accurate Tikka, well bought.
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Re: New and getting started.

Post by in2anity » 11 Mar 2019, 12:40 pm

FWIW I like a compact 1-4x scope in the sticks! Save the high-powered stuff for the range.
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Re: New and getting started.

Post by Daddybang » 11 Mar 2019, 3:11 pm

Archie wrote:It depends a little on what you mean by scrub, but, rule of thumb - do not go to a higher mag. I honestly reckon anything over 10 times on a hunting rifle is just goading you into shots you shouldn't take. If you're picking a mountain goat off a ridgeline a kilometre away, maybe. But I doubt it.

Really tho, the problem is not how high your scope goes, its that as your upper magnification goes up then usually your lower end magnification goes up as well (outside of ridiculously expensive high end scopes). You are usually trying to put a hole in an area around the size of a saucer, not nail a fly, and if the mag is too high in scrub, one of two things will happen:

1/ You'll see the animal, raise the rifle to your shoulder and not be able to find the animal because your field of view is too small an angle and your natural point of aim wasn't absolutely dead on. And in the scrub you'll just get a circle full of leaves and by the time you figure out where the thing is, its gone.
2/ Up close, you'll see the animal, raise the rifle to your shoulder and if you do get lucky and find the animal you will get a circle full of fur and not be able to tell which bit you are aiming at. Makes for poor shot placement.

I reckon you'll spend much more time with the scope turned to 3.5 than 10. I usually have regretted getting higher mag scopes. I have a 4x12 on a varmint rifle that works well but its a varmint rifle. I have a 3.5 x 10 on a 243 that is alright, just, but I wish could go lower, and 3-9 scope on a deer rifle that I should have saved money on and got something with a lower bound closer to 1 or 2, and I'd have had more success if I had done.

The less important reason, and this varies between people, is that some people shoot more accurately at lower magnifications because the inevitable wobble doesn't put them off.


in2anity wrote:FWIW I like a compact 1-4x scope in the sticks! Save the high-powered stuff for the range.



Both of these▲▲▲▲▲ :thumbsup: :drinks:
I don't have anything over 3-9x and and never been in a situation in the scrub where I thought "I need more magnification". :thumbsup: :drinks:
This hard living ain't as easy as it used to be!!!
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Re: New and getting started.

Post by bigrich » 11 Mar 2019, 5:37 pm

on ya deer rifle you could look at a 2-7x33 leupold if your shots aren't over 200 . cheers
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Re: New and getting started.

Post by Oldbloke » 11 Mar 2019, 6:57 pm

3-9 is as high as you need to go for general hunting. Mine mostly sit on 3 or 4 mag. There is a lot to be said for the old 4 x 40 for general hunting. Goats/pigs/deer
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Re: New and getting started.

Post by TassieTiger » 11 Mar 2019, 7:17 pm

Daddybang wrote:
Archie wrote:It depends a little on what you mean by scrub, but, rule of thumb - do not go to a higher mag. I honestly reckon anything over 10 times on a hunting rifle is just goading you into shots you shouldn't take. If you're picking a mountain goat off a ridgeline a kilometre away, maybe. But I doubt it.

Really tho, the problem is not how high your scope goes, its that as your upper magnification goes up then usually your lower end magnification goes up as well (outside of ridiculously expensive high end scopes). You are usually trying to put a hole in an area around the size of a saucer, not nail a fly, and if the mag is too high in scrub, one of two things will happen:

1/ You'll see the animal, raise the rifle to your shoulder and not be able to find the animal because your field of view is too small an angle and your natural point of aim wasn't absolutely dead on. And in the scrub you'll just get a circle full of leaves and by the time you figure out where the thing is, its gone.
2/ Up close, you'll see the animal, raise the rifle to your shoulder and if you do get lucky and find the animal you will get a circle full of fur and not be able to tell which bit you are aiming at. Makes for poor shot placement.

I reckon you'll spend much more time with the scope turned to 3.5 than 10. I usually have regretted getting higher mag scopes. I have a 4x12 on a varmint rifle that works well but its a varmint rifle. I have a 3.5 x 10 on a 243 that is alright, just, but I wish could go lower, and 3-9 scope on a deer rifle that I should have saved money on and got something with a lower bound closer to 1 or 2, and I'd have had more success if I had done.

The less important reason, and this varies between people, is that some people shoot more accurately at lower magnifications because the inevitable wobble doesn't put them off.


in2anity wrote:FWIW I like a compact 1-4x scope in the sticks! Save the high-powered stuff for the range.



Both of these▲▲▲▲▲ :thumbsup: :drinks:
I don't have anything over 3-9x and and never been in a situation in the scrub where I thought "I need more magnification". :thumbsup: :drinks:


Could you headshot a rabbit at 200m with a 9x ?
Tikka .260 (custom)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 28’
Sauer 30-06
Howa 300 win mag.
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Re: New and getting started.

Post by Austwave » 11 Mar 2019, 7:37 pm

Thanks guys it seems like a bit of clarification on my initial thoughts.
Was looking at a CZ 455 in .22 as a bunny come plinking, practice rifle either that or a ruger american
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Re: New and getting started.

Post by GQshayne » 11 Mar 2019, 7:41 pm

I agree with comments above. For a rifle to be carried in the field, and used in close quarters, then lower magnification is king in my experience. Because of this, I have a 1-6 on my BLR for pigs and a 2-12 on my Tikka for longer range stuff. Unless I have a rest, I would not go past 4 power on either. A quick rest leaning on a still upright tree, putting fore-end hand on the trunk and holding the rifle in a bit of a bridge will see me use 6 power, but no more. Any magnification over this requires a good rest for me to use.

As Archie mentions above, target acquisition is much easier with lower magnification, as your field of view is greater. On a moving target in the bush, this is very important in my experience. I would not be going any higher than what you intend. If budget allows it, I would even try and get a 2 power at the low end. Different on a dedicated varmint rifle of course.
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Re: New and getting started.

Post by solarpak » 11 Mar 2019, 9:13 pm

Austwave,
some excellent tips from other forum users....
On a hunting rifle (like your 223 , 243, 308, 270 etc....) a good quality 3-9 , 2.5-10 or 4-12 is probably ideal with an objective lens diameter from 40-50mm. Whether you opt for a 1-inch or 30mm tube is up tp you .
Just buy something with a lifetime warranty which if something does go wrong, they will replace it no-hassles.....

For your 22 LR - a good fixed 6x is spot-on in my books!

Enjoy the sport !
CK
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Re: New and getting started.

Post by Bruiser64 » 11 Mar 2019, 11:45 pm

I have the Vx3i Leupold on my Tikka .243 and I have never wished for more magnification. I think it is a good all round choice, particularly on a hunting rifle that you will be carrying around in the bush. If you were doing long range varminting from a fixed position then there is an argument for more magnification. But if that isn’t you the extra dollars and weight aren’t worth it for a more powerful scope.
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Re: New and getting started.

Post by TassieTiger » 12 Mar 2019, 12:25 am

Austwave wrote:Thanks guys it seems like a bit of clarification on my initial thoughts.
Was looking at a CZ 455 in .22 as a bunny come plinking, practice rifle either that or a ruger american


Just throwing this out there as a possible;
Your tikka 223 will be able to shoot pretty light pills as well as heavy ones.
Perhaps in lieu of getting a .22 in the short term, look at getting quick release mounts and two similar but different scopes...?

I have watched a friend change scopes on his 222 (roo shooting to rabbit) and retain the same horizontal zero and one shot to recover his vertical. I was mightily impressed!
Tikka .260 (custom)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 28’
Sauer 30-06
Howa 300 win mag.
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Re: New and getting started.

Post by Daddybang » 12 Mar 2019, 9:25 am

Could you headshot a rabbit at 200m with a 9x ?[/quote]

Never had the opportunity to take a shot at anything at 200 in the type of country described by the op :D
However I can put rnds into the 80cent cans of diced tomatoes at that distance with the scope on the 243 set at 6x(see the reactivate target thread) so I'd be fairly confident.
:thumbsup: :drinks:


Austwave wrote:Thanks guys it seems like a bit of clarification on my initial thoughts.
Was looking at a CZ 455 in .22 as a bunny come plinking, practice rifle either that or a ruger american


A set 4 or 6 would be plenty. :thumbsup: :drinks:
This hard living ain't as easy as it used to be!!!
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Re: New and getting started.

Post by Stix » 12 Mar 2019, 9:27 am

Im a fan of more magnificatiin.
You can acquire scopes that are not heavy but offer greater high end magnificatiin....such as 3-15, 4-16 etc.
( i actually have a 2.5-15 but there is basically NO shift from 2.5X-3X)

The bulk & type of terrain you cover & the species you are mostly targeting, along with the shots you take will play a part in your decision.

I love chasing foxes n bunnies, with the occasional flurry on goats & the bulk of the terrain i cover is mostly open.
So the 4-16 on my walkabout is fine on goats in close quarters with both eyes open, & i can lay down & zoom right in on a bunny's head 250+ yds out.

Higher mag will also benefit you when testing ammo & trying to shoot tighter groups/target shooting.

There isnt a wrong answer...but there are many opinions.

:drinks:
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Re: New and getting started.

Post by Daddybang » 12 Mar 2019, 9:39 am

Stix wrote:I

The bulk & type of terrain you cover & the species you are mostly targeting, along with the shots you take will play a part in your decision.
:drinks:


This▲▲▲▲ :thumbsup:
I think most of us read "heavily scrubbed" and based our advice accordingly. :drinks:
As ya say stix no right or wrong just advice and opinions
:D :drinks:
This hard living ain't as easy as it used to be!!!
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Re: New and getting started.

Post by Stix » 12 Mar 2019, 10:04 am

Daddybang wrote:
Stix wrote:I

The bulk & type of terrain you cover & the species you are mostly targeting, along with the shots you take will play a part in your decision.
:drinks:


This▲▲▲▲ :thumbsup:
I think most of us read "heavily scrubbed" and based our advice accordingly. :drinks:
As ya say stix no right or wrong just advice and opinions
:D :drinks:


Yep for sure...
Just thought id mention my like for higher mag though...
Reason being, "heavily scrubbed" areas, like opinions, can differ greatly.

Ones definition of heavy scrub can differ too...there are areas of scrub that are so heavy you'd be better served to hunt with a rock in each hand...
While there are slso heavily scrubbed (wooded) eucalypt forest type terrain with sections of heavy undergrowth where you may have to thread a needle so to speak--i mean 150 yd shots with only head or shouldor showing through trunks...in this instance higher mag helps me to shoot tighter & to see any branches etc that may be in the flight path...

I head shot a goat off my knee couple years ago in a gorge--very heavily wooded & steep terrain...
It was facing the other way & i could only see the goats head & part of its bum...
I dont like the texas heart shot so i head shot it at 120 yds sitting down resting on my knee...absolutely NO WAY id have the confidence for that shot on 4x-6x...
The extra mag (i took the shot on 16x) also showed how much the heart was racing so i could take a min to calm the hell down & get an effective shot away... :lol:
:drinks:
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Re: New and getting started.

Post by GQshayne » 12 Mar 2019, 7:48 pm

Stix wrote:
I head shot a goat off my knee couple years ago in a gorge--very heavily wooded & steep terrain...
It was facing the other way & i could only see the goats head & part of its bum...
I dont like the texas heart shot so i head shot it at 120 yds sitting down resting on my knee...absolutely NO WAY id have the confidence for that shot on 4x-6x...
The extra mag (i took the shot on 16x) also showed how much the heart was racing so i could take a min to calm the hell down & get an effective shot away... :lol:
:drinks:


Perfectly example of how each of us can prefer something different. The is no way I would attempt that shot on anything more than 6. Most probably 4 or 5 would be about right with a hasty rest.

Field of view is the biggest factor for me in the tight scrub, especially when after pigs. I reckon on many occasions you get two seconds for a shot, no longer. When hunting like this, I like to have a big field of view in the scope, and anything more than 2 power is a hindrance. My 1-6 is better than my old 2-7 in this regard.
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